wateroftyne Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hi all I've just picked up my trusty Promethean head up from the Tech chap, after I thought it had developed a fault. (It turns out the amp is fine - it was a dodgy speaker cable). Anyway, while trying to recreate the problem he ran various tests, and told me it puts out 330w into 4ohm and 120w into 8ohm. ...this is an amp that's marketed as 500w. Now, I have no problems with the output of the amp - it's very loud, and Mr. Tech was very impressed with it. But, assuming most class-D manufacturers are doing what TC do, i.e. being economical with the truth, isn't it time they followed EBS's lead, and stopped inflating the ratings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think I saw a review of the orange terror that had it putting out a little over the stated watts, I'll see if I can find it again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1346452806' post='1789572'] I think I saw a review of the orange terror that had it putting out a little over the stated watts, I'll see if I can find it again... [/quote] I can believe this, mine was insanely loud even into an 8ohm load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 How hard is it to actually measure the output of an amp? I thought you had to have an acoustic chamber and a hugely accurate reference tone and all that malarkey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1346452547' post='1789570'] But, assuming most class-D manufacturers are doing what TC do, i.e. being economical with the truth, isn't it time they followed EBS's lead, and stopped inflating the ratings? [/quote] Yes. Completely agree. I have stopped worrying about claimed power. If it does the job then it does the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 A number of watts alone is a bit meaningless without a bandwidth and a THD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1346452806' post='1789572'] I think I saw a review of the orange terror that had it putting out a little over the stated watts, I'll see if I can find it again... [/quote] 503 at 8 ohm and about 525 at 4 ohm, if i remember correctly. Though knowing me i'll be pretty far away with that. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1346460135' post='1789638'] 503 at 8 ohm and about 525 at 4 ohm, if i remember correctly. Though knowing me i'll be pretty far away with that. Liam [/quote] Cheers for that, I can't find the review for looking at the mo, was in a PDF issue of some online bass mag if I remember right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1346452547' post='1789570'] Hi all I've just picked up my trusty Promethean head up from the Tech chap, after I thought it had developed a fault. (It turns out the amp is fine - it was a dodgy speaker cable). Anyway, while trying to recreate the problem he ran various tests, and told me it puts out 330w into 4ohm and 120w into 8ohm. ...this is an amp that's marketed as 500w. Now, I have no problems with the output of the amp - it's very loud, and Mr. Tech was very impressed with it. But, assuming most class-D manufacturers are doing what TC do, i.e. being economical with the truth, isn't it time they followed EBS's lead, and stopped inflating the ratings? [/quote] It does make you wonder how accurate the figures given by manufacturers are, and I'm sure 'spec inflation' goes on a lot more than we think. Those figures are a little strange though - 330w at 4 ohms but only 120w at 8 ohms? I'm not tech savvy enough to know if that could be correct, but I was under the impression that even theoretically you can only double the wattage when the impedance is halved. I don't suppose it's possible there is some kind of fault with the amp that your tech has missed is there, or that he's made an error in testing the output? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 All the figures I have heard the 8 ohm load is usually more than half of the 4 ohm, Mt Genz 6.0 is 600watts at 4 and 375 at 8 for example (allegedly) and the 3.0 300 at 4 ohms, 175 at 8 for example. Sounds wrong to me too although your point is still valid but as its almost impossible to do anything about it I will do as Nottswarwick does and just use the old lugholes to decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 it wont let me edit my post? I meant output at 8 ohm is usually over half of that at 4 ohm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Actually, it might have been 320w at 4ohm and 130w at 8ohm. The figures were around about that, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 still sounds wrong IMO, where are the resident experts when you need them........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I find it amusing in the Class D world that all the manufacturers have different claims as to the watts. They all use the same power section because Class D technology is patented and owned by B&O. If you open the amp up you will usually see the B&O ICE module in there separated from the rest. They are all pretty much the same. My Genz Benz claims to be 600w but has the 500w ICE module in it for example... [url="http://www.icepower.dk/en/solutions/speaker/A_SERIES"]http://www.icepower.dk/en/solutions/speaker/A_SERIES[/url] In reality, watts don't really matter as long as your amp is loud enough for what you need. And don't get me started on valve watts vs solid state watts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Thinking about it, it could have been that 320/330w is the full output clean and that we've no idea what the distortion figure is for Ibanezes quoted wattage. Which is what Oli was saying. A bit naughty is they're quoting a figure based on ridiculous amounts of distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1346488323' post='1789740'] still sounds wrong IMO, where are the resident experts when you need them........... [/quote] The chap who tested my amp is an expert if that helps. Not being able to remember the figures he quoted to the exact watt is my fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1346488371' post='1789742'] I find it amusing in the Class D world that all the manufacturers have different claims as to the watts. They all use the same power section because Class D technology is patented and owned by B&O. If you open the amp up you will usually see the B&O ICE module in there separated from the rest. They are all pretty much the same. My Genz Benz claims to be 600w but has the 500w ICE module in it for example... [url="http://www.icepower.dk/en/solutions/speaker/A_SERIES"]http://www.icepower....peaker/A_SERIES[/url] In reality, watts don't really matter as long as your amp is loud enough for what you need. And don't get me started on valve watts vs solid state watts! [/quote] [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1346488371' post='1789742'] I find it amusing in the Class D world that all the manufacturers have different claims as to the watts. They all use the same power section because Class D technology is patented and owned by B&O. If you open the amp up you will usually see the B&O ICE module in there separated from the rest. They are all pretty much the same. My Genz Benz claims to be 600w but has the 500w ICE module in it for example... [url="http://www.icepower.dk/en/solutions/speaker/A_SERIES"]http://www.icepower....peaker/A_SERIES[/url] In reality, watts don't really matter as long as your amp is loud enough for what you need. And don't get me started on valve watts vs solid state watts! [/quote] But thats still using their quoted figures and that might be working on the amp working in a different way regarding clean outputs for normal music etc rather than instruments, also by your method the Streamliner 900 and Shuttle 9.0/9.2 are putting out 1000 watts rather than 900? Makes me want a 9.2 Max even more now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 whats with the double quotes all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Sounds like the same thing we had with the TC RH450 and 750 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='Merton' timestamp='1346488906' post='1789757'] Sounds like the same thing we had with the TC RH450 and 750 [/quote] At least these manage 5/6ths of the stated output rather than just over half though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1346488371' post='1789742'] I find it amusing in the Class D world that all the manufacturers have different claims as to the watts. They all use the same power section because Class D technology is patented and owned by B&O. If you open the amp up you will usually see the B&O ICE module in there separated from the rest. [/quote] Patents on Class D amps go back to the early fifties, and while I don't doubt that B&O have patents on their implementation of the design they certainly don't have a monopoly on making Class D power modules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Does anyone know exactly which amps do use them genz do but which other are for certain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 So which model of module has the the 450 got then? Is the B&O rating false and its their fault TC got a slating for quoting their amp at 450 watts with a 500 watt module or has it got the same module as my Shuttle 3.0 which was naughty of Genz to call it 300 watts with the 250 module but no where near as naughty as TC for trying to claim it as 450? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 And has the 750 got the 500 watt module from my Shittle 6.0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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