Recording drums with 2 mics

[MacDaddy]

interesting reading from Behringer

[url="http://www.behringer.com/community/recorderman-drum-technique/"]http://www.behringer.com/community/recorderman-drum-technique/[/url]

[discreet]

Very interesting, thanks for posting... Gabriel Roth sometimes uses [i]one [/i]microphone, check it out:

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun08/articles/daptone.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun08/articles/daptone.htm[/url]

Going to give that [b]recording.org[/b] a good read later, too.

[MacDaddy]

"Once it becomes a formula, people stop using their ears"

says it all.

[discreet]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1335435011' post='1630922']
"Once it becomes a formula, people stop using their ears" says it all.
[/quote]

It really does.

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]"It's funny," [Roth] continues, "People work so hard to get their drums to sound like they were recorded with one microphone. We just put one microphone out there. I'd rather spend two weeks looking for the right place to put the one microphone than on setting up two dozen mics and trying to balance them..."[/size][/font][/color]

[jakenewmanbass]

Mid side is also good for a nice image for drums if you have switchable mics or one condenser, one ribbon!

[Monckyman]

Pretty sure U2s Achtung baby was recorded with only a couple of mics on the kit.
One of them an SM58.

[cheddatom]

I tried the "recorderman" technique a while ago. I like it, and it'd be good for certain kinds of music, but for me it couldn't yield the same impact as close-micing - especially on the toms

It did make me start to think more about phase and I started measuring my stereo overhead pair from the snare and kick.

[Maverick]

Our guitarist swears by this method, but the slight problem is that it doesn't sound that great for our stuff, or at least he hasn't got it to sound that great yet.

Question: if you are close micing the snare and bass drum, is there still any value to using this method, ie are there still potentially major phase issues with the O/Hs? Because once we started close micing the bass and snare, the toms got a bit lost and I think there's better o/h configurations we could use to pick up the toms, but guitard still insists on using this configuration.

[cheddatom]

You might have close mics on the snare and kick, but they're still going to be very loud components in your stereo pair, so for a start having them in phase is important. I once read that you should start your drum mix with a stereo pair, and then gradually add the close mics in, and this method seems to work for me.

Like I said though, in terms of toms i've never got a sound I liked without close mics.

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1335452293' post='1631438']
I once read that you should start your drum mix with a stereo pair, and then gradually add the close mics in....
[/quote]

This is why it's so important to get the positioning of that stereo pair correct. Once it is, the close mics should only be providing a tad of additional detail, sparkle, welly etc providing you are after a natural sound. Good full range condensers in a stereo XY arrangement is my usual start point, often in the form of a Rode NT4 stereo mic.

A well maintained drum kit comes first, then the mics and their positioning. Garbage kit.... garbage sound.

[51m0n]

This is a nice technique, especially for guerilla styel recordings.

The approach to the OH holds true always though, get the snare/kick in phase between the mics, and central with both mic faders up the same amount and panned fully left and right (you can lessne this pan afterwards for a less stereo drum kit if thats what you wnat).

Whenever you add a mic it should be in phase with the OH forst ( and all the other mics) - which is why mic positioning on drums can be a complete bitch.

Edited April 26, 2012 by 51m0n

[cheddatom]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1335466692' post='1631755']
...Good full range condensers in a stereo XY arrangement is my usual start point, often in the form of a Rode NT4 stereo mic...
[/quote]

Great! I just put my name down on one

[ShergoldSnickers]

The set-up time is drastically reduced on the Rode NT4, as it comes as one mic. It's still worth playing about getting the distance and positioning relative to the sound source correct, as with any mic. Don't expect an 18 foot wide drum kit using one. You'll get a natural stereo image that's in proportion, but might not suit those looking for artificially wide sound fields.

Just been looking at the Mid Side (MS) technique. I've finally got my head round the principles, and can now see why it could also be a very viable method.

You need one mic capable of a figure of eight pattern (abbrev. [size=6]∞[/size]), and one cardioid. They don't have to be from the same manufacturer or matched, but the usual quality begets quality rule applies. Set the [size=6]∞[size=4] mic so that the lobes point at 90 degrees to the sound source, to the left and right. Now set the cardioid so that the capsule points at the sound source, and is as near to the capsule of the [size=6]∞[/size] mic as possible without contact.[/size][/size]
[size=6][size=4]Record both mics. If your DAW has MS Decoding, then you are all set. If not, copy the [size=6]∞[/size] mic track, reverse the phase on it, and now pan one of the [size=6]∞[/size] tracks left and the other one right. Starting with the cardioid only, gradually fade in the other two tracks and you will start to get an ever widening stereo image. If the recording is ever broadcast in mono, the side channels cancel - they are out of phase - leaving the cardioid output. It's therefore mono compatible. With the capsules being so close you never get phasing problems due to separation, a benefit that XY pairs also give.[/size][/size]

[size=6][size=4]Some DAW software will allow you to swing the axis of the side channels around the sound source, as if you were moving the mics in a semicircle around the sound source. Very flexible, but I've not actually tried it yet. I will though.[/size][/size]

[size=6][size=4]There's an explanation of handling the tracks in a DAW [url="http://www.recording-microphones.co.uk/Mid%20Side%20FLV/Mid%20Side2.html"]here[/url], and very good it is too. In fact the [url="http://www.recording-microphones.co.uk/"]site from which that came[/url] is brilliant, done by an acquaintance who lives just round the corner, a chap named John Rowley.[/size][/size]

[51m0n]

Ive used a pair of Cascade Fathead 2's in MS config on the blumlein bar you get in the set for this on drums. Sounds absolutely brilliant to me (but i really love those mics on a lot of sources)

Blumlein is effectively M/S but with 2 figure of 8 mics, rather than 1 and a cardiod.

Edited April 27, 2012 by 51m0n

[paul_5]

The "recorder man' technique is [i]really[/i] close to the Glynn Johns technique...