2wheeler Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 [quote name='6stringbassist' post='153712' date='Mar 8 2008, 07:11 PM']...I find the reviews to be very honest.[/quote] I totally agree. There is pressure (implied and explicit) from advertisers and suppliers of review models to be positive in review ratings. I know there shouldn't be but that's the real world. As far as I can tell, BGM manages to confine the impact of such pressure to the star ratings (I agree with the BBC on that point: nothing below a 3 ) and remain very straightforward and honest in the detailed review comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Thing is .... BBC generally talks a load of b******s, he generally doesn't really answer people in a thread, he just generally hangs around, waits for a subject...someone says black, he says white, good example of that is the Manring / Lawson vid that got posted, most people didn't really get into it but true to form BBC comes in and loves it, understands it and wants to learn it, he's pretty good at bringing a thread to a huge yawn...... I dunno, you start off giving your contribution only to find that it ends up a lot like the I Hate Jazz Thread, I hate this, I hate that I've bored myself now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 God - I love jazz!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Clayton Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 [quote name='2wheeler' post='153725' date='Mar 8 2008, 07:38 PM']I totally agree. There is pressure (implied and explicit) from advertisers and suppliers of review models to be positive in review ratings. I know there shouldn't be but that's the real world. As far as I can tell, BGM manages to confine the impact of such pressure to the star ratings (I agree with the BBC on that point: nothing below a 3 ) and remain very straightforward and honest in the detailed review comments.[/quote] Actually, there have been reviews below a three as I recall, and one of them was a Warwick. Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Geez, I just caught up with this thread. That Janek guy disagreed with my critique of Gary Willis. I am now overcome with guilt for having typed such a heinous and vile sentence.... ...well actually that's a fib. I have my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I didn't like what I heard so I voiced my opinion In my opinion, the problem is that Janek's words, are printed in BGM. I will say that I haven't read all of the piece as I don't read BGM. Bought some issues in the past, but didn't like the magazine. In my opinion, when you have a lesson published and start mentioning huge practice times and that parts can be played at super-speed, there is always the regular Joe in the street who doesn't believe it or thinks it's just plain showing-off. I am one of those regular Joes. Claims of huge practice times are nothing new. Anyone remember the Steve Vai 12-hour guitar workout from many years ago ?? Also, we've all heard that pieces should be played at super-speed. I've watched video of Victor Wooten (for example) and he has tremendous speed, yet his calm and eloquent approach make us think about what he has played and how he has played it. I'm afraid that Janek has neither a calm nor an eloquent approach. I will take issue with one point... [quote name='gwizmon' post='153456' date='Mar 8 2008, 12:58 AM']I have one question, and it's a question I ask almost everyone about everything. Why?[/quote] [quote name='gwizmon' post='153456' date='Mar 8 2008, 12:58 AM']So I work on my technique. I hate talking about, i hate writing about it, but it's the reality of bass magazines[/quote] Why write then? If you're making a living and hate writing about technique, why don't you write a column about an aspect of music you do care about instead of "selling-out" to the bass magazines ?? I will say that I have never heard Janek play and I have never met him. If I hear his name in the future though, I know that I'll think of his post here first... What a shame.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='153474' date='Mar 8 2008, 02:29 AM']I haven't read the article and this debate isn't something I really want to be a part of. What I do want to say is that I like the fact that the author of the article and subject of this thread took the time to come to this forum and post responses. That's pretty cool.[/quote] It is indeed. I rarely look at the articles about practice routines and musicianship because I don't really practice that way, and I find getting into them difficult. I simply turn past them. I admire those that write them, and those that can appreciate them. I do the same thing with the newspaper every morning. I never read the sport section. It doesn't interest me but it is still 'news' so I won't be writing to the editor of the Telegraph to complain, or go and complain elsewhere. Those articles which you find so disagreeable are, like it or not, bass guitar related, and as a result in the magazine. If you will excuse me I am off to watch some programmes I don't like so I can get angry with television Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='7string' post='153779' date='Mar 9 2008, 12:00 AM']I will say that I have never heard Janek play and I have never met him. If I hear his name in the future though, I know that I'll think of his post here first... What a shame....[/quote] Maybe you should listen to him and find more out about him before you form an opinion. I dont see what you think was wrong in his post here anyway? Seemed to me he was merely defending himself and showing a genuine interest as to why people didn't get his lesson. I didn't think he came across as not being calm or eloquent personally. Once this thread stooped to the level of taking the p*ss out of him because he says 'cats' now and again I knew it was going nowhere. Thats the shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I've nothing against him answering this thread. However, he just decided to attack all those who had voiced a negative opinion. To me this drives a wedge between audience and author rather than enabling us to see his point of view. Personally, I thought he could have handled this better and sometimes fighting fire with fire isn't the way. I have just "googled" Janek, found his website, looked at his MySpace page and YouTube video, [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHZCTz9E4mo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHZCTz9E4mo[/url] To me it was just 2 1/2 minutes of noodling with no real direction. There are some really great comments regarding the performance, but it just didn't do anything for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='7string' post='153791' date='Mar 9 2008, 12:53 AM']I've nothing against him answering this thread. However, he just decided to attack all those who had voiced a negative opinion. To me this drives a wedge between audience and author rather than enabling us to see his point of view. Personally, I thought he could have handled this better and sometimes fighting fire with fire isn't the way. I have just "googled" Janek, found his website, looked at his MySpace page and YouTube video, [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHZCTz9E4mo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHZCTz9E4mo[/url] To me it was just 2 1/2 minutes of noodling with no real direction. There are some really great comments regarding the performance, but it just didn't do anything for me.[/quote] I can see your point but in all honesty it was a little more than negative opinions on the first page, There was something about 'Janek should have more respect than posting this rubbish'. I havent checked the exact words but it was along those lines. To be honest the video you pointed out did nothing for me either. I would recommend listening to his new album and also some of the bassplayer tv sessions but ultimately theres absolutely nothing wrong with not liking Janeks music or anyone elses for that manner. It would be a pretty boring world if we all liked the same stuff. Given the amount of time that Janek spends on his music and imparting his knowledge I just think he deserves some respect. I know that people can say he got paid for certain articles but I know for a fact that he goes out of his way to answer eMails and help people and is a genuine guy. I guess we all have different reasons for playing music and where we want to go with it. I thought that BBC raised some interesting points and in particular the question of whether too much theory could perhaps get in the way of raw passion and energy (if I understood him correctly). Maybe you wouldn't write a certain line or song because you knew it wasn't 'right' perhaps but after thinking about this for a while my belief is that you can never learn enough. I think someone who plays as much as Janek and gets to that level is in a much better position for ideas to flow without thought interrupting the process as in thinking 'now which finger do I put where next?' as he has found his voice. I guess he can still pump out root notes with the best of 'em as well when the situation demands it. Anyway, probably less discussion and more playing is the answer! Certainly I need it. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 To add to this, I downloaded Janek's first album on itunes and I'm really digging it. Lots of great melodic horn stuff, with simple, smooth, groovy, funky basslines. There was one solo bass part which didn't immediately grab me - but I will give it a few more listens. Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JanekGwizdala Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 7string, are you really reading this thread in it's entirety and also missing the point of it all too? why is it that everyone wants to get hung up on the technique aspect of everything? why look at the article and focus only on some glitch in 16th or 8th note notation? I really don't mind what anyone thinks of my playing. Of course some people will hate it, some people will love it, and some people will be neither here nor there with it. I don't much like a couple of dolly parton's early records, but I don't think she'd get too bent out of shape if I told her that. I welcome the fact that the internet allows us the freedom to express how we feel about certain things. So what if I disagreed with your opinion of Willis? we obviously have different tastes. You think willis isn't melodic and that Bill DIckens is a bass player/musician. I couldn't think more opposite than that at all. But that's just a personal opinion. It's neither here nor there. What is most disturbing is that you boldly state that you stand for most regular people reading the magazine, and that whatever influence I might have on young players reading BGM is a negative one. And that my attitude towards music is somehow showing off? because I am honest about what it actually takes to have some control of your instrument? and because I'm referring to my approach to music? perhaps I should write an article talking about your approach to music so that you might feel more at home because it's what you know already? How are you supposed to learn or be inspired if everything that is handed to you in a lesson is something you already understand? The human mind needs to be taken away from it's regular path a little sometimes. Challenged. But no. What do we find? a few people who don't get the point, bitching and moaning about a typo, and about the fact that I'm some sort of Jeff Berlin jazz Nazi with nothing to offer anyone as far as advice regarding playing music, and I'm accused of "selling out" by writing about technique!???!? And now, of course, I'm not calm. And certainly not eloquent according to 7string. I'm actually (for those people reading that can separate insanity from reality) rather calm as it's 2:30am, and I've just finished a days practicing, feeling really loose, and looking forward to heading back to NYC for a run of gigs and clinics. The root canal has finally stopped throbbing it's way through my brain (thanks to a crap load of pain killers), and I'm able to hear my own thoughts once again. I even managed to fit in a little beach time with my lady today so life could really not get a lot better. Be honest about yourself, be honest about your music. How am I supposed to take what someone like 7string says seriously when there's nothing to even check out of his playing and see where he's coming from to understand the situation? at least not on the myspace page where I checked. I wake up every day and ask myself some serious questions about what I'm doing. I ask "how do I feel about playing today" if I feel good I'll go at it for as much time as I can allot to shedding. I ask "what can I do to challenge myself" hopefully I'll hear something that I don't understand and be able to study it until I do. A favorite thing to do is put the iTunes library on (which has over 50,000 songs in it) and play it on random until something catches my ear that I really want to learn about. Then the rest of the day might be spent on a song, a solo, a chord, a chord progression, a bassline, a melody, a fragment of a solo..... so many different things. And most important of all I ask myself "what can I do today that I have never done before". Sometimes the answers to these questions aren't particularly positive so I might just leave the bass hanging on the wall and go to the park, eat some sushi or whatever until I'm in a place where I think I can do good work. So trying not to force the issue plays a big part in progressing and developing as a player. So in closing, and I feel as much as there have been some great posts on this forum, it's time I didn't post here anymore...... Be honest, be open, imitate then innovate, listen first and play second, play music from a place of love, and do good work. Easy, Janek I welcome anyone over to talkbass where I have a forum where we actually have some great discussions and talk about music rather than getting hung up on interim subjects that hold people back. here's the link: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=155"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=155[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='Jase' post='153730' date='Mar 8 2008, 07:47 PM']Thing is .... BBC generally talks a load of b******s, he generally doesn't really answer people in a thread, he just generally hangs around, waits for a subject...someone says black, he says white, good example of that is the Manring / Lawson vid that got posted, most people didn't really get into it but true to form BBC comes in and loves it, understands it and wants to learn it, he's pretty good at bringing a thread to a huge yawn...... I dunno, you start off giving your contribution only to find that it ends up a lot like the I Hate Jazz Thread, I hate this, I hate that I've bored myself now.[/quote] There was an element of sarcasm to the Steve Lawson post. Re-read it. Are you telling me you didn't pick up on it the first time round??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='gwizmon' post='153823' date='Mar 9 2008, 10:10 AM']imitate then innovate[/quote] I've never agreed with this. I have a guitarist friend who started getting seriously into his music around the same time as me - his attitude was imitate then innovate. He's the most talented musician I know and he can immediately assimilate anything but the guy doesn't have any ideas. He doesn't write any tunes. I'd had a music teacher at school who'd said things along the lines of "have a go, mess around - get a feel for the instrument - see if you can get your ideas out". Obviously I did naturally assimilate a lot of things (my playing is a very simplified mix of Jack Bruce, Paul Jackson and Louis Johnson) but I'd always made a point of trying to write - even when I didn't know sh*t. And I made sure I didn't try to write something influenced by another piece of music. I agree with a lot of what Janek has had to say in this thread - although he's obviously a bit cheesed off. I also agree that people can rely too much on what they already know and not use their imagination to create new music: both people who have limited knowledge of what makes their music work and people who have a well developed understanding. I also think that for Janek to say that Bill Dickens is not a bass player or a musician is as daft as anything we've come to expect from someone as idiotic as BBC. Bill Dickens clearly is a bass player and a musician. Whether or not you like his music or playing is something else. On the issue of whether or not it is good for aspiring musicians to hear that a serious professional can spend up to 10 hours a day practising: it is common knowledge that Charlie Parker played 14 hours a day in his youth. If you're a young musician and you're wondering why you're not as good as Charlie Parker the amount of time you practice could be one of the factors. How can it be bad for a young musician to realise that? Personally, I haven't practiced properly since 1999 - and it badly limits my ability to play parts I've written and my development as a musician. It would also be good for the aspiring musician to hear that other side - but how can someone like Janek tell them that without personal experience of it? Surely that has to come from other people. Anyway, it's sad that Janek won't be posting on this forum anymore. It's good that people don't suck up to him but at the same time BBC is a bloody disgrace who scatters his brand of irritation across threads almost indiscriminately. It's much harder to avoid BBC's bullshit on these forums than it is to avoid BGM or Janek Gwizdala. I shouldn't have to stop using these forums or start using the ignore button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='153930' date='Mar 9 2008, 03:01 PM']I also think that for Janek to say that Bill Dickens is not a bass player or a musician is as daft as anything we've come to expect from someone as idiotic as BBC. Bill Dickens clearly is a bass player and a musician. Whether or not you like his music or playing is something else. ... It's good that people don't suck up to him but at the same time BBC is a bloody disgrace who scatters his brand of irritation across threads almost indiscriminately. It's much harder to avoid BBC's bullshit on these forums than it is to avoid BGM or Janek Gwizdala. I shouldn't have to stop using these forums or start using the ignore button.[/quote] Mum! I told you to stop using this forum! In all seriousness, I think you're being a bit over the top. Not really sure why you think i'm a "bloody discrace", but I think its quite humourous all the same! Personally, I'm not a fan of making personal attacks like you have. Some would say its actually worse than the "bullshit" that I post. People are different I suppose. I still love you as a bass-playing brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Bloody disgrace is over the top. And I admit I've made a personal attack. I'm just annoyed that we've lost Janek Gwizdala through a combination of his not being able to handle legitimate criticism and the huge amount of rubbish in this thread that he's had to put up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='153941' date='Mar 9 2008, 03:30 PM']Bloody disgrace is over the top. And I admit I've made a personal attack. I'm just annoyed that we've lost Janek Gwizdala through a combination of his not being able to handle legitimate criticism and the huge amount of rubbish in this thread that he's had to put up with.[/quote] I've just re-read every post I've made on this thread to see if I've been being a tw*t (through a combination of irresponsible parents and booze, I often am), and I think I've actually been at the less confrontational end of my usual behaviour. My posts are often exagerated to make a point and the tone sometimes doesn't come across in text, but I've shyed away from personal insults. Janek doesn't play the music I like. Thats all. Simple. I'm sure he can live with it. I openly admit he is phenomenaly talented, more so than I'll ever be, I'm just not a big fan of how he uses that ability. Its not personal. Its nothing I wouldn't say to his face. I get the impression that you feel Janek's decision to leave has something to do with my posts. If you re-read them, their actually pretty tame. I don't dislike the guy. He's talented. Just not my cup of tea. Seems a strange reason to leave a forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='153941' date='Mar 9 2008, 03:30 PM']I'm just annoyed that we've lost Janek Gwizdala through a combination of his not being able to handle legitimate criticism and the huge amount of rubbish in this thread that he's had to put up with.[/quote] That'd be a fair comment if not for the fact that most of his posts on basschat have been on this thread! Nothing against him (very nice of him to take the time to write), but what precisely have we lost..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='153948' date='Mar 9 2008, 03:43 PM']I've just re-read every post I've made on this thread to see if I've been being a tw*t (through a combination of irresponsible parents and booze, I often am), and I think I've actually been at the less confrontational end of my usual behaviour. My posts are often exagerated to make a point and the tone sometimes doesn't come across in text, but I've shyed away from personal insults. Janek doesn't play the music I like. Thats all. Simple. I'm sure he can live with it. I openly admit he is phenomenaly talented, more so than I'll ever be, I'm just not a big fan of how he uses that ability. Its not personal. Its nothing I wouldn't say to his face. I get the impression that you feel Janek's decision to leave has something to do with my posts. If you re-read them, their actually pretty tame. I don't dislike the guy. He's talented. Just not my cup of tea. Seems a strange reason to leave a forum.[/quote] You didn't upset or offend me at all and you made me think about certain elements of playing as I stated in a previous post. This thread has done nothing for the credibility of this forum however. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Well, it's hardly an inviting welcome to the forum, is it? Is he going to bother looking at any of the other threads and contributing there now? BBC - to quote Billy Joel, "don't go changin' to try to please me". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I think it's time the moderators knock this one on the head, It's going nowhere. We've lost a valuable contributor to this forum now, because of some tosser winding people up for a laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='Rayman' post='153955' date='Mar 9 2008, 03:56 PM']I think it's time the moderators knock this one on the head, It's going nowhere. We've lost a valuable contributor to this forum now, because of some tosser winding people up for a laugh.[/quote] Do you mean me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Are you a tosser?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='Rayman' post='153961' date='Mar 9 2008, 04:01 PM']Are you a tosser??[/quote] Dunno. Its subjective. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Is that you in the avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='153853' date='Mar 9 2008, 11:28 AM']There was an element of sarcasm to the Steve Lawson post. Re-read it. Are you telling me you didn't pick up on it the first time round???[/quote] Too small an element I'm afraid, I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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