paul h Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I have been a little bit obsessed with zero frets ever since I owned a MTD Kingston for a year or so. It was the best playing bass I have ever played by far. I just didn't like the sound so it had to go. Now I fully understand that just because that one was great it doesn't mean another zero fret bass would be as good. However I can't move on with my life until I have another zero fret bass! So after a quick google I found this... [url="http://www.monteallums.com/enut_tuning.html#ensupp"]http://www.monteallums.com/enut_tuning.html#ensupp[/url] Has anybody had any experience of this or something similar? I can't make up my mind about it. I know the Buzz Feiten system brings the nut closer to the bridge but does it really move as much as just sticking an extra fret in? Is it going to nark up my intonation? Thoughts appreciated. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I used to think zero frets were the answer to having more even tone on open and fretted notes. Then I realised that a fretted note is partially damped by the finger that's doing the fretting, therefore a zero fret needs a similar material behind it to damp the note. This therefore means that the route to open and fretted notes sounding as similar as possible is actually to have a slightly softer nut material to partially damp the note. An ebony nut actually strikes a very good balance, strange though that may seem on a fretted bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Have to say this sounds too obsessive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I understood that a zero fret would have a nut slightly behind to keep the strings in place and provide that slight 'damping' like a virtual finger. Personally I think it's a great idea as my playing unconsciously evolved to avoid using open strings where possible because of the slight tonal differences, but it doesn't bother me enough to warrant doing such extensive modification to a bass that doesn't already have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1255110' date='Jun 3 2011, 10:03 AM']....Have to say this sounds too obsessive to me....[/quote] +1 Spend the money on something useful, like a lesson or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Obsessive? Me? The thing is they are less than $10 and only require a small mod to the existing nut. I think will probably have to get one so I can at least try it and move on! p.s. Ok, hands up, who didn't actually look at the link? Hahaha. Edited June 3, 2011 by paul h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I once messed around with a bit of galvalised garden wire, which I hammered slightly oval and then bent to match to fetboard radius. Then just slipped it under the strings and set its position using a tuner. It was just held in place by the string pressure, didn't look very pretty, but improved the intonation all up the fret board immensely (once I'd reset intonation at the bridge obviously). Stricks me that this is all the metal E-nut is, but slightly smarter than a bit of galvalized wire. For $9 or so got to be worth a try, as long as it can be easily removed. This was on a bass that I built myself about 30 years ago, and although I got the nut and fret spacing spot on mathematically (31.5" scale), I did not allow for the sharpening affecting when placing the nut. On this one my floating zero fret ended up right against the nut at the G string, but 4-5mm at at the E string. As I say the improvement in intonation on that bass was immense. On my bought in basses I've not found the problem enough to worry me cause me, especially as I don't tend to play chords down at the bottom end. (Possibly because they sound sh*t due to the intonation problems??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 My Sandbergs have 0 fret. I find it's one of those things that won't make or break a bass but it's a nice feature. I like having them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 @Count Bassy: I think you're right. This seems to be pretty much a a jumbo fret without the tang. And as you say, it's probably worth a punt for the money. @ThomBassmonkey: I have only played a couple of Sandbergs but they both played great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I can see problems with tuning/intonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Just bought one. £9.10 including shipping. :excited: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Let us know how it goes, could well be after one myself to replace the galvanised wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' post='1255474' date='Jun 3 2011, 02:22 PM']Have I got this right. You deepen the nut slots and then put a tangless fret up tight to the nut?? So therefore shortening the distance between the zero fret (Nut) and the first fret. 1st a wee bit of time in the vice with a normal fret and a file should do the same thing. Second if you're going to do it why not do it right. Knock a nut out glue a sliver of something in there. Cut it fret it and then put the nut in further back. A bit more time effort and work but if you're obsessive a better job IMO. p.s. what would be the point of a bone zero fret on a guitar with a bone nut [/quote] From how I read it, and the pictures, the bone one is more of a compensated nut, the metal ones are more of an adjustable zero fret. The zero fret would probably be up against the nut on the G string, further away on the E string. The problem with the fixing a zero fret is that it then becomes non adjustable should you decide to change your action , string guage etc. Edited June 3, 2011 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 It's here...and it's on! It was one hell of a jumbo fret so it took quite a bit of work to get it down to size. I compromised and filed/sanded/polished it down to a height slightly between the height of my first fret and the bottom of the nut slots. My nut wasn't actually cut low enough anyway so playability at the first fret is much improved. Intonation is most probably improved although I can't categorically state that. It's fine now but I didn't do a before test and I have never noticed bad intonation before. I put the zero fret in flush against the nut and I am sure I could have improved things by playing with the angle of it. The tone is nice and even over the open strings and the lower action by the nut feels great. However, the main reason I did this was so I can move on from my zero fret obsession without buying a new bass. So even in that respect alone, it's a massive success! A quick £9 mod has just save me a bundle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='paul h' post='1264853' date='Jun 11 2011, 12:57 PM']It's here...and it's on! It was one hell of a jumbo fret so it took quite a bit of work to get it down to size. I compromised and filed/sanded/polished it down to a height slightly between the height of my first fret and the bottom of the nut slots. My nut wasn't actually cut low enough anyway so playability at the first fret is much improved. Intonation is most probably improved although I can't categorically state that. It's fine now but I didn't do a before test and I have never noticed bad intonation before. I put the zero fret in flush against the nut and I am sure I could have improved things by playing with the angle of it. The tone is nice and even over the open strings and the lower action by the nut feels great. However, the main reason I did this was so I can move on from my zero fret obsession without buying a new bass. So even in that respect alone, it's a massive success! A quick £9 mod has just save me a bundle. [/quote] Glad that it's worked out for you. What actually hold the zero fret in place with this device, do you have to cut the fret board or nut at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Count Bassy' post='1265866' date='Jun 12 2011, 11:29 AM']Glad that it's worked out for you. What actually hold the zero fret in place with this device, do you have to cut the fret board or nut at all?[/quote] Well the info on the site says string tension is enough to hold it in place but I have superglued it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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