Diary of a P-bass conversion...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='1211388' date='Apr 26 2011, 03:12 AM']Regarding your indestructible sealing coat...

Before you go down the power sanding route, consider hand-sanding. Get a heavy rubber block from either Halfords or DoItAll & some coarse grit wet & dry (120 - 180). Use the block on the front & back, then freehand around the contours & edges - much less chance of inadvertently re-profiling anything. Then work up through the grades to 400 - it'll feel erotically smooth

Before [i]even that[/i] though, think about hoying yourself back to the DIY shoppe & pick up that yellow tin of Nitromors.

Be warned, it bites.

It's a very runny liquid, & really needs to be used outside as the fumes are interesting. An old 1" paintbrush and some sort of heavy-duty gloves are a good idea ([b]not[/b] Marigolds), and don't bother with the bin liner as it'll just melt it into an ungodly mess of caustic black goo - a Sunday broadsheet is your best bet . To neutralise it, you must use white spirit/turps/paraffin or similar - water won't touch it (unlike the green tin); have some to hand all the time just in case you get any on your skin - unlike the green version it'll start to burn like buggery in seconds. It's one of those products that I'm amazed can be still bought on the High Street tbh.

Cautions aside, there are very few finishes that will withstand this stuff. It'll see off two-pack without breaking sweat.

A possible alternative (but may not be cost-effective) is to see if you've got one of those Pine Door-stripping places local to you. They usually use a strong Caustic Soda solution which will also destroy most finishes. You can adopt a DIY approach with Caustic, but the trick is to find something big enough to contain the entire body, as it needs to be fully immersed.

Pete.[/quote]


wow, lots of info here, thank you!

that yellow NItromors sounds like the Hulk of paintstrippers!
I avoided using it before because it just seems a lot messier and more dangerous... However, if it could deal with the sealant, it could be interesting and I can do small sections at a time... I have to think about it, although I have a power sander on its way now so I may use that first at least for the flat surfaces.
I will still end up hand sanding just to get a smoother finish, but I wanted to do that once I'm touching wood.

Caustic soda would eat the sealant away?
Hmm, I can take a few pellets from work and make a strong solution to try it. Again it would be used is smaller sections not a whole body at a time. I'd rather deal with small amounts at any one time.

Thank you for all the comments. I am learning a lot of useful info.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1211495' date='Apr 26 2011, 10:14 AM']even the sealer?

hmmm, I found your thread... that seems the absolutely cleanest and nicest way to strip a body!

I just bought a sander on eBay (there are loads! cheap! ) but I will definitely try this first. Thank you![/quote]

Yup, the sealer didn't come off uniformly but where it didn't, the heat definitely softened it to the point of being more of a gel that could be scraped away easily. Probably it was an advantage having the black finish on there and doing it in one go, as that would have held the heat nicely and spread it into the sealer. This and/or the evil nitromors have got to be worth a try, with a power sander you always run the risk of accidentally 'recontouring' the instrument!

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1211502' date='Apr 26 2011, 10:26 AM']Caustic soda would eat the sealant away?
Hmm, I can take a few pellets from work and make a strong solution to try it. Again it would be used is smaller sections not a whole body at a time. I'd rather deal with small amounts at any one time.[/quote]
Ah, maybe Caustic is Not For You...

Caustic is at it's best when you have a very hot near-saturated solution (i.e. the water can't physically dissolve any more crystals) - hence the need for a 'Bosh Tank' of some description that can allow for a good long soak. One of those old Butlers' Sinks is great, but I have used the bath before now (which has the added benefit of both cleaning the bath & taking care of any incipient drain blockage at the same time - not recommended if you're married or living with Mum though )

The only things to avoid with Caustic Soda are

Aluminium (it etches it, & will eventually dissolve it),
Oak (turns it almost jet black), and
Bakelite (f***s it completely).

I dare say there are more, but those are the ones I've found by experimentation so far.

Pete.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Bloodaxe

[mcnach]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='1211697' date='Apr 26 2011, 02:33 PM']Ah, maybe Caustic is Not For You...

Caustic is at it's best when you have a very hot near-saturated solution (i.e. the water can't physically dissolve any more crystals) - hence the need for a 'Bosh Tank' of some description that can allow for a good long soak. One of those old Butlers' Sinks is great, but I have used the bath before now (which has the added benefit of both cleaning the bath & taking care of any incipient drain blockage at the same time - not recommended if you're married or living with Mum though )

The only things to avoid with Caustic Soda are

Aluminium (it etches it, & will eventually dissolve it),
Oak (turns it almost jet black), and
Bakelite (f***s it completely).

I dare say there are more, but those are the ones I've found by experimentation so far.

Pete.[/quote]


It sounds like it could be fun to find out what other materials to avoid

Oak turns black? Interesting. I'm sure that has an use somewhere! I would have expected a yellow staining 'though.

I like the idea of cleaning the bath as a secondary effect, but I'm not keen on dealing with large amounts of corrosives... especially when they get very hot dissolving them. Hence my "small amounts" rule.

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1211847' date='Apr 26 2011, 05:47 PM']I'm not keen on dealing with large amounts of corrosives... especially when they get very hot dissolving them. Hence my "small amounts" rule.[/quote]
Pah!

Did our ancestors forge an Empire by footling about with tiny amounts of harmful substances? Did the 'eck as like! A body of chaps in overalls sporting flat caps, 10 Woodbines, a 28lb sledgehammer & with access to a few turret lathes & vats of boiling caustic soda & even a Thousand Year Reich gave in.

IdunnoyouthoftodayIblametheparentsandtheGuvingmintetc.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='1211946' date='Apr 26 2011, 07:26 PM']Pah!

Did our ancestors forge an Empire by footling about with tiny amounts of harmful substances? Did the 'eck as like! A body of chaps in overalls sporting flat caps, 10 Woodbines, a 28lb sledgehammer & with access to a few turret lathes & vats of boiling caustic soda & even a Thousand Year Reich gave in.

IdunnoyouthoftodayIblametheparentsandtheGuvingmintetc.[/quote]




heh, a workmate of my father's told us how when they were small kids they'd go out in the woods and they could still find bullets left behind by the recently ended Spanish Civil War. They would make fires, throw the bullets in and run. The day after they'd just keep quiet when people comment about the recent gunfire.
One day, he says... they found a grenade.
Of course they made it explode! Kids are immortal!!!

As I grow older, 'though I appreciate that I may not be the most handsome man in the country. Not even in the city. Sometimes not even in my home! But I'd like to preserve my physical integrity

[Prime_BASS]

I did power sanding after I did nitromers on a some squier jazz body.
I ended up with the sealer like you have now and if this sue ryder is any bit similar, the sealer is going to milimeters thick in places and takes ages and lots of sand paper to get off!!! Seriously it was fun and a learning curve but I never want to do it again.

Added that you'll still have to do the graded sanding till you get to 1000 grade (or something) the more of the sealer you get off with nitromers the better as it isn't as labouring and you can do grooves and the cut awaysmore easily. I also heard a heat gun is good, but never tried it personally.

[dr1]

if you re interested...here's my 83' P bass ' conversion...also with DiMarzio (as someone mentioned - the Monster output pick ups!!!)
hope you'll like it...

it came with stripped original colour, and painted in black but badly..and with additional J pick up on the bridge


i gave it to the luthier, ordering removal of a J pick up and a new black paint...


after few years i got idea of a Goldie,and there it is...



recently I bought a tort pickguard and a set of old rusty P bass pot caps...




I just LOVE this thing,very light,comfy, with a really HUGE sound comin from DiMarzio. I had all kind of strings on it, from La Bella flats (jamerson set) was quite impressive and adorable,and now it's DR LO Riders Nickel - also a great ones!
(sorry for hi jackin your thread bro and cheers!!!!)

[mcnach]

That black p-bass was

Back to body stripping...

I haven't done much lately. But I tried the hairdryer trick. And it does work!!!

Unfortunately my hairdryer is not very good and it overheats quickly, cutting out until it cools down again.
I tried to borrow a good one but I was denied its use once it transpired what I wanted it for

It does take a little bit of practice to get it right, to know when it's warm enough etc.

Here's my first attempt on the front of the body (on an area that will be covered by a pickguard).



The bottom area was where I started. I scratched a bit the wood... but on the top area I got the hang of it and was able to remove nice chunks without damaging the wood underneath. It'll all be sanded afterwards, but the less damage, the better, eh?

This is going to take some time, but it's not hard and the result is clean. Although the curved bits are going to be tough...

[mcnach]

It's been really busy lately, so not much happening with this bass at the moment.

Only:

1) I managed to be allowed to use a better hairdryer

2) Black&Decker sander arrived

So things are going to happen!!!

Meanwhile, I decided to put things together to get a better idea of what it's going to look like when it's done.
The result is decidedly sexy.

Behold:

[apa]

Looks like a through body

The wood looks better than I thought for a 3 piece.

A

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1217642' date='May 2 2011, 03:25 PM']That black p-bass was

Back to body stripping...

I haven't done much lately. But I tried the hairdryer trick. And it does work!!!

Unfortunately my hairdryer is not very good and it overheats quickly, cutting out until it cools down again.
I tried to borrow a good one but I was denied its use once it transpired what I wanted it for

It does take a little bit of practice to get it right, to know when it's warm enough etc.

Here's my first attempt on the front of the body (on an area that will be covered by a pickguard).

The bottom area was where I started. I scratched a bit the wood... but on the top area I got the hang of it and was able to remove nice chunks without damaging the wood underneath. It'll all be sanded afterwards, but the less damage, the better, eh?

This is going to take some time, but it's not hard and the result is clean. Although the curved bits are going to be tough...[/quote]

Good stuff! Looking at your pics I think the fact I used the hairdryer straight onto the poly without stripping that layer off probably helped me - the thick black poly would get nice and hot and totally f*** the sealer layer underneath melting it off nicely, looks to be a bit tougher when you've only got the sealer left. Actually, thinking back, the few areas that the sealer was left on with mine did prove somewhat annoying. Look forward to seeing how this progresses.

[apa]

How you going to wire it? Im assuming being an (ex) J man its going to be vol vol tone?

A

[mcnach]

[quote name='apa' post='1221732' date='May 5 2011, 10:57 PM']How you going to wire it? Im assuming being an (ex) J man its going to be vol vol tone?

A[/quote]



Not decided yet... but it will *NOT* be a VVT. Not a combination I favour. I liked the Jazz despite the VVT config, not because of it. When I have had passive OLPs (also VVT), the first thing I would do is to wire both coils in parallel to one of the volume controls and disable teh other, so straight VT.

The options I thought of are:

1) simple: volume, tone, and a pickup selector switch (maybe blend? probably switch).

2) since I seem "activate" basses, maybe go for it from the start. In which case I am considering 3 options:
A) buying a John East J-Retro, and install the guts discarding the metal plate. It'll have 3 knobs then.
going Stingray, installing a John East MMSR (3 knob). This is what I have on my Stingray and is my favourite preamp. Plus a pickup switch.
C) related to B: actually put a Stingray control plate and have the pickguard cut to blend into it. Then I would either choose
an MMSR as above, or a 2EQ preamp from my MM SUB5 (the 2EQ from the Stingray is on the fretless OLP)

so... no clear yet, but I lean towards the active route, and it'll almost surely will be a 3-knob plus switch, unless I use a J-Retro... the J-Retro has a blend control already... and two mini switches, but I may or may not use them, or only one of them...

Early days. I need to get that body cleaned up first!!!

[apa]

There you go again. Im the same!! Realy dont like the VVT set up on a J. Dont see the point. Realy difficult to get a blend and maintain the volume and visa versa. Im pondering changing it to a mix vol tone (is that MVT??). I didnt know any different when I bought it. Not sure the MM plate would go on that Ryder hmm. But an MM pre would be cool

A

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='apa' post='1222362' date='May 6 2011, 04:51 PM']There you go again. Im the same!! Realy dont like the VVT set up on a J. Dont see the point. Realy difficult to get a blend and maintain the volume and visa versa. Im pondering changing it to a mix vol tone (is that MVT??). I didnt know any different when I bought it. Not sure the MM plate would go on that Ryder hmm. But an MM pre would be cool

A[/quote]

Sorry to hijack, but let me know if you do go MVT on your Jazz, I've been thinking about doing it on my old Roadstar (same problem) but I read somewhere on here that the blend pots give you volume headaches in the middle as well. Rendering it a little pointless.

[mcnach]

[quote name='apa' post='1222362' date='May 6 2011, 04:51 PM']Not sure the MM plate would go on that Ryder hmm. But an MM pre would be cool [/quote]

I was thinking something along these lines (ignore the fact it's a wrong plate, it's the closest thing I had at hand, it's just for visualisation purposes)



I think it can be good. The pickguard must fit perfectly 'though.
However I still think a straight Precision pickguard, simply with the altered pickup routs is the way to go.

Just for fun... another version with a Stingray plate. I still prefer the Precision... and it would look too much like another bass made by a BCer, and it'd be a bit... weird.

[hillbilly deluxe]

Stack knobs,VTVT ?

[apa]

If you veneered the front face you could do without any scratchplate or put any shape you want on it and not have to worry about the old screw holes. I was supprised at how easy veneering is especially if you use the iron on dry PVA method. Let me know and Ill tell you how I did it on Bernice and Rosie. Im a sucker for the MM scratchplate (being a symmetry fan lol) but just an MM plate may look cool

WTF is that plate from? A two knob MM Plate??? Thats just plain wrong lol.

A

[Ancient Mariner]

I'm not sure why, but that minimal blob of a scratchplate is really growing on me.

[mcnach]

I have considered the veneer route... for another time. But it would be wrong on this bass. It's got to be a simple non-fancy construction... yet awe-inspiring

Body will be raw, naked, just oil finish. I wanted it to stay a P-bass in shape (despite the pickup situation), and the pickguard is an important detail of the P-bass identity. I only thought of the Stingray control plate because I thought of the Musicman Sabre, and I recently saw a custom made bass that blended a pickguard very nicely with a similar plate. By the way, the one in the picture came from a Stagg MB300/5. A 5-string Stingray style cheapie I bought a while ago, not quite sure why

The MM scratchplate is something I thought of very early on. It's nice that the control route and the pickup cavity are separate on the Sue Ryder basses, as it will allow you to use separate pickguard and control plates, like on a Stingray... (My Squier CV60 has a continuous route, so it's not possible there). However, you can't use a Stingray plate if you want the pickup to be located at the correct position (20 vs 21 fret necks mean on the P-bass the pickguard would start too high up), so you need to make a custom one anyway. But I admit it does look good. Ou7shined, of this parish, built a very tasty bass along those lines.

[stingrayPete1977]

Great work as usual mcnach keep up the good work

[LukeFRC]

i liked the p bass plate with the chrome of the mm control plate.... and had an idea.... a straight chrome plate and a pickguard like the '51 P bass.... but around the mm pickup not the p bass one...

[mcnach]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1222731' date='May 6 2011, 11:19 PM']i liked the p bass plate with the chrome of the mm control plate.... and had an idea.... a straight chrome plate and a pickguard like the '51 P bass.... but around the mm pickup not the p bass one...[/quote]


Hmmm, I like your thinking!
That idea is certainly tasty (according to my own taste, which is -of course- the correct one )

Unfortunately the vertical plate would not hide the existing control cavity
Also, the routing for the split pickup is very large, so it would be ugly... It would have to be done on a blank body, or fill the gaps and apply a solid finish.

But it would be a great look for sure! Thank you for the idea. Keep them coming!

Edited May 6, 2011 by mcnach

[apa]

If you want it plain and brutish and hairy assed with no messin and keeps the P style then ditch the mm plate, add another hole for the extra nob and put the black scratch plate on as it is although are the holes for the P pup in the right place? Less bling and more 'The peoples bass'. Dont you just hate ponsey blinged up, flashy, poshwooded basses?? hahah Keep it simple man! Make it look like its forged from the good soil.

And that black scratchplate would look nice with an ebony thumbrest
A