PA System

[rob_89]

My band is due to start gigging in the new year and were looking to get a PA system

What kind of power would we need? We'll be playing pubs and clubs mainly.

Also, any brands to recommend???

Cheers, Rob

[Mog]

[quote name='rob_89' post='1043260' date='Dec 1 2010, 03:40 AM']My band is due to start gigging in the new year and were looking to get a PA system

What kind of power would we need? We'll be playing pubs and clubs mainly.

Also, any brands to recommend???

Cheers, Rob[/quote]

Really need more info lad, how big are these pubs/clubs?
Will you need many aux's?
What transport do you have?
What budget you have?

Basically I'd suggest a 12 channel mixer as a minimum. 1000 watt power amp minimum. A good compression unit. Well matched speakers. (probably as important as power)
JBL, Peavey, Alesis, Mackie and Dynacord are all brands I'd recommend.

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[warwickhunt]

[quote name='rob_89' post='1043260' date='Dec 1 2010, 03:40 AM']My band is due to start gigging in the new year and were looking to get a PA system

What kind of power would we need? We'll be playing pubs and clubs mainly.

Also, any brands to recommend???

Cheers, Rob[/quote]

Get double what you think you need and then you'll just about be OK!

We have a 12 channel Soundcraft desk (basic but noise free and does the job, though we have a cheapy graphic in a small 2U rack with the effects) with 2 Aux for use with my 3 piece (all 3 sing) and we have just enough channels; drums can eat up 3-6 channels with no problem, then you are talking one for each instrument or vocal (don't forget if the guitarist uses an acoustic that needs a channel as well as the electric). The two aux means we can use one for monitors and one for the reverb (desk doesn't have built in effects). The 6 piece band that I am in (5 of us sing) ALSO have a 12 channel desk (Yamaha MG range which is very good and comprehensive especially for the price) but we sub mix the drums in a 4 channel mini-mixer to free up channels... wish we'd bought the bigger desk in this series. Both bands share a set of RCF powered tops and a single bass bin with a combined RMS of 2200watts; plenty headroom for pub gigs and manages small to medium clubs fine.

If budget allows I'd go for powered speakers especially as some of the newer ones are dead light and the set-up/strip down is dead easy.

These are just top of the head idea of what we have but your needs might be different, as may your budget.

[Ian Savage]

Are you looking at putting just vocals through the PA, or will you want bass/guitars/basic drums going through it as well? Bare minimum for 'just vocals in pubs' I'd say would would be 400W per side ('proper' Watts, i.e. not cheap Chinese-made crap) into a pair of four-ohm speakers, plus some monitoring.

Personally for smaller gigs at the moment I'm using a QSC USA900 amp (450W RMS per channel into four ohms) into a pair of Peavey Pro 15s (300W per side, four ohms - for reasons I won't go into unless you want me to you're better off over-powering PA speakers than you are under-powering them) which are a very good match for each other, more than enough volume to lift vocals over drums and backline at anything up to a few hundred capacity venues.

[Adrenochrome]

Get powered speakers if you can, it's so much easier!

The PA for my main band is ridiculous - 2 x 2x15 bass bins, 2 x 1x15 cabs for the mid range, and 2 x 1x15with horns for the top end. We run 2 crossovers and a big pile of old amps (5000+ watts) with a writhing sea of cables to (badly) wire it all up. We have active monitors for the front (yey!), but a passive monitor for the drummer which means another amp. It sounds immense but can give me back ache for days after a gig

The other band has active tops and bottoms (with the built-in crossovers) and a desk. Sounds just as clear with only a bit less volume

[LiamPodmore]

We do just Vocals (2) into a Behringer Europower PMX2000. 250w Per Side. Which goes into 2 8ohm 1x15's and 2 8ohm 1x12's, plenty loud for just Vocals in our pubs, anywhere else we play has PA Supplied.

Liam

[gilmour]

The new HK elements system is incredible. It's also modular so you can add on bits as you need them. I've got one it's loud and sounds great

Down side is that it's effing expensive

[chris_b]

Don't skimp on the sound guy. Get a good one or the money you'll spend on this equipment will be wasted.

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='gilmour' post='1050388' date='Dec 7 2010, 12:05 PM']The new HK elements system is incredible. It's also modular so you can add on bits as you need them. I've got one it's loud and sounds great

Down side is that it's effing expensive

[/quote]

Oh wow, i can't wait to try that stuff out!

[rob_89]

Thanks everyone.

At the minute the ones weve got lined up are medium (possibly getting into large)pubs/clubs, id say 100-150 people?

Weve got a gig this Sunday and arranged to hire one just for this time as not in a direct position to purchase one until after the new year. its a medium sized pub, about 120 id say maximum on a busy sunday night. The system weve looked at is 700w with two speakers, and were planning on just running the vocals through it...so should this be ample for this one gig?

Ive took heed of the comments you lot have replied with and when we buy were going to be looking at 1000w upwards.

Cheers again,

Rob

[markstuk]

Don't get fixated on just the power.. The efficiency of the speakers is as, if not more, important... A 3db improvement in efficiency is equivalent to doubling the amp power output.. And it's not uncommon for there to be >10 db efficiency differences betweens different speaker setups. I'd focus on how loud, at what frequencies, in what size room and how many people in the audience..

Cheers


Mark

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='markstuk' post='1052738' date='Dec 9 2010, 01:46 PM']Don't get fixated on just the power.. The efficiency of the speakers is as, if not more, important... A 3db improvement in efficiency is equivalent to doubling the amp power output.. And it's not uncommon for there to be >10 db efficiency differences betweens different speaker setups.[/quote]

This is indeed all very true, matching your amp to your speakers and getting speakers which are as efficient as possible is half the battle. It's a good argument in favour of active speakers, as most of the work in matching's been done for you (i.e. when it says you're getting 400W into the driver you know you're getting 400W into the driver as it's all been engineered together), but as you'll find out when you come to buy, GOOD active stuff (like dB, RCF, Italian-made Mackie) costy lotta monies. There's a few comparative bargains out there, particularly secondhand (Wharfedale and Studiomaster make some decent powered enclosures which go fairly cheap) but for sheer bang-for-buck you're better off with the old fashioned 'mixer+amp+speakers' approach.

The Peavey Pro 15s I mentioned I'm using earlier have an efficiency (sometimes called sensitivity) of 96dB/1W@1m (often just expressed as '96dB') - I'd say this is about the median average for mid-range PA loudspeakers. You'll get some (generally older and/or cheaper units) with a lower efficiency, some (generally newer/more expensive - starting to see a pattern here? ) with higher sensitivity.
When you bear in mind that an increase of 10dB corresponds to a perceived doubling of 'loudness', you can see that a pair of loudspeakers with an efficiency of, say, 100dB/1W@1m will appear to be TWICE as loud as a pair of 90dB/1W@1m when fed with the same mix by the same amplifier, impedance etc being equal - so itpays to get the most efficient speakers you can afford!

[LawrenceH]

Whilst you can get cheaper systems as separates, I think actives are pretty reasonably priced nowadays and are definitely my preference for small/medium gigs up to 150 or so people. They're great for confined spaces and versatile - for big gigs they can normally be used as stage monitors and a single cab using the built-in mic/instrument inputs is a great all-in-one solution for jams and really titchy gigs.
Another thing I've found with half-decent actives is that they tend to get quite loud whilst still giving a fairly clean sound, I think the bi-amping probably helps here since you can be pushing the bottom end pretty hard but still have clean upper-mids/treble (where distortion is typically most objectionable).

[Mr Fudge]

dynacord powered desks are great. on board effects loads of chanels and power. we have some EV tops and powered wharfdale subs, that are bloody heavy!! For smaller pubs we only use ine sub and crank it up a bit.