Doddy Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='foal30' post='1183063' date='Mar 31 2011, 10:29 AM']over limahl, yeah. I buy Mike Stern "Big Neighborhood" it's quite rocky lot of chorus pedal and Esperna Spalding scatting/vocalizing. Not at all sure about that or Steve Vai[/quote] I like that album. It's not his best,but it's still really good. I've just bought Chick Corea Elektric Band 'Eye of the Beholder' and Michel Camilo 'Triangulo'. I'm really digging them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Found EotB a bit bland (never really enjoyed Marienthal or Gambale) but Triangulo is really nice (can't go wrong with Jackson and Hernandez in the engine room!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1184281' date='Apr 1 2011, 09:26 AM']Found EotB a bit bland (never really enjoyed Marienthal or Gambale) but Triangulo is really nice (can't go wrong with Jackson and Hernandez in the engine room!!).[/quote] 'Eye of the Beholder' doesn't have the excitement that the first Elektric Band album did,but it's good. The postman bought me an album called '4 Generations of Miles' with George Coleman,Mike Stern,Ron Carter and Jimmy Cobb,today. I've not had chance to listen to it yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 I agree - that first Elektric Band was a monster triumph (first major appearance by John Patitucci? Got A Match - killer) but, from then on, it went downhill for me. I only liked one track on the 2nd LP and preferred his early Return To Forever stuff with Clarke, Purim, Moriera and Farrell etc. My favourite Corea stuff, though, was the Miroslav Vitous/Roy Haynes trio. Those lps are still on my playlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Re-posted from 'How was your gig last night' Thread I [i]knew[/i] it!! I did a trio gig last night at The Fox Inn in Bury St Edmunds. It was tenor sax, bass and drums. I have played this venue on an off for about three years with different bands and know the landlord and the bloke she uses to book the bands reasonably well. The bloke approached me about putting something together for last night and I asked him if I could do this trio thing as I had wanted to do it for years. He was a bit 'ooooh, Shelia (the landlord) won't like it' but he agreed to let us do it. Anyway, sorted the line up and set about getting some charts together based on the fact that I would be playing double bass and needed to pace things so I wasn't a spent force at the end of the first (of three) set. Charts done and sent to the sax player and drummer. All set to go when, on Friday at around midnight, I was unloading my double bass from the car and clipped the bridge on the side of the vehicle, causing it to explode into three pieces. So I had to do the gig on electric and most of the charts were inappropriate. I have to admit that I was feeling more than a little nwevous before we started, something that has not happened in decades. So, gieven the forced change of plan, we knocked up three sets of old faithfuls on the day. We were doing funk versions of standards, some hip hop derived stuff (with a hint of reggae), the odd shufffle, some fast 'sh*t off a stick' be-bop, some Latin tunes and a couple of ballads per set. Damned hard work for a trio and a lot of really focussed effort by all involved. More to the point, and herein lied the risk, it demanded something of the listener. The gig was not only a 'musical/artistic' success but the (hard to please) landlady loved it, the punters loved it and we got an immediate re: booking in June. The clincher though came to me third hand from guy who told me that another regular (who really knows his stuff) said it was 'exceptional' and 'by far the best thing [he] had ever seen there'. It had its flaws and I would do some things differently next time but, for a first gig. it felt like a real affirmation. I have always believed that the punters will respond to the energy and the quality of an intelligent performance and didn't need to be spoon-fed 'smooth jazz' or 'the Great American Songbook' to be engaged. What we did last night was 'commercial suicide' in conventional terms and many venues/bookers would balk at the idea of a 'harmony-less' trio but it nevertheless went down a storm. Left with a very big smile on my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Nice one, Bilbo. So will you be sticking with the electric and the "three sets of old faithfuls" for the rebook in June, or using the double bass and the tunes you made the charts for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Not as such. As I said, the reason I had prepared the charts I had for the double bass was in order to pace the evening because I was anxious that, if we did too many 'heavy' tunes early on, I would have to put the double bass aside for the third or even the second set. The two sidemen I had are very strong players and a weak bass would undermine them. Last night, I could do anything anyone wanted to call because I was on home turf but, next time, after I get the double bass fixed, I will be able to increase the dynamic range and textural range. In our discussions, myself and the drummer (Russ Morgan who used to play around London with alto saxophonist Martin Speake, I found out yesterday) came to the conclusion that, as long as the energy levels are there, we can do almost anything (by 'energy', I most certainly do NOT mean 'volume'). My own compositions are mainly contrefacts, new melodies put to old chord sequences etc (I did one on Saturday that was based on the form of The Chicken; I called it 'Fowl Play' - it is, of course, in 7:4). Its a tried and tested method of jazz composition that, whilst I would agree is a shortcut or even a 'cheat', gets you looking at material in a different way. I did another a few weeks ago on based on the chords of 'Lullaby of Birdland' but in 5:4. Anyway, the charts are all about attempting to break up the material in interesting ways to reduce the boredom possible with only two monophonic instruments and drums. We agreed that last night could have been better, even though it went down well. For me, it is about trusting your instincts and going for something you believe in. Its nice to get positive feedback from it, in spite (or bercause?) of the absence of 'Fever'. 'Moondance' and 'The Girl From Ipanema'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Just put an Iain Ballamy LP on - Balloon Man - and I'd forgotten how good it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Currie Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I gave a friend of mine my iPod a couple of months ago to 'revamp' with some nice music. Along with some great classical stuff (he's a trumpeter bloke), I got so much great jazz! First go on shuffle, you've all heard it, Cannonball Adderly quintet with Joe Zawinul [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRrFWp4DUho&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRrFWp4DUho...feature=related[/url] And then the Birdland Big Band (featuring Tommy Kennedy!) playing 'Common Ground'. Favourite Big Band, favourite bassist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 [quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='1209037' date='Apr 23 2011, 11:22 AM']Just put an Iain Ballamy LP on - Balloon Man - and I'd forgotten how good it was. [/quote] An absolute stonker of an album. I played with Iain once and it was him that gave me my mantra 'Learn To Read Music'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteinKent Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I have nothing against Jazz per se but I am sick to the back teeth of the many members of the jazz fraternity who are dismissive, even contemptuous, of rock and pop music in general and its musicians in particular. Aware that I am going to be accused of gross generalisation it is still my experience that jazzers....... A. Want to be elitist but are resentful if not jealous of the popular acclaim enjoyed by rock/pop musicians and .... B. Are more concerned with impressing each other than with entertaining an audience. Yes there is nothing wrong with music being interesting or challenging or complex or unorthodox but that does not make it better and certainly not more sophisticated than a piece of music that has a simple but pleasing melody and/or an infectious , danceable beat. Some time back I was having the rock/pop Vs Jazz debate with two good friends of mine, a married couple . Both were jazzers; he a upright bass player who came from a pop/rock background and she a Pianist who came from a classical background. I was arguing that jazz often distorted the basic principles of rhythm, melody and harmony beyond recognition. She replied....'there are some wonderful harmonies in jazz music. You just have to be a jazz musician to understand and appreciate them' case proven M'lud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='Michael Currie' post='1219070' date='May 3 2011, 07:48 PM']And then the Birdland Big Band (featuring Tommy Kennedy!) playing 'Common Ground'. Favourite Big Band, favourite bassist![/quote] Yeah,great stuff- Tom Kennedy is one of my favourite players.I totally dig the Birdland Big Band,but as far as modern Big Bands go,I prefer Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band. PeteinKent....Let's not turn this thread into a 'Jazz/Rock snobbery' argument. It's a nice healthy thread about some good music and maybe turning people onto something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='PeteinKent' post='1219393' date='May 4 2011, 12:42 AM']I have nothing against Jazz per se but I am sick to the back teeth of the many members of the jazz fraternity who are dismissive, even contemptuous, of rock and pop music in general and its musicians in particular. Aware that I am going to be accused of gross generalisation it is still my experience that jazzers....... A. Want to be elitist but are resentful if not jealous of the popular acclaim enjoyed by rock/pop musicians and .... B. Are more concerned with impressing each other than with entertaining an audience. Yes there is nothing wrong with music being interesting or challenging or complex or unorthodox but that does not make it better and certainly not more sophisticated than a piece of music that has a simple but pleasing melody and/or an infectious , danceable beat. Some time back I was having the rock/pop Vs Jazz debate with two good friends of mine, a married couple . Both were jazzers; he a upright bass player who came from a pop/rock background and she a Pianist who came from a classical background. I was arguing that jazz often distorted the basic principles of rhythm, melody and harmony beyond recognition. She replied....'there are some wonderful harmonies in jazz music. You just have to be a jazz musician to understand and appreciate them' case proven M'lud[/quote] Get off my thread. Start your own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='PeteinKent' post='1219393' date='May 4 2011, 12:42 AM']I have nothing against Jazz per se but I am sick to the back teeth of the many members of the jazz fraternity who are dismissive, even contemptuous, of rock and pop music in general and its musicians in particular. Aware that I am going to be accused of gross generalisation it is still my experience that jazzers....... A. Want to be elitist but are resentful if not jealous of the popular acclaim enjoyed by rock/pop musicians and .... B. Are more concerned with impressing each other than with entertaining an audience. Yes there is nothing wrong with music being interesting or challenging or complex or unorthodox but that does not make it better and certainly not more sophisticated than a piece of music that has a simple but pleasing melody and/or an infectious , danceable beat. Some time back I was having the rock/pop Vs Jazz debate with two good friends of mine, a married couple . Both were jazzers; he a upright bass player who came from a pop/rock background and she a Pianist who came from a classical background. I was arguing that jazz often distorted the basic principles of rhythm, melody and harmony beyond recognition. She replied....'there are some wonderful harmonies in jazz music. [b]You just have to be a jazz musician to understand and appreciate them'[/b] case proven M'lud[/quote] No, you just have to be a musician. Same goes for rock. I know of several rock musicians who have a very well-developed knowledge of music - and they use it to great advantage. Same whatever you're playing, if you know your music theory, particularly chords, modes, rhythms and time signatures you'll get a lot out of what you're doing. And it'll make you a better musician. Yes, I'm sure there'll be posts instancing greats who didn't know much about the theory, but the world has moved on since then and they were geniuses in their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='PeteinKent' post='1219393' date='May 4 2011, 12:42 AM']Aware that I am going to be accused of gross generalisation it is still my experience that jazzers....... A. Want to be elitist but are resentful if not jealous of the popular acclaim enjoyed by rock/pop musicians and .... B. Are more concerned with impressing each other than with entertaining an audience.[/quote] ... must say that I'm not a huge fan of 'traditional' jazz, although I'm starting to get my head around it and enjoy it. But I certainly am a huge fan of the jazz influence in others genres such as hip hop, so to some extent this all depends on what you define as being "jazz"! ;-) [purists no doubt cursing me right now for mentioning hip hop in the same breath...]. That said, I do think traditional jazz is a "musician's music" to some degree. For example: I was going along to a local jazz gig recently and I invited a mate of mine who replied along the lines of "nah, no offence, but you have to be a musician to like jazz". Not a general rule, of course, but I think there's an element of truth in that - as there is with all 'technical' disciplines. If you don't have a keen eye or ear to notice the subtleties, then perhaps some of it gets lost in translation and the net result is - dare I say - a bit boring for some listeners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteinKent Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1219551' date='May 4 2011, 09:46 AM']Get off my thread. Start your own [/quote] Typical Jazz reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 You don't have to be a musician to love Jazz. You just have to want to like it. And hip hop in Jazz is cool if it comes off. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfnR0v0AxDY&feature=related"]Kenny Garrett - Happy People[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteinKent Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='bassace' post='1219637' date='May 4 2011, 10:59 AM']No, you just have to be a musician. Same goes for rock. I know of several rock musicians who have a very well-developed knowledge of music - and they use it to great advantage. Same whatever you're playing, if you know your music theory, particularly chords, modes, rhythms and time signatures you'll get a lot out of what you're doing. And it'll make you a better musician. Yes, I'm sure there'll be posts instancing greats who didn't know much about the theory, but the world has moved on since then and they were geniuses in their time.[/quote] A more typical and certainly more insidious Jazz reply.....What you are implying is that I am simply not a gifted enough musician to understand the technical requirements and the complexities of jazz music. This attitude towards rock/pop musicians almost always goes hand in hand with 'the only reason any musician would not play jazz is because they can't'. Just because a piece of music is technically difficult to play and/or is very complex does not make it engaging on any level to many, if not most, listeners. Often it is quite the opposite. The Jazz fraternity is openly and triumphantly elitist and yet it bristles at the merest hint of criticism particularly from a pop/rock musician because it detests the popular acclaim given to these musicians because of the accessibility of the music they play. It is at the same time spitefully scathing about the musical hoi polloi who are not 'smart' enough appreciate the nuances of the genre and yet at the same time it cries like a baby because it isn't more loved. Well boys and girls of the jazz world....you simply cant be exclusive and popular at the same time. If the Jazzers want to sit in darkened,smokey rooms, tapping their sandled feet and stroking their goatee beards,(and thats just the women!), whilst they impress each other with tuneless noodling thats fine. But they can't be content with that! They have to come into my room where there are I am playing to a host of people who are dancing, singing and, in the words of the late great Lowell George...'Having a time' and call me a musical amoeba because I am playing popular music to the masses. Well I have one thing to say to that and it starts with a B and ends in ollox! Right now I'm off to play a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) [quote name='PeteinKent' post='1219393' date='May 4 2011, 12:42 AM']I have nothing against Jazz per se but I am sick to the back teeth of the many members of the jazz fraternity who are dismissive, even contemptuous, of rock and pop music in general and its musicians in particular. Aware that I am going to be accused of gross generalisation it is still my experience that jazzers....... A. Want to be elitist but are resentful if not jealous of the popular acclaim enjoyed by rock/pop musicians and .... B. Are more concerned with impressing each other than with entertaining an audience. Yes there is nothing wrong with music being interesting or challenging or complex or unorthodox but that does not make it better and certainly not more sophisticated than a piece of music that has a simple but pleasing melody and/or an infectious , danceable beat. Some time back I was having the rock/pop Vs Jazz debate with two good friends of mine, a married couple . Both were jazzers; he a upright bass player who came from a pop/rock background and she a Pianist who came from a classical background. I was arguing that jazz often distorted the basic principles of rhythm, melody and harmony beyond recognition. She replied....'there are some wonderful harmonies in jazz music. You just have to be a jazz musician to understand and appreciate them' case proven M'lud[/quote] Dedicated to you Pete. Must admit my iPod is full of Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band at the moment - some stonking playing. Garry Edited May 4, 2011 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1220121' date='May 4 2011, 06:28 PM']And hip hop in Jazz is cool if it comes off. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfnR0v0AxDY&feature=related"]Kenny Garrett - Happy People[/url][/quote] I got three minutes in and it was still just constant sax blues licks with no end in sight, so I gave up. I've never met a sax player I liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1220121' date='May 4 2011, 06:28 PM']You don't have to be a musician to love Jazz. You just have to want to like it. And hip hop in Jazz is cool if it comes off. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfnR0v0AxDY&feature=related"]Kenny Garrett - Happy People[/url][/quote] Nice vid; like it. ... though when I mentioned hip hop and jazz in the same breath, I was thinking more along the lines of people such as Guru and Digable Planets. Probably a bit dated now - and perhaps not strictly jazz? - but here are a few examples: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eh16a7n_44"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eh16a7n_44[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLknje5E9E&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLknje5E9E...feature=related[/url] [headphones recommended, otherwise you'll miss the low bassline! ;-) ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='PeteinKent' post='1220140' date='May 4 2011, 06:59 PM']A more typical and certainly more insidious Jazz reply.....What you are implying is that I am simply not a gifted enough musician to understand the technical requirements and the complexities of jazz music. This attitude towards rock/pop musicians almost always goes hand in hand with 'the only reason any musician would not play jazz is because they can't'. Just because a piece of music is technically difficult to play and/or is very complex does not make it engaging on any level to many, if not most, listeners. Often it is quite the opposite. The Jazz fraternity is openly and triumphantly elitist and yet it bristles at the merest hint of criticism particularly from a pop/rock musician because it detests the popular acclaim given to these musicians because of the accessibility of the music they play. It is at the same time spitefully scathing about the musical hoi polloi who are not 'smart' enough appreciate the nuances of the genre and yet at the same time it cries like a baby because it isn't more loved. Well boys and girls of the jazz world....you simply cant be exclusive and popular at the same time. If the Jazzers want to sit in darkened,smokey rooms, tapping their sandled feet and stroking their goatee beards,(and thats just the women!), whilst they impress each other with tuneless noodling thats fine. But they can't be content with that! They have to come into my room where there are I am playing to a host of people who are dancing, singing and, in the words of the late great Lowell George...'Having a time' and call me a musical amoeba because I am playing popular music to the masses. Well I have one thing to say to that and it starts with a B and ends in ollox! Right now I'm off to play a gig.[/quote] Oh dear, and I was trying to advance a 'neutral' argument . Can I just risk putting my analogy forward:- I liken a lot of music, including jazz but also classical music to art; we all know what we like and there is a cut off point where we cease to comprehend. In my case it's probably the Impressionists. Dali, Picasso and others I enjoy but can't really claim to understand. Like all art forms others will have their 'limit of understanding/appreciation'. And so it is with music. All sorts of people understand/appreciate (and the lucky ones get to play) all sorts of music. And there we should leave it perhaps, but I know it won't stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamelouis Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='lowdown' post='1220142' date='May 4 2011, 06:01 PM']Dedicated to you Pete. Must admit my iPod is full of Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band at the moment - some stonking playing. Garry[/quote] Love that mate cheers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 [quote name='blamelouis' post='1220203' date='May 4 2011, 07:55 PM']Love that mate cheers ![/quote] Worth checking the albums out, very punchy sound, great playing with superb arrangements. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamd Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Crossover is where it gets interesting for me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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