4 Strings

[quote name='escholl' post='878150' date='Jun 26 2010, 02:08 PM']You're welcome! If it's not too late, you may want to just quickly cut the Neutrik connectors off the ends -- they will be fine, and it's always good to have some spares. [/quote] Amen bro', expensive and worth saving.

Israel uses fabulous musicians, the bass players are awesome, as are their basses - 6 strings being usual. Seen him live once, the whole thing was such fun, like a breath of fresh air. Its not a playing type that comes naturally to me, I can copy but not create easily in that field. To be honest, I can only listen for a limited time too, but its wonderful stuff. Good message too.

Another is Ruach at [url="http://www.ruachbassguitars.co.uk/"]http://www.ruachbassguitars.co.uk/[/url] They have a huge table of different woods and combinations along with various shapes etc. I'm sure they'll make whatever you want, reasonable too. A friend has one, its an absolute work of art in the flesh, beautiful.

For what its worth I use a 2.5XL as my base cab (pun intended!) for everything (home practice, rehearsal, gigs) and, if its a biggish place I put a 115XL under it. Although I don't really like the sound of the 115 on its own terribly much, the combination seems to tighten up the mids, maybe by giving the little 210 less to do, and gives a nice, even spread to the sound, ie lots of low end 'woomph' but keeping definition and clarity (I use a Hartke 350 head set to flat). Makes the sound effortless. No idea why anyone would frown on mixing cabs like this, standard practice I thought. Also don't worry too much about ratings unless you're running your amp flat out and so might threaten the lowest rated cab. Your weak cab will start to complain by losing its real sound, then distorting if its taking too much. Just turn down a bit and all will be restored ... or add another cab! Even in the biggest places I never get beyond half on the amp, normally gets DI'd at larger venues anyway.

"Also, it leaves much less space for resting on your laurels- you're only as good as your next show/record!" I though I was only as good as my last show/record. Wow, my next one will be fabulous so I must be brilliant!

Valves can last for years and years, some outlasting many transistors. Bit like wooden windows, looked after properly they can outlast their modern, plastic equivalent by several times. HOWEVER! They are, of course, made of glass. You don't need to wear gloves as they don't reach the heat of the quartz envelopes of some car headlamps (where the extreme heat burns the grease from your fingermarks and cracks the quartz) and so, as has been mentioned, perfectly safe to handle. Also, they are large for electronic components and are normally just a push fit into their sockets and here is where they can be unreliable if things get knocked around. Many have spring wire clips to keep them in place, but there are still unsoldered contacts. Your valve will require replacement at some stage in its life. As they are pretty cheap, if you want to maintain reliability pop in a new one every 5 years or so before it goes microphonic etc. I have a similar situation to yours in that my Hartke has one valve in the pre-amp, never keep a spare for mine, doesn't mean I'll not get caught out but I don't expect to be (I DO carry spare fuses!). If the valve goes mid-performance I'll not have time to change it anyway - can just turn up the transistor preamp anyway. Just as an anecdote, my wife's dad made a 2x12 valve combo for his band in the late 50s (as they did back then) and it had a hard life of regular use for many years (handling two guitars and the vocals mike!). It then sat in his shed since the late 60s, nice and damp (mouldy speaker cloth etc). We dug it out a few weeks back but started up first time and sounded great (despite very noisy pots etc). Got used by my lad's band for guitar but, not surprisingly, packed up. Not a valve but a capacitor! Valves are all original, filthy dirty, when I approached someone to repair it he made no suggestion of replacing the valves, will put the original ones back in. Your amp will come with instructions, just keep to them. The amp Class is nothing to do with quality of components, just the way it operates electronically. Class A amplifies the entire sound wave (or cycle) (like an ac power supply) but are notoriously inefficient (~20% of the electrical energy is turned to sound) and so are power hungry and so get hot. They're not necessarily the best, just simple. The Old amp in the Father In Law's combo is Class B, or Push-Pull, where it amplifies one side of the wave and the other as a pair (rather like 2 dc supplies added together). Its more efficient (~50%) but things get awkward when the two halves are re-joined as they need to be linear - hence the amps name 'Linear'!). Class D are very complicated but operate with high efficiency and so are suitable for the examples given in a previous post, ie cars and loud hailers, where the power supplies are limited. With regard to changing valves because they are made in China or Russia, well, that's up to individual choice, but I would suggest many people will hear no difference (especially in a band mix) but there are plenty of sites with all sorts of info. Most of these will tell you what slight differences in sound to expect and so you might choose a valve which happens to be made in China for its middly sound, for example. If you find a make that proves to be poor in reliability or to have a particular sonic character, then let us know.

Used to, many years ago, when I first started, not any more though. I must say it would be great to look back on, especially with the fellas I played with but I have enough trouble getting rehearsed for the next one! Memory certainly slips, I've seen videos of me playing gigs I have no memory of whatsoever. 800 is pretty impressive, I think even with a list of them, I'd not remember the large proportion of them. Certainly lots of stories though, I've always thought being in a band is as much about decrepit vans, weird people, general larking about etc as about the music.

[quote name='OldGit' post='883065' date='Jul 1 2010, 03:22 PM']Now that's a different market. Selling your band to agents you'll need a offline marketing such as professionally produced paper brochures and DVD's with professional photography, video and sound samples.[/quote] And a 'showcase' which is how (I understand) agents find their acts.

Just a thought on advertising, aren't agents worth using? Most people who book function bands just go to an agent and choose want they want, rather than trawl through the internet hoping to find something.

Wonderful, although some of the covers are a little uncomfortable hearing Babbits take on some of those classics is great, also the Funk Brothers only tracks are pure gold. Many thanks!

Sounds to me that you need to get to try some 410 type cabinets so you can really know what to expect. When I saw your first post my immediate thought was 'try it out and see if it suits you' rather than our various experiences and opinions. For me its 10s always, I have a ported 15 if its a big place and this gives a little more depth (my old Trace 1518 was super sub - gone now - sniff), I find using just 15s to be rather hollow sounding, but that's me. Having tried some cabs with 10s you might find you don't like it after all and can really sleep well!

EQ for clarity is, I suppose, the subject of another thread and I'm sure it would run and run. However, a lot of amps add from 0. ie, turn all the tone control (or graphic sliders) to zero and the amp goes silent. Knocking too much of anything off will not just sound quieter, it will be quieter. Some create their happy smile by just dropping the mids, their amp will be quieter than flat. Might need to up the Master at that point. (I realise when you say '3', you mean 3 O'Clock which is a hefty boost!) Of course the only real answer to be loud and punch through is to plug in a Stingray!

[quote name='chris_b' post='881935' date='Jun 30 2010, 01:55 PM']On an outdoors gig you aren't hearing any sound reflections so you'll sound much quieter than you expect. You might need to turn up but you definitely will need to add more punch in the way of low mids and mids. "I've never had a problem with my Acoustic stuff, despite only being 125w (4ohms) or 175w (2ohms)": This is a very small rig for an outdoors gig. "Ashdown is not as loud as 300w suggests": I think you are right. "Cheap speakers are not very efficient": You are right. "Guitarists with large valve amps need to be educated": Get your rig right first. "It was because it was an open-sided marquee, and in an indoor gig situation things would be different": You are right. My thoughts would be to get a quality 500 watt amp and a good 410 or 210. You will then be right for all types of gig.[/quote] Could try just adding the 210 to the bass bins (its all money in the end!) as a start.

If something can't be heard, my mantra for mixing is to listen to everything else to see why before making anything louder. Any 300W bass amp that's been honestly rated should be loud enough for all but big festivals it is likely the problem is elsewhere. I have a 350W rig and I can't go anywhere near it at much above half volume. Guitar valve amps are deafening from 30W upwards. With 4x12s being used, are they simply too loud or even just too bassy to allow your bass to cut through, ie you competing for the same frequencies as someone else? Is your own sound muddy and indistinct (PA bass bins are not designed to give distinction, just low down whoomph, the distinction stuff comes with the other speakers in a PA)? Is it 'clanky' and similar to the guitar frequencies? I would try amp different settings (if you use them), experiment with a different guitar if you can, swap the bass amps so you use the Ashdown with the Acoustic cabs. Meanwhile, setting about the long term task of getting the guitarists to turn down a bit. (My hunch is that its the bass bins you're using, either really inefficient in terms of sound/W or in terms of reproducing the sounds you expect/want to hear where you are standing, try different cabs.)

Well, looks like I need to have the mic pointing upwards, downwards, up high, down low....! Thanks for all this, seems there isn't a 'best' way so I'm gong to have some fun finding the 'best' for the day. I must say, I like the idea (also mentioned in an article by another chap) of moving my ears around and placing the mic where it simply sounds best! Just hope we can get a sound we're both happy with before to much valuable time has passed. Thanks again, any other advice, keep it coming...

That's great, thanks. Can you remember the difference in tone between the two? My only experience was of a student performance once and he had a piezo. It sounded very thin, it was all there, nice and crisp, but didn't give that lovely body in the sound. I suggested to use a mic (which the sound guy humbly did!) as well as the piezo and it made the world of difference. May have been a cheap piezo unit. We pointed the mic roughly at the F hole, as you suggest. The room is quite dead but I like the idea of the 4-5 feet away. A violinist once suggested this for his violin (well, 3 ft!). He said it allowed the harmonics to form without picking up too much scratching, which you wouldn't otherwise hear unless you put your ear to the strings. Not sure about the harmonics bit, but I trusted him, did mean absolute silence though as the gain goes up!

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='880015' date='Jun 28 2010, 04:21 PM']I think the hypothetical concept is getting lost now. Perhaps we should rename the thread... [b]Imaginary place with an infinite amount of possible amenities, excruciatingly and somewhat ironically the only rule is "you're only allowed one of your basses" bass[/b]. [/quote] Apologies. Really I should stay faithful to my Jaydee, but currently I wouldn't be without my 1979 Stingray. (Pic from previous owner, now has black scratchplate and generally shinier).

I wouldn't be able to take any of mine as they are all electric. If I was stranded from an ocean liner maybe the ship band had an upright I could pinch and spend my days learning to play properly. Otherwise it would have to be sea-bass only.

I have a little project which will include a bit of double bass recording. The player has a totally acoustic bass (no piezos etc) and I have an old, large diaphragm c ondenser mic and an SM58 type. The interface has two inputs. Doesn't need to be stereo, the track is an ambient sort with minimal instrumentation and playing. I therefore can't just use the old Precision with flats, I want that airy, deep sound with all the body of a db played with fingers. I'll have the bass and player in two weeks, I can have him for two evenings which are a week apart so I can't leave him set up in the meantime. I also don't have much time to experiment and he doesn't have much recording experience himself. Never done this before, any advice, experiences, pearls of wisdom etc would be gratefully appreciated.

Just a thought, why do you not connect the second cab from your amp instead of the daisy chain? Less contacts for the signal path and halves the signal going through the first lead. More reliable as if the first lead goes down the second cab is still running. (Impedance should be the same as the speaker through socket should put the second in parallel anyway.) Speakons are designed for speaker signal and connection whereas jack are general purpose. To this end its +1 from to the locking and extra contact area and also +1 for putting a speakon in your 2nd cab. No need for for more than one type of connector then.

[quote name='owen' post='879359' date='Jun 27 2010, 11:31 PM']I had never heard about these, I read a thread about them, watched some youtube vids and bought one within 18 hours. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM[/url][/quote] Thanks for the thoughts on these, look very useful for getting something like a db sound on a recording without actually hiring one and a player, albeit rather costly. I would think about one for quite a bit less. As a side comment, I notice the guy in the little video plays with his thumb and forefinger position rather like Jamerson's 'Hook'. Seems a natural position for people used to db playing to adapt to a bass guitar (or uke!) except the thumb now dangles in mid-air instead of being rooted on the edge of the fingerboard.

[quote name='owen' post='879359' date='Jun 27 2010, 11:31 PM']I had never heard about these, I read a thread about them, watched some youtube vids and bought one within 18 hours. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM[/url][/quote] Thanks for the thoughts on these, look very useful for getting something like a db sound on a recording without actually hiring one and a player, albeit rather costly. I would think about one for quite a bit less. As a side comment, I notice the guy in the little video plays with his thumb and forefinger position rather like Jamerson's 'Hook'. Seems a natural position for people used to db playing to adapt to a bass guitar (or uke!) except the thumb now dangles in mid-air instead of being rooted on the edge of the fingerboard.

I think I fit in with most on Stevie Wonder, ie admire the musicians and the performances but can cringe a bit. I really like a lot of the songs but I Just Called makes me whince. I wouldn't have missed it, I love watching him and aspire to that elite level but I don't believe I have any of his records. For those that don't know it, its worth Googling the story of Nate's involvement with Stevie, great story. One of my heroes.

[quote name='Musicman20' post='879355' date='Jun 27 2010, 11:24 PM']On superstition it appears Nate took his bass off to play keys! It was really noticeable.[/quote] That's because Superstition has a keyboard bass, played by SW originally. Also, its in Eb, but then I think there's enough Eb in SWs set to make Nate detune his bass by a semi-tone, as I understand.