fatback

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1326025411' post='1491133'] After a brief try out, I find Rabbath very simple for linear (ie, up or down) lines but if you are string crossing back and forth I end up in a right pickle, as my old Grandad would say [/quote] Interesting. Can't think why it should be different though. I was watching Rabath's Art of the Bow the other night and he makes a point about fingering I wasn't aware of before. Instead of pressing down with all fingers equally to 'fret' a note, he advocates using the pivot so that the relevant finger(s) come down in an arc, with a twist of the wrist towards or away from you. Talking about bowing he says it vastly improves the tone because of the power concentrated on the string that way. I tried it with pizz and it seems to improve my tone there too - eliminates the occasional 'fuzziness' that's so frustrating. It's a very decisive way to play too, if that's not an odd way to put it. That man is is an inexhausitible source of insights, no doubt about it. I mean to get his 'Art of the left hand' but it's very pricey, so i keep putting it off. I really should just go for it.

bout the same time. OK, a tie

[quote name='steantval' timestamp='1325889104' post='1489595'] I'm sure I have an original Skid Row album stored up in my loft, Mr Gary Moore on guitar, I think he was only about 16 years old around that time. [/quote] I'm sure I saw him with Skid Row back then (I was even younger) play a song by himself sitting behind the drumkit and banging out the kick drum. Or did I dream that? They never get the credit they deserve for being Ireland's first real rock band.

A hero, and a poet. My first gig ever was a lunchtime Thin Lizzie show in a theatre when I was twelve (with my mum), and I never got over it I met hiom later, when I was a young teenager, and he was such a nice guy. I was at their farewell gig (another daytime job) in the Dublin mansion house just before they left for England. In the middle of the gig he broke a G string, asked the audience if anyone had one spare, and then sent somebody to the shop. What a mover on stage . He calmed down a bit after he went to england, but in the early gigs he was always bringing his left knee up to chin and stalking around the stage, knocking over mike stands. Saw a doco on BBC4 last week (?) and it reminded me that almost no histories of Lizzie seem to remember the huge influence of the wonderful Skid Row and Brush Shields, the main man. Awesome bass player and taught Phil, I think. Anyone remember Skid Row (the original that is) ? 'Black Boys on the Corner?' Just like a Skid Row song.

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1325872398' post='1489238'] Now you are the kind of teacher everyone should have, Jake. Willing to try something new when it comes along. That's what keeps techniques moving forward. [/quote] +1 to that

Both spot on hilarious. Thanks

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1325854803' post='1488768'] Great, thanks for that. Going to have a try-out this weekend as it looks a very sensible methodology [/quote] Let us know how you get on. I found it straining on the little finger at first until I paid more attention to using 3 and 4 together properly on the pivot. Apart from that, it's been pretty easy to get the hang of, and there's none of the Simandl business of slogging through the positions before you can play in all keys.

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1325833897' post='1488388'] This Rabbath method looks very interesting for someone (ie, me!) Who can lose his way on the 'fretboard' when moving up and down the neck of a DB. Two questions though, Fatback: In the vid, Sturm teaches first position with the first fingered note on the G string as an A. If you wanted to, say, play G# followed by A, would you use your first finger for both and slide from one note to the next (which I assume as it maintains integrity of overall hand/thumb position)? And in the second position, is your thumb opposite (using the G string again) the C or C# (I am assuming the latter, so your first finger falls naturally on C)? Cheers Clarky [/quote] Basically, the thumb positions are at the harmonics. I tend to think of them on the E string cos it's nearest to my thumb, and on the guitar that's where the side markers are, but that's just because i don't naturally think Simandl. If I understand it correctly, you could slide G#-A or not depending on what you needed to do next. I add another thumb position at the A, as I've got small hands and that makes everything easier for me. The second thumb position is C on the G string. I don;t know whether it's right or wrong, but my 'rest' position tends to be with the thumb opposite the second finger, as it's easy to pivot either direction from there. I saw Rabbath interviewed somewhere and he insisted that 'fingering doesn't matter'. And of course that makes sense when the accuracy is coming from the thumb position. You can finger any way seems most efficient. I found that very liberating. The way i see it, Rabbath is great for a bass guitarist because you have the map of the fingerboard already in your head. The big challenge for me, i find, is getting absolutely accurate and consistent with the thumb positions, and everything depends on that. At least there are only a few to worry about. People often disapprove of side markers, but I've found them invaluable for constantly checking the thumb in practice, and you don't rely on them anyway if you're reading.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1325774005' post='1487442'] Cheers Fatback, I did see this the other but it was really informative. Very interesting stuff. I'm enjoying playing upright, but I'm fighting it at the moment trying to get my intonation together and it's just going to take a lot of work. Makes me appreciate people like John Patitucci and Christian McBride all the more for being able to double up on electric as well as acoustic. The other thing not helping is that the strings that came on the bass aren't great. Think I'm going to order up some D'Addario Helicore Hybrids for it when I get the chance. [/quote] Strings are a whole world again. Lots of good info on here though. I ended up going for metal strings so i could use a mag pickup if I had feedback problems. But naturally, having gone that route, i then found I didn't have feedback problems at all with my piezzo, so needn't have bothered. Upright seems to be all like that.

Here is the full set of Sturm discussions of Rabbath. I found the last one especially useful. www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvELQVB37yo www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbF6QP-FoY www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BW8UVI0Wo0 www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRAEMzMKQQU

[quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1325697886' post='1486289'] I stick my lower jaw out when playing DB for some reason...after a few sets it gets a little sore. I've tried to work on it but I'm too busy playing and forget. I'll end up looking like Quagmire [/quote] An unfortunate video showed i played with my mouth open. I didn't seem to be actually drooling and slavering, but there was a sense of 'any minute now'. On bass - Quasimodo.

Simandl nearly made me quit. If you're a bass player who used one finger per fret it's hugely frustrating. The breakthrough for me was discovering the Rabbath technique; it uses a thumb pivot just like you use on electric. Better still, there's only half a dozen positions to get accurate about about rather than zillions, and they're thumb positions rather than 'fret' positions. Much easier to get intonation right because you're not moving your arm as much as with Simandl. You can happily add Simandl as an option as you go along, of course. I made the whole thing easy for myself by adding some white sticky markers to the side of the fingerboard where the thumb positions are. There's no quality beginner's book for Rabbath that i know of, but I found this video series really helpful. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g[/media] I just applied the fingering to other non-rabbath books, and get along that way. The huge bonus of the method is that you already know how to play in all the keys; all you have to do is restrict the number of your bass guitar thumb positions rather than having potentially a thumb at every 'fret'. The downside of Rabbath is that you may find it hard to get a teacher to feel comfortable with you doing it. The upside is that you'll certainly be gigging much faster than with Simandl. EDIT: @ bluejay, ust saw your comment about small hands. I have too. It's the pivot that makes everything work with Rabbath, and I add another thumb position as well. Important point here is that Rabbath uses 1,2,4 but the span is wider, giving an extra note.

You won't regret giving it a shot, and sooner rather than later is the right way. I wish I'd started sooner. I'm only 17 months in, but this is what I've concluded: I'd strongly suggest [u]not[/u] getting a new £500 bass. Search through the for-sales here, and you'll see a history of much better prospects at good prices from people you can trust. Real bargains sometimes too. It's been said before, but it bears repeating - get a lesson from a teacher straight away (even before you buy a bass). If you don't get proper instruction on technique you could hurt yourself badly; it's a very physical instrument. As said above, don't try to play your band tunes straight away. I'd say don't try to play any real tunes at all until you know what a decent technique would be, because just banging your way through a tune regardless is no good at all. Some people might say this is an extreme view, but it doesn't take many weeks to get a good idea of what technique you should be aiming for. Then you just make sure that treat good technique as more important than just getting through the tune. This is where I'll get into trouble. In my experience, it was totally wrong to take up the bow straight away. That, in combination with the dreaded Simandl very nearly made me quit and held back my progress (until, after about three months I put both away). In my opinion, bowing involved mastering far too many new things at the same time for a beginner. I've found it much better to break the whole process down: get the right hand pizz together using open strings. Stick with that alone for weeks. Then get the left hand going with good technique and constantly checking your intonation. That will keep you going for the next year. While you're doing both of those, build up some reading ability. THEN have a go at the bow. By that stage, your left hand won't be a problem, you'll be reading and your ears will have developed too. Do be prepared for a lot of initial frustration, but much of that comes from the shock of finding yourself suddenly a beginner instead of an experienced bassist. The rest of the frustration comes from what I've described above: trying to master too many different aspects at once. From what I've said, you wouldn't think it was the best fun in the world, would you? But it is.

Can you browse from USB by folder, or do these players dump all the tracks together in one list? Great info, thanks.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1324637820' post='1476462'] You wait....... [url="http://www.worldofbasses.de/index.html"]http://www.worldofbasses.de/index.html[/url] [/quote] omg. And not a price tag in sight. No danger to me though. A bit like gassing for an Aston Martin; would you really want to take one to the supermarket car park? I'd end up getting a music room specially built to house the thing. And air conditioning. And insurance. And swearing not to play it while pissed. And no matter when I played it I'd still sound like cr*p. :0

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' timestamp='1324594334' post='1476182'] If its not good enough for John Giblin, its not good enough for me. [/quote] Since taking up upright I've been totally GAS free on the principle that my shortcomings are way beyond anything that can be fixed in a shop. Quite relaxing, really.

Thanks for the tips, lads. atm I've enough knackered CDs in the car to fill several good sized potholes. Can't wait to get rid of the lot.

I think Santa is going to bring me a new car radio (yaay!), but which one should I ask for? I really want one that will play MP3s direct from a USB stick and display the folders (albums, that is. Call me old-fashioned). I don't care if it has a CD player or not, but I suppose they all do. I don't need to play from an ipod or phone either. Any ideas? I've trawled the web but it's pretty confusing.

+1 for the Aebersold playa-longs. I've started using them lately, and it's great to be able to turn off the bass, play away and then do it again with Ron Carter or some such godlike figure showing how it could be done. Vol 002 'nothin but blues' is fun.

Golihurmusic.com does a very nice adjustable bridge for £40 -ish plus postage and deliver very quickly from the states. Got mine from them and had a luthier fit it. imo adjustable is worth the small amount extra it costs, and handy if you think you might later want to try the much praised Full Circle pickup.

[quote name='janmaat' timestamp='1323900146' post='1468611'] Preamp [/quote] +1 And test for feedback at higher volumes. If you have a problem, raise the cab on a table or beer crate or something.

Great advice from Gareth there. On the subject of 4/4 though, I've never handled one, but if it's much bigger and/or heavier than the usual hybrid 3/4 I'd think twice. I was surprised by how much heavier my bass was than an all ply, presumably because of the solid top). And when it comes to humping the thing down the road from a parking space and into a crowded club by the front door through the queue of weaving drunks, the idea of an even bigger bass is pretty scary. Its at those times that playing the mandolin gets serious thought.

Regarding your budget, it's worth keeping in mind that you might need to spend a fair bit more than the cost of the bass, even if you buy new. Setup £150-200 (unless the shop include that), pickup £60-100, preamp another £80+, maybe different strings £100, and a bow £100. And some kind of relationship counseling. It was the extras that made me look at second hand, along with the fact of the wood maybe being more settled and stable etc. The cash saved covered the bits and bobs.

And if you think you've got a problem, living in a flat I used to have to practice the trumpet by standing in a closet playing up the sleeve of an overcoat. Really. Bass seemed the easier option.