JTUK

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1349798573' post='1830693'] Thanks for your input guys. I have the feeling that 2 DB112 is not going to be enough coming from a 700 Watt Bergantino cab? So you all seem to prefer 12" over 10" speakers? [/quote] I would expect that as well... altho I'm running 2xAE112's and they are second best to the 2x210's I use as my number 1 rig, IMO. It would be nice if Aguilar did a DB610, If you are pushing out the volume from a NV412 and on large-ish stages in a 1000 seater, that is where you need the bigger rig. I doubt my 2x210's would do it without very decent monitoring and maybe fills, with a 550w amp. ..and I am not sure I would be wanting to hook up less cab power into a DB750 that might have to ramp it up a bit. IIRC, a DB750 runs 750 into 4..?? so I'd want 1000watts of cab to be stress-free..but maybe that is just me..? I think chris_b runs a 750 watt amp into his Bergs...and he gets more input into his signal than I would... maybe he can say whether he thinks his 2x112's are up to it..He may even run 3x112 for loud gigs..??

Missed it..mores the pity

These so called prestigous venues...?? maybe they are the ones that pay well..do things properly and look after the band with a decent sound crew, stage and light rig,,plus a rider..?? well, they have to work financially as well... If we are offered those gigs... we have to understand that the tickets start from £8 and that we need to sell 400...so to invite in a 'support' band you are are looking to pay them their best best pub fee..in all probability, and for their part, sell 100 plus tickets. You would be surprised ...if you offer that deal,,,,how many bands turn it down.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1349789850' post='1830541'] Dark Lord, although we have different views on this subject, it's almost contradictory of me to say, that I agree and sympathise with your comments, and thanks for recognising the fact that I am not one of the "I don't give a toss" brigade, because I am looking at the argument from both sides. I sympathise with the guys in your band who are going through hard times, but I can honestly say that on 9th October 2011, due to arthritis, I had an operation on my thumb in which they put in a prosthesis, unfortunately it was not successful and had to have it removed on 16th June 2012. also I have arthritis in other parts of my body, and a total of six prolapsed discs in my back, so today marks exactly [u]one year of being off sick[/u] (that's why I spend so much time on Basschat). Since February, I have been on £68 a week statutory pay, and I still have three years of my mortgage to pay, so I'm not in a position where I want to, or can afford to play for nothing, but for the reasons I stated earlier, we are a decent enough band, but we just don't seem to be able to break onto the local circuit. I can't walk more than 100 yards or so, without having to stop for a rest, and I need a stick a lot of the time now, but please believe me when I say I do not feel sorry for myself, because I spent years, bringing seriously ill patients, some only babies to hospital from all parts of the UK, so I know that I am one of the lucky ones, but apart from my family, playing bass in a band situation is the biggest enjoyment I get, even if when we do gig, it's painful during each set, but the adrenalin carries me through. [/quote] Good post

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1349781114' post='1830342'] Sort of inspired by the "Do Fender Make Basses" thread. 20 something bloke [i]"Your band's good. Like an old guys Green Day" [/i] Very attractive woman in her 30s (just my type in every way) approaches me as I'm heading to pack my gear away. [i]"Hey you're the bass player. Loved your stuff. Is this the secret place where you keep all your gear?"[/i] "Yep" [i]"Can you do something for me? I'm a bit embarassed to ask"[/i] "(gulp) Go ahead. What can I do?" [i]"Can I leave my coat back here?"[/i] [/quote] Sometimes that is as good as it gets But I'd let her... and ask what her mate is drinking

Maybe... but my post was in context with the OP here... so wasn't about to bring up the other topic. I don't always like the sound of my own voice

Regulating the Music business... ?? ho hum..good luck with that. But sure, I do believe that certains standards should be the adhered to and even if music is hugely subjective and therefore GREY.. it doesn't help if the conditions are so loose people can pretty much do what they want with regard to admin and payment Once again..this is why making licenses easier..read cheaper/free, IMV..is NOT a good thing, IMO. It only encourages the blackness of the economy. As for tax, PLI etc etc... do people not have to sign for the money they get...? If pubs could not dish out £2-300 out of the till...as was the building trade practice of old.. then that would tighten up the money supply and maybe make more bands more legal...??

Sounds like he is has sent out a standard letter to all the enquires he may get. He may not have done much research but you can use this as a lesson in what you can ask for and expect out of gigs... If you are prepared to work free and it isn't too far, then what have you got to lose..? it could give you a sense of reference..

Personally, I wouldn't consider doing an original gig unpaid..it all comes done to hours worked and it all comes down to how you have sold the gig. Recently had this conversation with a 'manager' who wanted his new artist showcased. I told him to prepare for a bill of £250 for every gig she does, minimum, from the band...excluding other exes like petrol He went with a young band who would do it for nothing. Wasn't fussed..I've done my trawling thru town and it isn't me who is getting signed. I don't think the band he used was good enough...and I don't the artist is signed to this day. monkees/peanuts, get what you pay for/blah blah ... but someone will do it.

I nick things and incorporate them and mix them up with other stuff and then take from a pretty diverse set of 'influences'..altho that is too strong a word..they are basically bits I like. I will them absorb them within my own style and to a few people...will sound like my own. I am a total mish-mash of 1001 directions and I will have one of two things that are strictly all me.. couldn't have come from anywhere else. I don't think about it any more than that... and I have got to a stage where everything I play has my take on it. I like it this way....

Martin, That is what I meant by being gob smacked by how many round here use it. He told me he used one.

For me, it's simple..you want a decent job, you pay our price. If we don't agree, get someone else..and there are plenty around. Bands doing stuff for free wont really impact on what I do as it would be chalk and cheese. If they could charge for it, then they probably most likely would.. read..try stopping them.. Biggest case round here..would be a few name festivals that want to employ local bands FREE and think they are doing them a favour by putting them on a decent stage..and more fool you fo going for that one, IMO. Plus most pubs want a beer festival of sorts and some might even do it quite well...but the one thing they will scimp on... is the bands or hide behind a charity thing and that means all the acts don't get paid All this is fine..but the bar staff gets paid as does everyone else...etc etc .. I would initially support this idea to get something started but a recent festival did everything right but get a rosta of decent bands...IMO To put that right would cost them a few thousand and they may decide that is too risky..but then the outlay on everything else was big anyway. And the saturday night which should have been slamming.. was not so well attended. It wasn't that the people didn't turn up... they just didn't stay much past 10.. ??? My view would have been that they committed a large sum, why bottle out at the last hurdle...?

With the track you mentioned..it would be quite obvious the vocals were treated Martin, so that is less of a 'con; trick, as it were, in my eyes. But since I mentioned the whole thing... I am pretty surprised how many people use it round here... gob-smacked really, which just highlights my not liking the process, more than anything.

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1349719040' post='1829599'] Well, I wouldn't play any venue unless I was being paid £10,000 per hour. So I am obviously a better musician than you. [/quote] Funnily enough, I know a player who has probably earnt that much per hour or gig and they would be very very well known on a forum like this. I bet half the bands here do one of their numbers at least... but you wouldn't put them in the top 5 of local players at what they do...prorbaly nowhere near, in fact Go figure...

You get what you pay for... but even so, £30 sounds worth a punt for a practice amp.. I wouldn't be thinking I could gig it... not that I would anyway

Your criteria is your criteria.... and there are many many dreamers and weirdos out there.. but you need to throw enough mud against the wall and get out there .. Once you are ina strong position of choice then you can get PICKY....

Simple economics around her are something like this.. Venue has to sell the equivalent of 200 pints per night to pay an band £300..and if they have security, maybe that is more..depends if that is sorely on the music night. In my town of around 130,000 there can be 5 regular town venues with recognised bands..and then any number of other efforts. There are only 2 fully regular and recognised venues/pubs that all the better bands in the county would acknowledge... altho you could sub-divide the county into 3 or 4 regions. These venues have worked very hard over a long period..18 months plus, to get where they are now..which is simply to be mostly in a position to book..AND PAY.. for any band on the circuit. They are in the position to pick and choose the bands that will draw and therefore perpetuate the whole process with a degree of certainty. If any bands offer to play these places for free, they'd get laughed at..the standard is higher and you need to convince you are worth booking...but by the same token, the venue isn't going to even look at you if you haven't got a decent pitch and everything else to comvince him you'll sell 200 plus pints..at least..!! I understand pubs/venues putting down their fees..or trying to... but no punter should mind 30p a pint going on for music nights. You get what you pay for... and that extra can keep the standard and fees up, hopefully. I am against more music venues if it waters down the whole set-up..ditto cheap licensing. I think there are too many bands already chasing gigs and too many of those forces some of them to desperately seek gigs via any method..including playing for free. They should make PLI and PAT compulsory and also a mimimum electrical standard for venues..not make it easier to bypass these useful requirements. Or, ban all bands who can't read from playing unless they pass their pratical

Qute a few beer festivals this year where the venue/pub has a lot of land and put a lot of effort into the infrastructure..marquees, generator, stage, P.A and extra parking with all the costs involved...but somehow, the bands are expected to play for free so they get the event they pay for. I can understand that 10 bands over the weekend will be costly but those bands need to be popular enough to draw the crowds or they aren't any use to man or beast. My take is... if everyone is working for free and it is for charity... then I'll listen, otherwise we don't even think about it but Bands paying for free is PITA... We were talking about the going rate just the other day and a worthwhile band should be £70 a skull..as the gent put it..but if you can't put a value on your services why should you be valued by anyone..???

I know the Ampeg 410 HLF and it is decent. Weighty but has tilt back and wheels which make it more sensible. I think the DB210 pr is better and tighter..plus has a vintage vibe and the advantage of a decent carry. You might not like the mini stack idea for visual stages tho... but maybe a 212 and a 210 would stack pretty nicely if you could get past the imbalance of the 350w 210 and 600w 212..?

Need to see pics as I think there are cab builders and cab builders.... I understand the finish might be a variable but it would still help to see a finished effort. IMO.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1349695284' post='1829120'] We're looking at getting on of these for our band. Not so much for auto-tune (although we'll probably use it while writing), more for inspiration and beefing out the sound, adding a bit of harmony and general effects. Used in the right way it's a tool rather than a cheat. Plus the voicelive 2 fits with our on stage setup anyway as we program our drums etc and can feed it the relevant keys as it goes aswell as kicking in effects and patches automatically from the computer. If people take a dislike to it... my advise? Don't come see us We're on a mission to sound the best we can sound and to get our recorded sound live we need something like this as we layer our vocalist. [/quote] That is ok..will you be telling people you do this or is it really obvious..? or would you rather people didn't twig..? I think this is the crux of the problem Of course, we know this stuff happens in the industry and we expect it from Cowell and Britney and the like.. but I tend to be from the LIve is Live school or you aren't upto much.. Was watching a band 'Within Tempration' online..and that girl can really sing but not one BV amongst them in a 6 piece band.. WTF..!!!!

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1349646086' post='1828762'] Hate autotune, also hate digital harmonies. A human voice singing in tune sounds good, a voice that has been corrected doesn't - it gets very tiring to listen to. Same goes for harmonies. Avoid. And if you can't do the vocals you want with the band you've got then you're out of luck. [/quote] My thinking really... you can either do the track justice with what you have or you can't. A bit of imagination might get you past the problem via a vocal re-work or something, but to have 1 BV sound Huuuuuuge is a bit sly IMO. We started with pretty average BV's..if that.. in our band and would certainly have been a candidate for 'augmentation' had we thought about it, but we worked hard with guys putting their hands up and doing what they can do and we sound pretty decent back there now, IMO. I tend to think that if you want to do a track and you don't have the tools that it needs then think again.. but to kick in a pedal and 'con' people is tacky and if they are sussed... they deserve all the stick they might get.

I'd laugh at a cover band doing that......tbh

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1349638421' post='1828613'] DB112 and GS112 use the same chassis but tune the cab diierently...so the GS has BIG low end and a mid scoop..so you know where the tune bias is. I assume they follow this idea with the 212 and 412 configs and retain the diierent voices between GS and DB cabs. I don't think they sell GS 10" cabs here... I don't know what the SL range is like but I tend not to like NEO's over ceramics from what I have tried...but this is just my pet 'theory' [/quote] They do a GS410 so assume that it is scooped as well...not heard one tho

DB112 and GS112 use the same chassis but tune the cab diierently...so the GS has BIG low end and a mid scoop..so you know where the tune bias is. I assume they follow this idea with the 212 and 412 configs and retain the diierent voices between GS and DB cabs. I don't think they sell GS 10" cabs here... I don't know what the SL range is like but I tend not to like NEO's over ceramics from what I have tried...but this is just my pet 'theory'