JTUK

When you get called to dep, the idea is to be sold the gig, IMO... so you want to know it will be a blast, you want to know the band can hold up their end and you want the gig to be hassle free. If it was a case of getting in on a cheap gig with a good new team of players, then you'd think about it, maybe..but the giveaway is that it is a standard party set for £400 for a 8 piece...???? For that money you just want to turn up and play ..rehearsals are out. Sorry, but the videos are no encouragement that this would not be a few hours HARD work. They may be better than that...but they may not. £50 is pub gig work and there seems no indication how long these guys are booked for... They might be the type who will play on and on... They will be lucky to fill it and get away with the gig, IMO...but good luck to them.

first sesion I know of was '77 with Lenny White. Look at for the Grusin bros albums in mid 80's... Luther Vandross and Grover W..for starters.

If you go and see other bands...take note of any players you like and get their number...that way you aren't totally in the dark. You don't really want to have to take a punt with guys who don't dep a lot as those guys know the score and should be able to deliver to a degree... So, once you have got a few numbers, make sure you look after them so their number one gig is yours..

[quote name='bigd1' timestamp='1350294243' post='1836798'] Perhaps I have the wrong attitude, although I did think I understood the world of musicians. We have a band who need a dep, they are not your normal 4 rock/pop band, there are 8 musicians playing. The songs are not a great challenge to a experienced Bass Guitarist, but the band wants to (as we all do) put on a great show. So to be safe they want any deps to do 4 rehearsals, money is not great but when is it ever. What is the problem ? Some of you seem to think if they are only offering £50 it's an insult ? You are worth far more than that. Come on, get over yourselves, it's a gig, not very often you get to play with a group of 8. They NEED a bass player. How many of you who think this is beneath you play in this band, and have you done ANY gigs in the last few months, for any money ?? Get out and play, I have never worried about how much I'm getting paid, I like playing music far to mush to worry about that. [/quote] This is a wind-up post, isn't it..???

PLI is largely the venues issue but that isn't to say that bands should completely abstain. Festivals, in particular are very keen on PAT and PLI...so you can knock yourself off that bill if you don't have them, IME. If your light rigfalls over..?? who is liable, venue or band..?? grey area..?? maybe. I can see hearing loss being an issue somewhere down the line... does the user claim against venue..most probably as it will be a cummalative effect so not any one band...but factory bosses are having to contend with this issue now... so I expect to see it at some point in the future, possibly, regarding venues..but maybe you would have to proove you worked there for 20 years or something..??

I wouldn't play for nothing... . just does not really enter into the thinking. My first question is 'how much'....?? and altho we make it as fun as possible, and it needs to be otherwise why do it, it is better when you are valued and people go out of their way to look after you As regards tax... it is upto the individual to take care of his earnings and I assume the others do exactly that on a self assessment.

[quote name='LukeJackson' timestamp='1350113162' post='1834632'] where is that? im heading to GAK today i'll see if they have one there, i've used ampeg before but the svt 3pro has more EQ options with the graphic EQ, either way i'll be using a sansamp BDDI through a 8X10 cab [/quote] GAK are ok..check what is in stock before you go with a phone call.. but this applies to any bass shopping trip, IMO...and not a dig at GAK, who I like.. Don't be confused that the Ampeg SVT3 has EQ options... it may not be a bad amp and it may suit you down to the ground, but the graphic is pretty useless. The mid bias switch does the work, IMO, but a range of tonal abilities is not what you buy Ampeg for tho...IMO

When someone else is paying for them. We get venues with a crew sometimes.... but if I use my gear, I generally have to move it to the stage. and the trade off is that I am travelling without lights and P.A type gear so it isn't that big a deal either way. The biggest hassle is load out through people who don't want to go home

Or you could say that bands that don't charge or can't charge aren't very good at drawing people ..as they would surely be charging if they could...so therefore people don't go to the pub/club/venue. Gigs are very very rarely free, IME... as there is always a cost somewhere, lie rent/rates/staff etc etc Wouldn't actually blame these bands for closing the place down, but maybe they aren't any good at getting to the whole point of the exercise..which is to entertain people. You have to say that any band that can't get a gig in a pub is not upto much, tbh ..and there are plenty around here that maybe shouldn't but they do get out there and there seems to be room for them. I tend to think some do the band nights more harm that good at times and people don't turn up on spec if the standard isn't consistant...but if the venue has a decent reputation for good bands then people might go there without knowing a thing about the bands appearing...if only to check in... Of course, the only way you can vet the rosta is to know the band or have seen them elsewhere...or taken a recommendation from someone you trust..These are the better payers and more desirable gigs. So, it really all depends where you set the bar..........

Jam nights are paid. The house band gets paid but it is true, it is a filler night both for the muso who runs it and the pub. Open mics are for bands and solos to get showcased at that venue... so has the loss-leader effect. But that is normally for bands that can't get a gig there in the first instance so they have to do the demo/showcase route. There is also the agent putting on open nights to 'get' acts for their rosta...but most likely, they have done a deal with the pub for organsing the night an the pub pays the 'agent' rather than the bands. It can be cannon fodder

When I hear the word 'free' in the context of a gig, I tend to think what is wrong with it/them..?? But, as I have said before in this thread, doesn't matter a jot what other people do with a gig and the way they approach it is down to them.

8 piece band..?? for £400 or less depending how they slice that cake...?? Listen to the links and then you'll decide.

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1350043685' post='1833900'] Get in! He really is awesome, but upsetting. [/quote] Definitely filed as WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIRRRDDDD

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1349991254' post='1833397'] Or have charts. It's pushing it a bit to ask someone to play a party for £50,but expecting 4 rehearsals too is taking the piss out of whoever deps. [/quote] yep... why would a dep need 4 rehearsals anyway.... I can only conclude the band needs it...?? They'll struggle big time to fill it with anyone any good. The most..IMO..that it has to offer, is networking.

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1349936873' post='1832351'] How do you find two 210 work? What's the total wattage with both cabs? [/quote] 700w between the pr and I run with a 550w amp. The sound is great..and as I said, is far better -for me- than the 2 Berg 112's I also use but the DB's relegate these to a B rig. Tight low B which fills the rooms but never boomy or bass heavy..it is just FULL. The cabs have nice highs and a mid presence..which I think is the DB cab bias, and I have no hankering for a 115 at all. The only cab I would think I would replace them with MIGHT be a Berg NV610 but that has no tweeter. In fact, I wouldn't get rid of the DB's..I would add the NV610 to my choice of rigs depending on the stage and gig, but that also depends on whether the Berg has the higher end that I think I'd want. But at £800 for a cab SH, which I would use, maybe 5-6 times a year at my current gig level..?? maybe GAS is ruling my head. If Aguilar did a DB610 with a horn I would probably be all over it.... more so that the Berg...but that is based on hearing Berg NEO 12's not the NV/HD version. I have my amp in for service so maybe I'll check with you later about meeting up to demo these configs if you still have them.. unless you have a decent room to run them in. Might need to get to Horsham soon-ish..

I just think you need a value for the service you provide and that value can be gauged by whoever is willing to pay it. It doesn't mean the band charging £300 in a pub is the best band musically, it means they have convinced the payer that it is worth it. Don't get me started on that one tho... If you want to make a competition out of it..and despite what people may want you to believe, it can be very competitive, you can say our gig that grossed X beats your Y..bla bla... but people who watch bands generally latch onto one thing and that makes all the difference to them as regards to whether or how much they like that band. There is no simple arbiter, so a general rule of thumb put about is that the better bands charge more money.. because they are deemed worth more money. If you don't charge for your services or see the need... ok..!! I am of the opnion that everyone should charge but realise that there are reasons why some don't. Our policy is that we don't do free gigs.

Not really..I'm saying bands don't charge because they don't/can't find a market. Personally, I'd also bet they aren't good enough either to get past that obstacle but that aside, I wouldn't be after their gig as it doesn't pay..and they aren't going to be/or get on our circuit if the don't get their market There are plenty of festivals round here that run as beer festivals primarily and if they don't have a band budget why would we even be talking... we want two different things.

If the guys can play then they are going to be able to take a whole load of bog standards and run with them..... and when they get hold of a track and go through the gears then you know you have a fun band and any gig has the potential to be excellent

For me it can be too much work for the money..Pubs are invaribly that.... so the gig needs to return. It is EITHER great fun or a good payer. If it is both then great, if it is neither, then that is a killer. If bands don't charge, then that is their problem/choice..maybe they can't, maybe they don't want to but I don't know many really good bands who don't value their services..well, any, actually, but I know a few bands who can't get money for love nor gigs . But then I also don't know any venue that cares about their rosta that does not pay. If a band does not charge a fee..who would want them..?? It smacks of the venue not valuing the service they are trying to make money off the top of. I am not talking about charity gigs and I understand bands may have to go in cheaper until they proove their worth... but pubs round here might have an audition night where the band plays for beers.... but who seriously falls for that one. I've done my time of no payers when I was a kid.... Other than that, I don't really care ... not likely to come across those units anyway.. they aren't going to be playing places I'd go to. and none of the free festivals... i,e on the back of some charity, have line ups that work out either 99% of the time, IME

A 210 and 115 was in my thinking but the DB115 is a BIG lump and it wouldn't fit into my car very easily at all... so I went for 2x210 which sound GREAT to me and I am very pleased I made this decision. I don't think I have lost anything at all by going this way... and altho I tried the 210 and 115 config with SWR (sold it due to the size of the 115) ..and it was a great rig, IMO, The DB cabs are better.

I think Wooten can do some very nice things but his career path is focused..for better or worse, on this double thumb thing and he has to make whole features and shows out of it. He can have a really nice feel to some stuff and a couple of bars of a fast double thumb thing would be great.. but we assume people pay to see more...and that is what you get,. Maybe it has made him quite a career, Personally, I think he is better than that as a player...but those $'s count. I can watch a few minutes of him but then most of his musicality goes..for me.. and I switch off. Guys like Caron, Wooten and Dickens now have careers on their style/technique..whereas someone MM backed and produced a whole range or artists before going down that route. Presumably it pays the mortgage..but yes, in short, can get too much. But, apply that to as many shredders and other musos as you like, as well.

which gets us into sealed cabs with a bass roll-off so you flood the stage less...?? which is a nice little slant on things. If it were me, turning up at the venue without knowing the stage-rig/monitor situation, then I'd look after my angle and have the bigger rig and also control it, ie turn down, if need be. If the same rig/engr travelled around with us and I had to move some of my own stuff, then maybe smaller. We are a loud band and despite 4 mon mixes and a monitor engr, I still sometimes get left to my own devices if time is running away..and that is where I need the minimum of 2x210's I am thinking I'd indulge myself in a DB750 and 610 of some sort... for handful of gigs per year.... but then I come to my senses, but it is still GAS Peacehaven is about 50 miles from me.... maybe we can hook up and try and the DB's amps and cabs ... I have 2 cab configs that I would I love to run a DB750 thru....???

Indeed Pete...my first proper session was such a roasting that I vowed that I would never get caught like that again, so it made me work very hard working on my stuff and the lessons pretty much define my thinking today all these years later. Imagine you are an inexperienced band and the likelyhood of everyone getting their parts decent..??? and you wonder why the demo was...er.... iffy..?? Now, same type of bands cut and paste everything and put that out as their demo.... and it may be good enough for a few dates, but it isn't going to impress anyone who knows a thing or two when/if they can't cut it live. One reason why we never put out studio tapes for getting gigs for example..and when Youtube is your friend..!!! Having said that..sessions are cheaper as you can get more down in a day and the the band gets paid and leaves..and the engr/producers fixes things quicker and more easily later.... At the end of the day... I don't mind technology so much in the studio as long as the guys can do it live... I take the point that there are some tricks that are shorcuts or time-savers but I draw the line on thngs that the band couldn't do without them... in a millions years.. Maybe I'm an old git..???

NV412 has to be closer to 1200w rated..???