JTUK

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1400066025' post='2450344'] So the actual sound and technical specs of a bass cab has no bearing on your purchase decision? That is your perogative. I myself don't base my purchase decisions merely on how something looks, though I realise this puts me in the minority. No real substance? My Barefaced cab seems to be quite substantial... I've been playing bass since 1974 and have owned and played through cabs made by most, if not all the major (and minor) manufacturers, and [i]in my opinion[/i] the cab I have now is the best I've ever used. Of course it may not be for everyone - that is why other brands are available, but it's [i]the best for my purposes[/i]. I'll say it again - Alex is having supply issues keeping up with demand for his product and his books are full of orders not just from the UK but from all over the world. How much time do you need and how much success do you need to see to realise this? [/quote] Never said sound wasn't a part of it...and I have covered the sound in my replies, and the sound applies as much as anything. If you knew anything about me at all... you'd surely know that. I'll not repeat it but the sound goal of that cab was totally wrong from my POV... but sound is subjective and there is no way that cab could have worked for me, others don't have the same concern. The fact that it looked like it did... with what I would call, shoddy finishing, sealed it. If they were to skimp there, where else might they skimp etc etc ... But hey, don't worry, these things happen, I can try a new one and see if anything has improved. I don't need to 'realise' anything..if a cab isn't good enough for me and my purposes by whatever criteria, I'll probably tell you.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1400064487' post='2450314'] What perpetuates these threads, and their (often negative) content, is comments like the above. Why do people have to either "cheeleaders" or "ante's" (sic) in your mind? Many of the people that you perceive to be cheeleaders are simply satisfied customers, who are just as discerning as you, but have come to different conclusions. I still fail to understand why you feel it to be your mission to constantly make negative comments in every thread that mentions Barefaced. Counter-opinions are valuable, but you are starting to sound like a stuck record! Edit - Discreet got in there first... [/quote] I agree, it is quite boring and a stuck record. The same as all the positive threads. Ok, we get it, you like the thing, but to post about the delivery date and the excitment and build up to it all... jeez..give me a break. And then along comes the next one and the next one... Like I said... I just post an opposite view. Some posters are happy enough that I and others have that...even though it is contrary to theirs. We can have that sensible conversation, and tbf, to Discreet, we have that. We don't agree and we go back and forth... But if you are asking me to be silent... because some people don't like to read my thoughts and experience on this subject, then I wont be doing that.

I use the word cheerleader or fan boi... it seems to fit with the general pushiness .. but I quite agree, people that don't rate them, as just as pushy the other way. One group to me is zealous and the other tends to be acidic... The home made theme is ok if you are charging home made prices, but as you say yourself, this is a commercial concern. Personally, I would not have that on any product I would be associated with. The answer to your other question is no. I consider the whole package in that opinion. That is why you get someone in who complements other strenghts and covers the weakness. There may be mitigation why that isn't practical, of course, but if you aren't ready to play with the big boys, then best keep quieter about it..?? No one in business will think , oh that is ok, he is only just starting, give him a break, when they are charging big boy prices and potentially after the sme business/market. To be blunt... it is not enough to seem to bamboozle your fan club, if the industry seems to not take any notice. You can't just set out a desired goal and expect to achieve it without any real substance... Time will tell if and where that may be.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400061968' post='2450272'] No, and I don't intend to as I pay others to do it! I don't think I know any musicians that I grew up with who have spent time building cabs. Guitarists are much easier to please I guess. [/quote] I built a cab as a kid.... it looked awful and ended up in the bin. But to a 'pro' cab maker... dimensions is the easy bit ( once that has been determined ) but I bet they wouldn't want to build it by hand for the money that you would want to pay.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1400026070' post='2450080'] You know I think this may actually be it... could it be that despite the vast amount of research, development and investment that Alex has put in to make his product the best it can be, and though his company is going from strength to strength, the fact that he started out as a one-man band in a garage means that fundamentally people still think of his cabs as 'home-made'?...................... ................. [/quote] They tend to comment on the home made aspect because, IMO, they look home-made... I've long thought they needed a proper cabinet maker ( Skilled, and they cost ) and not someone who thinks he can handle tools... Design is also down to how good the eye is in that regard... and you can't fake that... you either have it or you don't. Also, you can only read so much out of a book,... sooner or later talent needs to kick in. Otherwise, you are just another guy building a box..and the best thing about that box is the things that you don't make yourself and buy in. I would imagine it helps if you then want to be considered an authority etc etc .. Personally, I really don't care one way or another, but when you see some of the stuff on these pages, you might want to post a counter view if you have one. The reason that it seems to be a problem here is that the cheerleaders seem to react just as much as the ante's when someone diagrees. That perpetuates the same thing over and over.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1399964397' post='2449298'] Agreed. If you couldn't see the speakers through the grille, and there was no identifier on the cab itself; I wonder how many bass players could plug into an anonymous "black box" cabinet and be able to identify the size of the speaker(s) inside just from how the cab sounded? My guess is that it wouldn't be very many - especially if the speakers were decent quality. I think some of us are confusing cabinet quality with driver diameter. A crap 4x10 will never sound as good as a decent 2x12. That doesn't inherently make 12" speakers better! That said.... I like fifteens.... Five of my last six cabs have contained at least one fifteen inch speaker. [/quote] I'd feel confident I could tell..... if you lined them up and A/B'd between them...

I had a 75' Jazz and it was the worst bass of any supposed regard I've had... If you think the money is too steep... then you HAVE to play it ok...too late, oh well...hope it works out

I would call Celinders, AC's, Fodera, Sei high end. Metro's and American Deluxes getting there.... for example.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399845323' post='2448354'] Learning the material is obviously important, but the ability to play bass in time is often overlooked for some reason. Timing is the responsibility of all band members - but as you pointed out, if the bass (and/or drums) go tits-up, it can be train-smash time. [/quote] Yes... often surprised/bemused when a guy likes to go all over the place with his fills, and yet struggles to hold straight 8's . I find plectrum players can do that all day every day and sound great and right in the pocket, yet finger style players can really really struggle. It is odd but it happens a lot.. on Dakota..

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399836528' post='2448213'] [/size] It's not your posts I'm thinking about in particular. At least you have had experience of the product and didn't like it, that's fair enough. But there seems to be a feeling of resentment somehow that Alex is succeeding where perhaps others haven't? I really don't know - I'm guessing. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it! First world stuff, anyway. [/quote] Actually, I don't get that impression. I don't think they have any particular reason to hate the stuff... and I don't recall them using the word hate at all. They generally say, they have tried it, didn't rate it at all, and can't see what the hype on here is all about. They seemed to have time on the boxes as they were able to mention the models and the build quality and they thought the fan boi stuff was a tad off the scale. I just got the impression that they aren't that bothered..which may be why they don't post anymore, but thought the product pricey for what it is. Me, I have serious misgivings..if you forgive the word 'serious' about a cab, any cab, that is inherrently bassey, as that is the last thing most players need, IMO...but then I also doubt I have comparable tone goals to some either. And if a company was pushing that goal, I'd wonder about their design goals and real background in the business. I aslo wonder about the bass player as well... but less of that, For all the ante's..they are just as many cheerleaders and of course, that might clash once in a while. I don't think any one is wishing the company to fail... they just don't rate the product they have tried. But god forbid they post that...you only have to get some some of the sentiment here I do have the chance to try another...brought new a few months ago, afaik... I'll be back to start my own thread then

I would say if he hasn't got the requirement to get past his frustrations on gtr, bass will do the same to him when he can't play *insert fave rad bass player of the day*..so he has a choice, get really stuck in or give up. This is just natural selection. P.S it would be a decent life lesson, if you pushed him to get past this... IMO. Nothing is for free etc etc

Sure... but I said I posted more as a balance to countless threads ( namely NCD's etc etc and same are even on the same cabs at the same time ) on here and possibly to counter an impression that they were universally well regarded. I don't start the threads, I just post a counter opinion..but it seems some would rather I don't have one...or certainly dare not post one. I would suggest you would rather read mine, than many others

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399770361' post='2447542'] You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research. [/quote] Big BIG difference though. Fender are an iconic brand ..been going for years and sold zillions. To many they are an industry standard even though I agree most of the cheaper range aren't where you'd go..or I wouldn't. The other company has a few years existance with no real grounding and sells direct ..with the main protagomists being BC cheerleaders...?? Noone else knows they exist and the industry at retail level ignores them..either because to 'shop' them would make them too expensive with the shop mark-up or make the direct sell price too low to be worthwhile to the maker.. And that is before you consider whether the shops will take them. I know two pretty high level specialist shops that don't like them and neither do their customers.. All of this is just point scoring but the real point is that the product is hugely hyped here and my point was that the negative opinions also need to come across so as new people don't think the product is universally endorsed, because it certainly isn't. There are probably as many people on this site who don't have a good opinion of them as there are people who seem to push them as much as possible, but the ante's mostly tend not to post. The reason being because it all turns out like this...? I can certainly say my opinions are mild compared to some...and I know this becase they have told me it is just that every now again, I'll have an opnion and experience and post it. I am not much concerned about how popular that makes me here or not...you may have noticed For good or bad. I just tend to say what I think. It is all opinions at the end of the day and this site would be nothing, IMV, if we didn't have them or post them

Too much money full stop for that bass, IMO.

Can't believe a studio engr didn't think of the lead as the first thing to check.... with it being the least hassle and a 30 sec thing to do. I would be pretty peeved that 'his' equipment cost an hour of 'our' time

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1399732181' post='2447132'] ............. I`ve tried a TH500 and my impressions were "modern-sounding Ampeg", ...................... [/quote] Funnily enough all the guys round here who use Ampeg... SVT3 pro plus Ampeg410... love their sound but LOVE mine which is nice of them to say. If I know they will be at the gigs, I'll generally get the DB750 and DB212 out for them...but boy, have they got a shock when they hear a 210 on top as well. That rig has serious beans on toast and cut down trees, IMO. I've long thought Aguilar have well and truely stolen Ampegs clothes and are making serious inroads into the market. I just hope they keep everything made in the U.S... I liked the TH500 with a lively set of CN112's .... and I like the pedal ...but don't get to use it anymore. I tend not to like the OTB when I hear it... doesn't sound that 'authentic' Looks like a kettle on your cab..and sounds like one... joking..!! It isn't really an Orange IMO... they are big old valve amps to me, always will be and maybe that is my problem with it.. I can't get beyond that.

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1399738941' post='2447204'] I'm fortunate enough to have a 4x10 and a 1x15, both have high frequency horns. I rarely pair them up and the 4x10 is the cabinet I tend to use most of the time. To be honest, I've never really felt once the band is fully up to volume that I could really differentiate between the two cabs - any frequency range gets lost in the overall mix and [b]all I hear is whump[/b]. P [/quote] See, I'd hate this... if you mean the sound is kinda there but indistinct and I just don't get why it should be so. I wouldn't put up with it. I want to hear every little thing... and I tend to throw all sorts of things in so it needs to be heard from my POV.

Yes, odd thing, but nice player, tho' I liked the guy in the Horrors... he had a nice 'attitude' for a young kid.

Heavy strings are unplayable for me as you need strong hands or a heavy action, both of which aren't condusive but a decent neck with an adjustment should be able to cope. Old Fenders and Musicman's usually have very steady necks..whereas the thinner profile ones are more prone to movement. You should expect a neck tweak twice a year as you go through seasons...anything less is a nice bonus and testament of a decent neck...from a stability POV... it might have the profile of a bass ball batt tho'

What cabs..? as I don't think the entire solution/blame can be with one component ..

The ear irrigation is the final solution, IMO... but drops that soften it up are required for a few days prior or else the irragtion/water jet thing is banging too hard on the drum and that is just not advisable against a few days of drops to soften it all. You should avoid poking things in your ear ..like fingers, as all that does it compact it further. I find Otex is very good upto a point..and my last lot cleared up a persistant lasting bout of wax without having to go for irrigation. But yes, ear health gets more pertinent the older we get.. Upto a few years ago..and before my loud band started, I had never had my ears syringed. But wax isn't all bad.. we produce it for a reason.

All cool, no problem..

It wasn't mine...of course, but had a 15" which 'prooved' everything I dislike about them. Too much bass and no tone, I didn't like the build as the shelved port looks odd on the side. Panels too thin and not convincingly put together and lacking in attention to detail or finish. Having said that, not that impressed with the amp or bass either, but say no more about that. The guy liked it and thought it very light.... I didn't rate the sound of it in the room either and I can understand why people may have boom problems but then his sound objectives and mine would be wildly different. Did I really want to post the above ... ? no, not really.

What peaked my interest was trying out an HK Elements system and whilst it ultimately failed from our POV as it wasn't versatile enough for the gigs we do, it was interesting in that the subs were very easily to carry and the seperation was enough on small gigs. Larger, you have to double up on the subs and carry 4... and if you carried 4, size-wise, you might just as well carry 2 conentional ones. We quite fancy very pokey hi quality tops...like Martin f10, or Nexo PS10's and we then feel we could get away with 1 sub most of the time... maybe an LS500...and add the second for bigger gigs. The 2xPS10 plus LS500 would do a pub very well, I think. Anyway, with that thinking, I would be interested in passive subs with performance in a compact and light shell. By that I mean 60/70lbs max in weight....pref lighter. Basically that P.A needs to carried in a decent hatchback..

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399682448' post='2446741'] Maybe the people who really don't know why there is any fuss at all about them haven't tried them. Have [i]you [/i]tried a Barefaced cab? [/quote] You really don't want to know... I assure you.