noelk27

[quote name='bnt' post='291077' date='Sep 24 2008, 04:41 PM']For me it's a subset of Level 42: anything with heavy Slapping on it.[/quote] Which makes me think of RHCP - until they had their road to Damascus moment, struck by the revelation that you had to write a "song" and not just a "groove". Still, saying that, not entirely sure they’ve every quite grasped it.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='290813' date='Sep 24 2008, 12:13 PM']While people have been doing it for years, it was relatively rare up until the early 2000s when internet commerce really took off for musical instrument sales. Around 2004/2005, it became apparent that a few people were using it as a business model on ebay... Which is the source of the current oversupply.[/quote] Undoubtedly the advent of internet commerce has opened up the international aspect of the marketplace for resale and customer-used musical instruments to a larger population, and compounded an existing situation, but importation was a routine and common practice before the early 2000s. Between 1993 and 1999 I travelled extensively between the UK and US for business, and in that time, at the request of friends, colleagues, friends of friends, friends of colleagues, etc, I would say in conservative terms was involved in the importation of in excess of 300 instruments. The first time I imported a musical instrument was in 1986. And I know I wasn't alone in doing this, as it was suggested to me by the owner of a music store who indicated that he regularly went on buying trips to the US, Japan and Germany, specifically sourcing customer-used examples of those instruments for which list prices were kept inflated by the manufacturers/distributors. At that time - 1984 - he indicated to me that it was a common practice among independent music retailers - which I have no hesitation in doubting.

[quote name='OldGit' post='291016' date='Sep 24 2008, 03:47 PM']Glad to clear that up for you[/quote] Yeah, cheers - Danny and Guy, I seeing the difference now. But Carol and Guy, that one is causing me a few more problems.

[quote name='OldGit' post='291009' date='Sep 24 2008, 03:43 PM']You mean Danny?[/quote] Danny Kaye and Guy Pratt - yeah, I can see where the confusion comes from.

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='290932' date='Sep 24 2008, 02:31 PM']Looks like I was full-on, totally mis-informed! I could've sworn I read somewhere it was G.P.![/quote] Thought I'd read it was Carol Kaye.

I wish mine were a bass - and from a similar date, from the same manufacturer. Unfortunately it's of the 6-string guitar variety - a 1977 Aria Pro II PE series prototype, which was produced for exhibition purposes. It truly is a work of art, but I can't help but wish it were an SB series prototype.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='290735' date='Sep 24 2008, 10:59 AM']My point was simply that liking a song was not the same as valuing its effect on the masses.[/quote] The difference in agenda of the multi-instrumentalist who song writes and the virtuoso performer turned songwriter. The ambition of any songwriter has to be the creation of a homogeneous entity and not a collection of individualist parts. If a song is simply an exercise in musical theory or performance technique it’s not going to survive the objective qua subjective appreciation of the listening public. Had this argument with a producer once. A song has to be more than the sum of its parts. It has to evoke a reaction that is beyond the limitations of the key selected and the notes played - and the listening public quite simply doesn't care if a line has been played legato, ostinato or staccato for a particular section, or if a player is using double-stop slides or eighth-note triplets, hammer-ons or double-tapping, but about the overall impact of any song on them at an emotional level. In that respect, the balance of technical and emotional, I’m much more impressed by the performances of, say, Sting, than I am of, say, Mark King - although I’m sure that there are many contributors to this forum who would eagerly analyse these two musicians as bass players without considering the choices they make as songwriters.

[quote name='Doctor J' post='290722' date='Sep 24 2008, 10:48 AM']It's a global market now ... If you're selling a bass in Bolton you're competing with sellers in Boston these days ... I don't think it's a trend exclusive to EBMM, Warwicks, Fenders, G&L eetc are all cheaper to buy from abroad and the second hand market is reflecting that.[/quote] I’m not for one moment suggesting that this is a situation unique to EBMM, but their market model has proven particularly susceptible. EBMM took their eye off the development ball quite some time ago and have been walking a tightrope ever since, and are now paying the price for a legacy of over-production and under-investment. This is translating itself through their distribution and reseller networks to the marketplace, and subsequently to the customer-used marketplace. It's the combination of over-supply and an over-inflated EBMM set resale that has decimated the customer-used marketplace. This more so than the customer being in a position to import models to the UK, as this has been a common practice for many people for a considerable period of time. In fact, I'd suggest that cost of freight and taxes is proportionally higher today than it was in the early to mid 90s. The concept of the "limited edition" is not new - Fender kicked the ball off with the introduction of Duco Custom Colours, in 1957, and took it to new heights with the Mustang Competition colours and graphics, in 1967. But the EBMM market model of using purported "limited editions" to maintain an inflated resale has clearly proven itself to be unsustainable. Of course, other manufacturers have been similarly impacted, particularly those with diffusion lines, such as Fender and Warwick. Although, again, the caveat of vintage and true premium models, which need to be taken out of the equation, and this comment being taken in the context of apply to recent production. We live in interesting times - although I seem to recall that I've been through all of this before!

[quote name='dlloyd' post='290657' date='Sep 24 2008, 09:46 AM']It'll never happen. The split between MM and Leo Fender was not exactly pleasant and I don't think there's much point in waiting for Musicman to do anything that promotes Leo Fender's name.[/quote] Nicely done. You've highlighted the one sentence where my tongue was quite firmly wedged in my cheek. My point - it would be interesting to see how EBMM react to their introduction to free market economics post US sub-prime - and impending world economy melt down (hysterical over-emphasis in that last bit). Like so many corporate entities, will they whore themselves in their pursuit of the (not so) mighty US dollar - as they have done by applying the premium element to StingRay resale? It will be interesting to observe. Another "limited edition", please, EBMM.

There is little doubt that the StingRay is a classic CLF design, and that the models produced by Music Man, under the stewardship of Leo Fender, Forrest White and Tom Walker rightly deserve to command a premium in the vintage bass collectors’ market. I have no doubt that collectors and players looking for a piece of CLF heritage - and with 2009 being the Late Leo Fender's centenary - will continue to seek out the instruments produced by Music Man from the period between 1976 and 1982. It is the essential combination of tradition and innovation that made the StingRay a success when it was launched in the 70s. But can we truly say that this design, classic although it is, can assume the mantle of the iconic? Is the level of innovation truly on a parallel with that of the Precision bass or the Jazz bass? Let us remember that when it was unveiled to the world in 1951, the Precision bass was a radical concept, the likes of which had not been seen before. Or that the Jazz bass represented a quantum leap in both ergonomics and sonic possibilities when it was introduced in 1960. In its day, the StingRay was an important bass, and it offered a different sonic template from that of the Precision and the Jazz, but was it truly radically and deserving of the accolade iconic, or merely a re-interpretation of past success? For clarification, my comments are not intended to suggest that quality of the product manufactured by EBMM has fallen substantially, and particularly that the quality control of EBMM has dropped. I, put simply, from information which I have had the opportunity to review, hold the opinion that EBMM have attempted to maintain an artificially high list price for their product, and that such a practice is unsustainable long-term- a situation which has become acutely apparent to the marketplace at this time. There are always exceptions to any rule, and the fact that a certain limited edition is capable of holding its value is worth noting. But, again, I wonder if this is because EBMM departed from their standard and produced a model with design aspects that were present on the original CLF design - in this context I’m thinking of through-body stringing. The success of this one limited edition model, however, does not impact on my original comment, which was directed at the issue of purported limited editions, where the only differentiator is colour. Well, like many people, I say big whoop. Of course, with 2009 being the late Leo Fender's centenary, EBMM do have an opportunity to offer the market a true and honest limited edition, and reissue the classic StingRay as designed by CLF.

It's not such an odd phenomenon. Sure fashion and trends can play their parts. But I'm not so sure it's the Stingray going out of favour, but that there's simply an over-supply of this product on the market - and when there's an over-supply of any product, the marketplace makes a correction and price falls. For quite a few years now it's been more than apparent that the list price of the Stingray has been over-inflated, and the manufacturer has been too slow to bring new or updated product to the market. Historically it's happened to many companies who have taken their eye off development. Sure, I can already see the storm of infuriated replies, but tell me what's really changed about the Stingray in the last 25 years - 4 bolt to 6 bolt? Totally radical. HH? But isn't that just a Sabre, re-badged. HS? A slight variation on the same theme. Piezo bridge? Other manufacturers have been doing this since the early 90s. Even the must have modification of adding a carbon fibre neck only turns it into a Cutlass I (or if it's an HH a Cutlass II). And the sheer number of limited editions that have been appearing in recent years more than gives the game away - the game that Rover tried to play with its car models - a new "limited edition" every month or so. Sales staff: "you can only get this one in yellow", or "this one only comes in orange sparkle". Customer: "wow, and how does the colour of the finish improve the sound?" It's time for a marketplace reality check. I think the listing that has just appeared in the sales forum says it all, "yet another Stingray". Any buyer looking for a Stingray is in a powerful position, and can simply wait until exactly what they want comes along. You can't say that about a lot of other manufacturers - the ones who have a little bit more variety in their lines - whose products are standing up better price-wise in the current financial climate.

No comment about this specific listing, but I've listed items with a 99p start - including a 1980 G&L L1000, with a December manufacture date. Saved myself the expense of listing with reserves etc, in the full knowledge I could pull the listing if it didn't exceed my expectations.

[quote name='jonsmith' post='290352' date='Sep 23 2008, 08:28 PM']Well, maybe these don't count due to being more than simply a bass, but this pair cost rather a lot, especially the 4/12 string version on the right. I think the only bass mentioned in this thread that cost more was the Mark King bass. Not list price I know...[/quote] F$$k me! The 4/12's are the equivalent of rocking horse excrement. But you bring up an interesting point - the difference between intrinsic value and associational value. Surely when generally discussing instruments and values prototypes and artist-owned instruments should be excluding from the equation/question? Without the association, after all, the instrument in question is just another "X". Prototypes, however, do pose a slightly more difficult subject.

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='265582' date='Aug 19 2008, 02:24 PM']I'm just shipping mine off to a man in Essex who's promising to replace half of her in carbon graphite.[/quote] There's no chance she's a second-hand model - maybe once owned by a bloke from Liverpool? Nice chap - gave me the thumbs up one time - smiles a lot these days. [quote name='skywalker' post='290278' date='Sep 23 2008, 07:00 PM']Mrs Tinman has yet to find this thread.............[/quote] She'll be paddling about in the off-topic end, per usually. And as for mine, picked her up in Asia a few years back. Never been able to conclusively verify her vintage though. And like my Atlansia, she's a bit of an unusual design. 'Nuff said.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='290270' date='Sep 23 2008, 06:41 PM']I bought something even nicer with it.[/quote] Newcastle United season ticket?

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='289948' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:40 PM'] Mrs. WoT was horrified when I sold it...[/quote] I'm with Mrs WoT. On being horrified I mean!

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='261220' date='Aug 12 2008, 09:34 PM']I'm a bit worried she'll be the world's most prolific collector of purple basses by the time she's old enough to buy her own instruments. Oh Well. [/quote] Is this explained by her being conceived while you were listening to 60s rock behemoths or a 5-foot pixie from Minneapolis?

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='289816' date='Sep 23 2008, 10:56 AM']the singers job is to be in tune, or at the very least close to in tune which is getting more and more unlikely. and timing is getting worse. we've been doing this for 2 years now so it should be getting better not worse. he says he practices in the car as he does alot of driving so sings along to the CD's we have of all our songs ... also the bulk of the songs we do are ones that he has chosen or ones he feels he can sing, nothing gets through that he doesn't like. i dunno i like the guy but it is holding us back as alot of people who have come to see us won't come and see us again till we get this sorted (ie get a new singer)[/quote] First, I'll preface my comments by saying that every band I've worked in has been an autocracy, and when someone hasn't been working out I've sacked them. However, there are a number of themes coming through in what you say, and perhaps a few observations are worthwhile. Over time, as a band works together, there is a progression in either the individual members technical abilities or in their playing understanding of the other members. At its simplest, where you and the other members of the band are improving in either or both of these areas it might be that he has just stood still - but this is being perceived as his performance worsening. From what you say his practice is anything other than ideal - there’s simply no way that his body mechanics, a crucial element in his vocal performance, can be appropriately accommodated when practicing if he’s sitting in the driver’s seat of a car- so it is also possible that, developmentally, he’s regressing. As a singer it's important to be invested in the material you are performing. This can either be as the creator - which definitely assists with memory - or an interpreter. But, if your only connection with material is as the interpreter then the material you select has to be selected not because you enjoy it but because it suits your vocal abilities and style. Although the vocalist is involved in the selection of material, is this material being judged against the correct criteria? Does he, in collaboration with the other members of the band, posses the requisite skills to rewrite and rearrange to suit his abilities? God only knows I enjoy singing along with Freddie Mercury and Bon Scott/Brian Johnson in private, but would never consider singing Queen or AC/DC songs under any other circumstances. This is one of those situations where you need to be direct - which is certainly not the same as being harsh - and tackle this now. If it leads to the demise of the band then simply chalk it up to evolution - as it does sound as though there’s a ready-made three piece here.

Welcome ... You might want to reconsider using the name Avalanche, though. There are at least two signed bands - 80s/90s European outfit - and, currently, a US outfit who have toured with Lynyrd Skynyrd - using that name.

[quote name='lowdown' post='289278' date='Sep 22 2008, 03:32 PM']Knob anything that takes your fancy [if you are single][/quote] Not sure being single - technically or otherwise - has ever stopped a Stone from, err, knobbing.

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='288726' date='Sep 21 2008, 07:13 PM']I usually find myselt noodling thru a Bach piece in G, one of the preludes I think I like it cos it means I can use my low C legitimately [/quote] From the cello suites - probably the Prelude to No 1, which is in G Major - a well-known, and beautiful piece. You should also run your eye across the second Minuet to No 1 - wonderfully fluid, and not a chord to be found. There are also adaptations for double bass of the cello suites - so I wasn't being revolutionary when I challenged myself to adapt these for fretless!

Fretless, Bach's cello suite No 3 in C Major - I used to be a cellist - or The Police, Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic. Fretted, a mash-up of Queen, Another One Bites The Dust and Chic, Le Freak / Good Times.

Seemingly Adam Clayton likes them - but I don't know if that's any sort of recommendation.