bassjim

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1473184419' post='3127812'] Can you not go through the PA and just use your amp for monitoring? [/quote] we tend to use backline only. so my amp is my monitoring.just keys and vox in the pa. 8/10 gigs we are all good. we are not exactly a loud band. the norm is complements on quality of sound if anything. its just after a run of gigs where in each case the room is from bad to worse due to hard surfaces ect it gets me hopeful there could be a way round it. these rooms wont go away. they will come up time and time again so it would be great if anyone did in fact know what to do that would mean you can still get the clarity and fullness in your sound without compromise. but.......i think i already know its a unicorn solution

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1473178541' post='3127717'] I think we sometimes maybe play too loud, causing problems for ourselves. We also sometimes mess about with the tone controls on our amps too much. [/quote]yes and no to the volume. there is a limit to how low you can go before you have nothing as the drummer can only go so low even with hot rods. messing with the eq becomes a beacon of hope so theres that "maybe if i just try....it worked before in that place...."

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1473187956' post='3127864'] Most of the places we play were not designed for live music...just have to do what you can and get on with it ! [/quote] this is probably it. i know and have always known it but just had a hope somewhere someone had a solution to this soul crushing experience.

Following on from last weeks diva episode I though Id share what was another dissappointing gig. Not financially but from a musical enjoyment point of view. This weekend just gone had one gig for a birthday party in a posh golf club. Concrete floor surrounded by tall glass windows plus a conservatory to one side of the room with nice big glass sliding doors. No air con, broken fan and the temperature was insanely high due to all the glass keeping the heat of 100 or so guests in. Once again terrible bass sound but just about doable. Top dollar this one so no diva fit allowed just sweat pouring down my face into my eyes creating a woeful look of bassplayer having some kind of fit. Think Stevie Wonder waving his head side to side as he does, in an effort to get the sweat to bypass my by now stinging eyes whilst trying to find the best place to stand so I can hear myself. ...End tune 2 of set. wipe down face. stare angrily at amp and cabs. turn back to audience,fake smile and repeat. Could not wait for that gig to end. I have a mat thing I can put under the cabs (cant remember what its called) thats of no use. Cab repositioning, tilting = no use. Equing = no use. hate it when we get these gigs and you are totally screwed before you even play a note. Maybe the gods will give me a break this weekend coming up. Another venue I have never been in before. Its a wedding so I already am dreading a placial high ceiling concrete box. Any known for a fact suggestions that you know for a fact work beyond the usual " you have to turn it down". I and the band already know these obvious compromises. Probably not but maybe ....just maybe......

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473169355' post='3127613'] I'd class myself as very much an outsider compared to that sort of experience so I may be talking tosh, but I've always thought that 'making it' in the music business is more about luck than talent, which makes it the tough nut to crack that it clearly is. The old thing about "it's not what you know, it's who you know" and variations on that theme. [/quote] when we got signed it felt like we just got off the top rung of one big ladder and were now staring up from the bottom rung of the next even bigger ladder whilst someone was randomly dropping hammers down from the top of it

So easy to suggest the "get rid" but harder to put in place. Band relationships can sometimes feel like being in an abusive and or disfunctional relationship. Its like binning a girlfriend/boyfriend/partner you dont want to have sex with anymore cause you just dont fancy them any longer. Doesnt mean you want them dead you just want them out of your life. Its not the sacking of a band member that worries any one its the fall out after.....will they turn up and make trouble? If the guy is cool then you can and should tell him honestly. : sorry man but you don't have what we as a band need and this guy over here does. The hard truth is either we all suffer for your benefit or you suffer for ours. We decided to take a punt on this new guy going forward and feel really bad about it but that's just how it has to be. If the guy is a bit of a psychopath then its very awkward. Personally though if this is the case and it were me I would leave the band, lie low with the new guy and wait for the others to follow. Give it a few months and start up a new.

wouldn't have a problem with it. Ive used rooms where you put the money and the keys in a postbox on the way out. In both cases band and owner on good friendly terms. As in " trust each other" Sure they knew we always went a bit over the agreed end time but like wise accepted this would probably happen. If however we took the piss and we had stayed for several hours over making a nusiance they probably would have found out and thats the end of a special arrangement. Nothing ever went missing or got damaged because we were never that sort of band and they were never that sort of character.

my 2pence worth............. back then............i was signed to acid jazz records. we were told where to play by them. they set up the gigs and did the promo. we were part of a scene. if we played at the blue note club or the cafe d paris in london, supporting an act or headlining, it was organised by people that did it for a living. we didnt get involved in this side of it. allways packed with punters that liked the sort of music we played and even if they never heard of us before or ever again liked what we did. they knew prior to arrival that we must be worth a listen because 1. its an acid jazz/ funk jazz/ jazz funk / funky soul ect club / club night and they like all of that. 2. band will be of the same style. 3 . when band/s not playing music will be to their liking. they sold tickets and took the lions share and we got very little if anything, but did some very good really enjoyable gigs with spinal tap back stage delights. the venue the OP describes doesnt sound like its offering anything other than a place to check out a band playing their own stuff. If this is the case (apologies if I'm wrong about this venue) then i think there is no point playing at this particular venue. If its made into an evening featuring a style of music with no more than 2 very good bands from the same style of music,doing maybe just 40 mins of their best stuff each with some sort of promo drink going on, free entry ect then i think there is a lot of point to doing it. we dont have record deals any more like we used to so the goal posts have moved. i dont know what the answer is because i play at weekends in a cover band, g these days get paid and love it. But then I am past it in terms of pursuing a "pop star" type career and the best dream is to get a side man job with an established artist. So i would be honest with myself and ask if I think I have a shot at getting anywhere with original material. Am i still young and sexy? Do my peers think so? Am I relevant to my peers? Is my music standing heads and shoulders above the rest? Could I get together with like minded individuals and turn this venue around with a special night dedicated to what I belive in musically? If you think yes then go for it because sadly the folks that used to do it so well aint there no more. I'm talking about the small lables that got you off to a good start.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1473155076' post='3127377'] When I have new material to learn "lack of patience" is not even an option". Whether or not I like the material is not a part of the picture either. I'm being paid to do something, end of story. I commit and learn the material. Blue [/quote] yep....if i dont want to do it i know where the door is. No one is forcing you so if you say yes then you owe it to the band and audience to have your sh*t together. If i get a dep turn up (and have recently) that comes across has half cocked I'm not impressed. What ever is going on in their personal life is not my concern. I know that all sounds very harsh but you have to consider what opinion the band you are playing for will form of you. People talk. Rumours can fly. "nah dont bother asking him...he did a gig with us and was all over the shop..." If you have a good rep as a good player and all round nice bloke then keep it intact. If you are not into it its ok but the band might be very into it so I would have to decide if its better to just let them down gently in the long run. If they are very lame as a band and wouldn't know the difference, cant play the stuff very well and its likley to be a one off playing to the bar staff,resident drunk and a dog then how much do you need this cash? You might be doing them a favour but if its not really doing anything for you and you are knackerd from work/other pursuits/life grief in general maybe pass on this one........ or pull your self together man and get on with it!!!!!

Yes.......snickers....oranges...jazz fags.....these are all solutions to before and during but has any one actually had a melt due to bad acoustics and if so how did it go/turn out in the end. More spinal tap the better but sensible solutions and outcomes equally welcome

Hi Freddie I play the same sort of thing as you do most weeks all year round and have done for the past 15 years or so. Once I had an Ashdown ABM with a Hartke 4 x 10 cab and I thought that was great. Then I had a Markbass SA450 with the Hartke 4 X 10 and thought that was even better. Then I got a couple of Markbass cabs and was really happy. Then I discovered EBS and am really really happy (most of the time... room dependant). I tried the TC stuff out but didn't find it as good as the EBS stuff and although this will upset a lot of folks I thought the Barefaced stuff wasn't all that at all. (sorry, really sorry, but that's how it was for me). I wouldn't say the TC stuff was in any way rubbish but I do think there was a flavour of the month thing about it when it came out and I was very tempted. IMO The 3-500 watt amp D class or solid state with a pair of 112 cabs is a winning combination playing this type of music. Question is ; Which brand is it that floats your boat? There is only one way to find out.......

EBSHD350 into EBS neo 2 x10 plus or EBS neo 112

i'll take a bag of oranges around with me in future

This weekend just gone I had three gigs back to back. Gig 1 = shitish room. bass sound doable but not great. Couldnt get my mojo going but rose above it and stayed profesh. Gig 2 = Excellent room. Great bass sound. Great band sound. Great levels. Great playing all round but private party so typically wasted on most of the people there but still left gig in high spirits. Gig 3= probably worst sound ever due to the corner of the room creating a wierd bass trap. In fact so bad that I actually could not distinguish an G from an A ect. I could have twangy like a guitar or mushy bass or turn it off. Third of the first set in I just had enough. Twiddling like mad using every trick I could think of. Yes it was ok out front but it was so bad that I had a full on diva fit and stopped the gig. Rearranged the back line. Swapped places with the guitarist and half an hour later carried on where we left off. Although still not the greatest sound but at least doable. Ended up enjoying what started out to be a miserable experience. The guy that runs the bar told me afterwards that he was glad I did what I did because it made it sound so much better overall and his punters are all asking for us back. He had seen us before so at least he knew what we were capable of so probably made him more understandable. Any one else lost the will to live in these circumstances and thrown professional attitude out the window and had a full on bitch fit out of sheer frustration when playing in a room that makes you all sound like some 16 year old amature band on their first outing? I appoligised to all band members during impromtu break by the way and resetup telling them I couldn't carry on but they were ok with it. They could tell by my face and shrugs I was reaching a breaking point. Guitarist went in the sh*tty corner as he thought I was over reacting and although he too sounded ok where I was now standing had a bad experience. But all the same ...Diva fit eh?....never done that before

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1472208894' post='3119437'] [/quote] am so using this. its going on everyones setlists this weekend brilliant! [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]The [/size][/font][/color][b]Dunning–Kruger effect[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3] is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of those of low ability to recognize their ineptitude and evaluate their ability accurately. Their research also suggests corollaries: high-ability individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.[1][/size][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Dunning and Kruger have postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in those of low ability, and external misperception in those of high ability: "The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1][/size][/font][/color]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472141594' post='3118852'] Imagine if he started a thread on Drum Chat "bass player is too loud, what size amp should he use?", I imagine the answer would be "one with a volume knob", with acoustic instruments the player is the volume knob. [/quote] Best answer so far.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1472137457' post='3118821'] So, what's the beef..? He's good with rods (that's a Good Thing...),and wants to use sticks, but with better technique concerning dynamics..? Isn't that just what most of the posts above are suggesting that he do..? I'd have thought that that's a Good Thing, too. Another solution is to muffle the drums (I've used elasticated flannel pillow cases, for instance...), but cymbals are more delicate, as the thinner, less 'noisy' ones will break anyway if they're beaten too hard. No, the real answer, whatever the kit, is stick control. If he's already a good drummer, it won't be hard to adopt another approach, and it's very interesting to get into, but it does take Work (Ok, a four-letter word for some...). That's not insulting the bloke; quite the opposite. If he's worth it, he'll take on board any of these (suitably worded...) suggestions, I'd have thought. No need to bash the fellow, just a reasonable amount of human diplomacy. Maybe this is the wrong forum for that, though..? [/quote]Defo not bashing him...that was just in jest !!!! He's more of a find a solution and go with that than sulk about it. I just didnt want to do the old "what I think you need to do is...or what other people do is." without any research. I think he already has a good idea its all about technique and every ones comments here reinforce that. He can do a gig on hot rods so we have a working model there, but if there are any other ways round it someone would have said so. It just means I can say "lets try a batch of tunes we play all the time over the next run of gigs with the sticks and get practicing this technique as much as we can going forward. Id rather have him getting better and better than holding him back with the hotrods. We can use the hotrods as a safe area so to speak.

so................ its all his own fault and he has no one to blame but himself ! I'll tell him. He is the kind of guy to go "ok. will work on that"

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1472122791' post='3118670'] In honesty, I traded a P-bass for the SR because I was finding that some of the songs that my pub covers band play ('Tears of a Clown' - The Beat and 'Stuck in the Middle' - Stealers Wheel) were a bit of a stretch, playing them down around the second to fifth fret. On a five string, they're a lot easier to play higher up the fretboard. More recently, my rock covers band has decided to play half the set in concert pitch and the other half, mainly Lizzy and DC, half a step down. This means either tuning up/down between numbers or taking two basses. Using a five would mean that I could do all the songs on the one bass. I would like to try a bass with a wider spacing at the bridge, see if that helps [/quote] Yes see your logic. Nothing wrong with that at all. Well there's one way to find out.....

Thanks for replies so far. I intend to pass on any constructive tips that may help him out. If its down to learning how to play quietly with sticks he will take it on board. Id rather it came from a source of fact rather than any guessing

Took me about a year to really get on with a 5 string.The string spacing hadn't even occurred to me, I just thought it was the change from 4 -5. Once the initial change had sunk in, I played only 5 strings for about 15 years or so. Even went at one point to a 36" scale. I realised for the sake of just a few extra notes I was actually making life harder and taking the fun out of it. Every time I picked up a 4 it just seemed so effortless by comparison. I bit the bullet and went back to a 4 and stayed there ever since. I almost had to retrain my self to play a 4! These days I de-tune to D and Eb on the E string when I need it. Yes 5s are great and lots of fantastic players use them well with no problems, and I will use one when I actually really do need those notes like a C and Db, that pattern, that key change ect but I guess they are not a main go to string configuration for me. I think you have to persevere with it till you get used to it but keep the 4 close by and see if the novelty wears off or if it leads to something good.

So.....very cool guy on drums in my regular band....... In the interest of keeping the overall band volume sensible, especially in small pubs, he uses hot rods. It keeps the kit noise down= keeps the band volume good= can hear vocals really well= good balance= constant good feedback from punters and venue/pub owners= busy pub= call back. In the situations when it needs more welly he uses normal sticks and if its a bigun' its miked up. The majority of venues dont want this wall of sound thing and the smaller places are really happy with what we do. But........its not great for our poor drummer. He's now probably one of the best hot rod players around but I know it gets to him. I'm wondering if a smaller kit is the answer but not being a drummer have no idea. Iv'e plenty of experience in the past playing with a loud bastard and if its not rock type stuff it kills the gig cause it forces every ones volume up to the point its all a mess. So in essence, all you weekend warriors that like me are out doing the cover band thing, does your drummer "get it" and has a good solution in place or is my drummer just a one of a kind shinning star?

yeah I'll take em. They can go with the "played by Clapton at such and such venue just post heroin addiction period" guitars and the Ginger Baker drum kit in the "Cream" room at my vast hill top mansion in LA......not!

I agree with Discreet . always a problem with bloody immature guitarists. Its something you wont win so get the ear plugs sorted first. They aint gonna change and if you have that many punters that make enough noise before you even start thinking about playing you probably have a good gig. Dont throw it away just because of a knob or two. Personally I've been here where the whole bands mentality is turn it up as loud as possible. A lot of punters enjoy this stupid volume so just get the plugs, and keep taking the money. You cant get a great bass tone against this sort of racket and its depressing. Unless you can jump ship or start a new band that can be up and gigging asap, its lose out or put up with it. Feel your pain... Its when you turn up and the gitard and drummer are busy shoving various protectors in their ears prior to turning the amps on that I find funny...just turn the f*** down!!!!! So glad I don't have these problems with my current regular band. I do have a list of problems that irritate me with current band mates but at least its not this playing at stupid volume. Our gitard does try to whack it up but I've house trained the rest of the band now. He gets told pretty quick to keep it in check by every one and I dont even have to be the hitler any more about it.