risingson

[quote name='Doddy' post='1105567' date='Jan 27 2011, 08:56 PM']I'm not sure about the gospel guys making the best session players for the reasons you mention. From reading interviews with a lot of the more prominent drummers and bass players there are very few who do read-it's all a 'feel' thing. I think the best guys are the ones who are working every night with different people. We all know that I'm a fan of chops,but there is just something about these guys that doesn't do it for me at all. I read an interview with one guy in Modern Drummer and he said that they have to show off their chops or else they would lose the gigs.I think that must be why I think the a lot of the modern gospel players seem like they want to blow all the time-often inappropriately. It's rare to hear them(especially drummers) just lay it down without flash.[/quote] Prominent examples of players that are nothing short of blinding readers are Stanley Randolph (Stevie Wonder's new drummer, check him out here [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AobHkyIAOY)"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AobHkyIAOY)[/url], Aaron Spears (Usher's drummer), Adam Blackstone (Jill Scott's bass player), Braylon Lacy (Erykah Badu's old bass player), countless others as well off the top of my head. It's a feel thing as well of course, you don't get on dates like that unless you're something special. The point with these players is that the good ones are the ones with the technique that don't feel compelled to overload their shows with it, I know of a lot of great players that have come from gospel backgrounds that are more than capable of doing this. Usually though, the gigs they get from being the type of players they are often allow them to overplay a bit... it goes with the territory. I'd be interested to see the interview you mention, as I'd be surprised that an attitude to the one you described this guy having would lead him to get any major work?

The gospel players from the U.S make for the best session musicians because they spend all day and every day just playing and reading in church. Some of the drummers and bass players I've seen kill me, their technique is nothing less than astonishing. It's a totally different thing in the U.S and a massive phenomenon. [quote name='silddx' post='1105252' date='Jan 27 2011, 04:57 PM']Interesting you say that because he often phases across the bar line, particularly the long fill you like so much.[/quote] Anthony Jackson is the king of doing this, worth checking our the end of 'Heed The Warning' by Chaka Khan for probably the most ridiculous fill I've ever heard on record!

Steve Jordan, ?uestlove, Jeff Porcaro, Rick Marotta, Bernard Purdie (ridiculous he hasn't been mentioned yet!!), Steve Ferrone, Steve Gadd, Vinnie C, Abe Laboriel Jr., Omar Hakim, the list really is endless. I'd like to play with Manu Katche too but he's meant to be very difficult to get on with on a professional level according to Abe Laboriel Jr.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1103677' date='Jan 26 2011, 02:08 PM']I'm not sure about that, the two big designs, the Streamer and the Thumb, were both conceived in the 80's! In fact, the Streamer really goes further back than that because it's a Ned Steinberger design! Some of the newer models like the Vampyre and the Star bass are hideous, but the real Warwick classics still look good. The thing is, they've always been niche instruments, played by bassists who like to step away from the traditional Fender or Fender inspired designs. This market of players will always exist, but Warwick do go through phases of being "in" and at the moment they definitely seem to be out! Around 2000/2001, it seemed like everyone wanted a Warwick and they were very popular but they've went into decline since then. I'm not sure if they'll ever see popularity like that again but they do make some good basses![/quote] Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course, but to be honest the Warwick boom in this country seemed to tie in with Jamiroquai's popularity in the 90's, so the design doesn't really constitute much of an 80's aesthetic to my eyes as much as a bright pink Yamaha or Jackson does. I do think the design of Warwick's flagship stuff is dated, but this is only in relation to what I see being played right now, and there's nothing to say that this trend won't buck anytime soon. I like Warwicks, I always have, but I think they've played into the hands of a certain market that has now alienated some potential customers that believe that their application as instruments is limited to metal etc. They need a bit of an overhaul image wise, maybe start looking to endorse a wider range of artists that pull a newer crowd of players.

Warwicks just aren't flavour of the month at the moment. I think the thing about them destroying their reputation with introducing a confusing range of gear isn't necessarily what's putting people off (car companies like Porsche have been doing a similar thing with their 911's for years and it hasn't stopped them selling mass quantities of them). They've (IMO) not dated very well, and whilst I happen to think that some Warwick basses are marvelous instruments I don't think their looks will stand the test of time. That's also probably contributed to the depreciation.

I'll start: James Jamerson Pino Palladino Braylon Lacy George Porter Jr. Freddie Washington Your turn

Unfortunately (and this is going to sound harsh, but it is true), not as many people care about your carefully sculpted bass sound as you'd like to think, and depending on what the venue is like and how many people are in the room, it's not going to be replicated properly anyway. Unless you are carting your own sound tech round everywhere you go, or you are very successful and can afford to have your every need catered for in a live situation, then I think you might have to reassess the way you approach sound men. Most often they are very helpful people who are keen to get your monitoring needs and the front of house sound sorted as quickly as they are meant to, they aren't there to work on your bass sound for 40-50 minutes and then move on to the rest of your band, unless they are getting paid a small fortune to do so. [quote name='TimR' post='1102112' date='Jan 25 2011, 01:48 PM']Essentially that was the problem in a nutshell. The amp is part of your effect. It actually looks like you have no option other than DI the amp. The problem is how do you convey this to the sound man.[/quote] +1 billion

[quote name='dood' post='1099636' date='Jan 23 2011, 02:01 PM']You're most certainly welcome to your own opinion - It'd be a boring world if we all liked the same thing! Your post did make me chuckle though.[/quote] He's wrong anyway, they are cracking basses! One of my old tutors at Uni had a very similar 5 string Tobias similar to the one in your picture on the right, I could never play it though because it was a lefty... it was originally given to Paul McCartney as a gift but he ended up with it.

[quote name='ahpook' post='1100087' date='Jan 23 2011, 08:44 PM'] kevin shields[/quote] Great choice!

[quote name='ahpook' post='1100336' date='Jan 24 2011, 12:46 AM']plus the one. it's odd...with the number of threads about 'guitarists who solo over everything, don't learn songs, etc, etc, etc, i wonder where they all are...i've never met one. is it something particular to 'rock' bands ?[/quote] Likewise? Maybe I've just got lucky, I've never had to deal with a guitarist with a big ego, to me I'd prefer them to be a sh*te guitar player with a good attitude than an excellent player with a terrible attitude.

[quote name='Jam' post='1100146' date='Jan 23 2011, 09:25 PM']Pretty sure all guitarists are like this...[/quote] Not the good ones. In response to your post Gust0o, I don't know what your guitarist is like as a person or how long you've known him etc. but if there is one thing I have learnt during the time I've been playing it's that 1.) everyone in the band has to be in the same tuning, 2.) gear doesn't control your sound, you control your sound using gear and 3.) if you're not working with each other in a band, then you're effectively working against each other. If your guitarist doesn't get any of that then it might be worth considering either getting rid of him, or leaving to find a better group of musicians. I wouldn't be happy putting up with such a lack of professionalism, I'd end up wanting to chew my hands off in frustration.

[quote name='TheGreek' post='1099724' date='Jan 23 2011, 03:20 PM']Do you know I nearly started believing some of what was being said here then I went to the "Funk and Groove" thread - seems like somebody needs to tell all of these guys to "KISS"... Marcus..Stanley..Victor..Les Claypool...Mick Karn..TK Stevens..are you listening?? KISS, in my mind, will lead to nothing but mediocrity and bass being nothing more than a backing instrument.. God bless those who break the rules!!![/quote] 'Mediocrity' is a word so often used in place of 'preference'.

The Meters - Cissy Strut Aaron Neville - Hercules The Fatback Band - (Are You Ready) Do the Bus Stop Rufus - Once You Get Started Herbie Hancock - Just Around the Corner Herbie Hancock - Hang Up Your Hangups The Gap Band - Shake Cymande - Brothers On the Slide Chic - Everybody Dance Sister Sledge - Thinking of You Narada Michael Walden - I Should Have Loved Ya Chaka Khan - What Cha Gonna Do For Me Michael Jackson - Get On the Floor Slave - Just A Touch of Love Patrice Rushen - Forget Me Nots Ohio Players - Who'd She Coo? The J.B's - Superbad The Bar Keys - To Hot to Stop To name a few.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1099438' date='Jan 23 2011, 11:10 AM']I think this whole "no bass" idea is just a bit of a fad. Started out with the white stripes, then went onto the gossip (who also started the "let's buy this person's records because they're fat and ugly and therefore we can pretend that we're not just shallow and obsessed with looks" trend followed on swiftly by Susan Boyle) and now paul simon. Unfortunately 95% of music listeners wouldn't be able to hear the bass anyway on account of playing music through their tinny little laptop speakers or "skullcandy" earbuds...[/quote] With the greatest respect I don't think Paul Simon has been paying the smallest amount of attention to what The Gossip or The White Stripes have been doing, what with being one of the most prolific writers of the past 40 years or so. He really doesn't have to adhere to trends and such.

He's obviously just choosing to take a different direction with his music, I've got to say though some of the best bass ever gone down on a record was Bakithi Kumalo's stuff on Graceland.

Agreed with Musky, I find Reverb Nation to be a bit of a pain and it doesn't integrate as well with a band's Facebook page as well as BandPage, it's slow and annoying. EDIT check out our BandPage Facebook here if you want an example [url="http://www.facebook.com/54321.mu?v=app_178091127385&ref=ts"]http://www.facebook.com/54321.mu?v=app_178...7385&ref=ts[/url] and click on the Bandpage tab.

Hiram Bullock or Paul Jackson Jr. EDIT John Mayer is up there too.

[quote name='TheGreek' post='1097806' date='Jan 21 2011, 05:07 PM']to play devils advocate... Aren't some songs memorable because of the basslines?? - Think "Money", "The Chain", "Taxman", "Down in the Tubestation" - in each of these the song is driven by the bassline - would the songs have benefitted by a less complex bassline? - would they have been more/as memorable? Most bass players accept that it's as much about what you don't play as what you do - unfortunately most guitarists aren't of the same mind. By KISS, bassists just leave more space which Guitarists will inevitably think is theirs to fill - "I'll just "chuck in another solo" - when we listen to Motown/Atlantic/Stax, etc the attraction (for me anyway) is the basslines and the horns - NOT the guitars and keyboards. I have no problem with much of what has been said and agree with quite a lot of it, however how many times have you allowed "cracking" basslines (which you've spent hours refining) be overwhelmed by the guitar parts? Sometimes the song has to give for the benefit of the groove/ bassline. IMO Basslines are as important (possibly more so today in the era of D& as the chord progressions - so shouldn't just be treated as part of the backing track for guitarists.. I'm sure there are many who won't agree with this but I'm equally sure that there are a large number who are of a similar school of thought..[/quote] I don't know what sort of guitarists you've worked with in the past, but the eternal struggle between guitar and bass shouldn't be something that happens and if and when it does, then it's proof of terrible musicianship on either party's behalf. There's no room for ego in a band. A guitarist overplaying is as bad as a bass player overplaying, and whilst the roles of either instrument are very different, the principle of being understanding towards the rest of your band members should remain the same. There is no magic formula that bass players must adhere to when they play. No one should tell you to play down or play up, it's a decision you have to consciously take, and it's the point where a 'bassist' becomes a 'musician'. [quote]IMO Basslines are as important (possibly more so today in the era of D& as the chord progressions[/quote] Bass lines underpin chord progressions, they are synonymous with each other. Whilst it might not be common practice to hammer a chord out on bass, you still have the ability to use the notes that a guitarist has just used in a chord. It's why the notes you choose to play are so important. If I'm playing with my band in the key of C major and hit the maj3rd on my low E instead of the root note, I would completely change the colour of the chord. A bass line is an extremely powerful thing.

I knew Simon though posting at his website he set up for Stuart Zender. The bassment a great resource for bass players! Got a message through today to say his SZ forum is back up and running today as well [url="http://www.stuartzender.co.uk/forum/"]http://www.stuartzender.co.uk/forum/[/url]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1097504' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:46 PM']He's a good player and he certainly found his niche in the music world,but there are better players.[/quote] Flea would be the first person to agree with you on this. He's always struck me as very aware of himself as a musician, not cocky at all and very quick to note that he is simply a small fish in a big pond (I hate that analogy but hey). And young players are very quick to label someone the 'best', it's the competitive nature of being a teenager. It's the age old argument though; I'm not concerned about the sum of an individual musician's skills if they have the ability as group to create brilliant music. I don't listen to music an the premise of a song having a really great bass guitar part, or if I do it's incredibly rare... I'm more interested in the sum of the parts.

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='1097124' date='Jan 21 2011, 09:19 AM']"Keep it simple" If you're hearing this a lot, it's probably right.[/quote] +1. The best bass players in this world are revered for being able to assess what's right for the song. If this means playing 1/4 notes on the root of the chord, then so be it. If it means having something that moves a bit more, then that's fine too. It is seemingly the easiest thing as a bass player to do, yet probably the hardest thing to actually understand, and I continue to see loads of players that don't quite get this concept.

[quote name='endorka' post='1097224' date='Jan 21 2011, 10:53 AM']I don't understand the criticism of Flea either, I think he is a fantastic musician.[/quote] Flea brought bass playing to the forefront of a band like no one else ever has (apart from maybe Paul McCartney purely by default). That made him very popular with younger players keen on replicating his technique, aesthetic and sound, and it spawned a generation of new bass players (I include myself in that). Unfortunately, some people feel compelled to go out their way to disprove him as a musician; something which usually reflects their lack of ability to digest other kind of music that doesn't fit their idea of what constitutes good musicianship. It's something that's always baffled me, but I now understand that some people need to quantify other musician's abilities in order for them to assess whether they're worth listening to or not, which is completely ridiculous!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1097015' date='Jan 21 2011, 12:10 AM']I agree and it's a shame that you get the flea fanboi crap if you like the chilis or play a stingray as the rest of the band aren't bad either! The only thing is I think soul to squeeze is the best song they have ever done and shows how good flea can be at bass playing in a conventional way. Could you put a you tube link for it I'm only on my iPod? Great song.[/quote] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE[/url] I love Soul to Squeeze too, it's another superb song

I listened to a lot of music as I grew up. I remember when I first took up bass I was told to listen to The Red Hot Chili Peppers because they had a great bass player. So when I finally did get round to listening to them I got completely hooked. It wasn't just the bass playing, but a lot of the way Hillel Slovak and later John Frusciante voiced themselves on guitar, as well as Anthony Keidis's lyrics which at times could be incredibly poignant, even if his vocal ability did at times lack somewhat... in fact over time the bass playing became inconsequential in comparison to their ability to write brilliant music. To me, they remain one of the most important bands to emerge from the past 30 years. I remember buying 'Blood Sugar Sex Magik', and I would still describe it as a musical turning point in my life. As time went on though, I stopped listening to them as much as I once did, and other music began to edge them out of my walkman, a lot of jazz, rock, R&B and Motown, as my taste 'matured' for lack of a better term. Whilst I still loved Flea's playing, I was keener to explore other bass players that had a more 'conventional' approach to bass playing. So tonight, I found myself sitting and listening to Under the Bridge. I think every band has a song that defines them. I would argue that the Rolling Stones's 'Gimme Shelter' epitomes their excellence in one song, conversely I could probably say that 'Day In the Life' sums up nicely John Lennon and Paul McCartney's ability to write some of the most timeless music and lyrics ever heard. For me the song that best summarises what the Chili Peppers did was Under the Bridge. It remains a nostalgic and important song to me still, so I thought I'd share it with you all [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE&ob=av3el"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE&ob=av3el[/url]

[quote name='silddx' post='1096831' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:18 PM']Versatile OR Dogmatic[/quote] Controversial.