TimR

[quote name='bigd1' timestamp='1460736510' post='3028356'] Luv it and I don't normally like the bowl of noodle type of playing, very Hendrix that at the time had very similar reactions from the lovely good ol US of A. Ta very glad [/quote] Yes. Me too. Thought it was quite good. I'm kind of getting a feel for the US Anthem thing. I'm guessing it's all part of being "free". Playing it straight would be a bit too conformist for them. I guess that's what they find so "English" and dare I say stuffy, about us and our queen.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1460705874' post='3027939'] Far from iconic, but I remember the time I first heard one of my isolated bass tracks in a recording session when I was 14... clank, buzz, parp, slap, clang... and a few notes in between... During a session last year I heard some more of my isolated bass... yep still the same [/quote] It's all masked by the drummer anyway.

Low E is c40hz. Low B is c30hz. 30hz won't do anything unless you have a 5string.

Quite Interesting. My 1980s Marlin Sidwinder maker is there. Terrible bass but I learned on it and played many gigs with it. Now fretless and in a gig bag in the loft.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1460303940' post='3024488'] I would have taken that bet - in a big crowd (even in Butlins) there would have been someone else who knew their rock music and would have thought that it wasn't quite right. If that same band had played a proper rock venue then the majority of the audience would have noticed the difference! [/quote] Maybe, but even the drummer I was playing with at the time thought they were excellent. And he only listens to rock and metal, plays too loud, fast and you are never sure whether his next fill would make the bar 4-1/2 beats long. 20years later and he's not improved, but that's another bass players problem now.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1460294564' post='3024391'] But would he really be a good drummer or merely a Jack of all trades, equally unconvincing in all genres?? [/quote] It really depends on the audience. I saw a very good professional rock band at a Butlins night club once. Something wasn't right. They didn't have tattoos and it was just slightly missing a certain edge. It was a flawless performance though and the crowd thought it was awesome. So who am I to judge? The next night the same guys were wearing suits and backing some pop singer in the main ballroom. I would have put £1k on me being the only person to notice.

What can are you playing through. I like the cut below 120, bit extreme maybe an there's no top end at all so wonder what the definition was like. If it works, it works.

As you say Pete, and it's the key point, you check with the landlord that it will be acceptable and don't play there if it isn't. Appropriate volume. Again. There's no point in turning up to play the gig and arguing all night with the landlord that "It has to be loud." If he is going to lose his pub license due to antisocial noise, you're not going to be asked back. Do these big name, big hitter, drummers ever play in their local pubs? I know plenty of drummers who say there is no point in playing certain venues as they will just be too loud for them. I'm sure they are quite capable of playing quietly, you can't play loudly all night. Without quiet sections everything is the same volume and you miss about 99% of what music is all about.

Chat Points. The more posts you make the better the rewards.

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1460209349' post='3023662'] Having just bought an old trace ah250 I did an a/b 'heft test' against my 500w markbass through the same cabs. The markbass seemed 'as loud' but more focused, the trace just had more.... ...Heft! So that was worth doing. [/quote] I think the consensus is that the cabs have become more efficient and capable of handling more power. I suspect the ampeg 8x10 was used for a reason. As you add more cabs you get more volume from the power available. It's a funny thing.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1460194962' post='3023394'] unfortunately, the supply of drummers being what they are, some of us less accomplished musicians can't be quite so picky, not if we want to carry on gigging anyway [/quote] Yes. My third point is a choice thing but the second point stands. The difficulty is how to get that through to them. I played for years with a drummer who was bad with volume and tempo and every gig felt like a battle. It's refreshing playing with a good drummer.

[quote name='mr zed' timestamp='1460181643' post='3023283'] ... The difference between then and now was attitude and expectation. .... People's expectations have changed - they want a major gig experience in the Dog and Duck (myself included) and we want to give it to them. [/quote] Definitely this. We used to play at parties, in people's houses! Can you believe that? A 4 piece band with drums in someone's front room. Madness recorded their first album in the front room of one of their houses. Including a piano and saxophone!

The proper way to mix for any venue is to get the vocals clear and distinct to the majority of the listeners. Then add the other instruments. It's nonsense to regulate the band volume to the kit. Drummers who can't regulate their volume to appropriate levels need drum lessons. I won't play with any 'self taught' drummers anymore.

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1460127045' post='3022866'] A particular favourite of mine (being the guy who controls our PA) is when a punter, who's been located completely out of proper earshot of the PA, tells me that our singer needs to be turned up. That's usually where the 'phantom' slider gets a nudge - (push an unused slider up a bit, 'Is that better mate?' - usually gets a thumbs up from said punter) [/quote] Ha. Yes I was the 'victim' of a DFA merchant. I told him there was no bass trough the PA. He smiled and nodded. Still no bass. I said try the solo PFA button, you have no signal. Que- embarrassed man in black tshirt running onto stage with new XLR cable and replacement DI box.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1460112932' post='3022672'] I refer my learned friend to [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282636-were-pubsmaller-venue-bands-quieter-in-the-past/page__view__findpost__p__3022207"]this earlier post[/url]. :-) [/quote] As I say. Appropriate volume. The people complaining were at the back. You turn up and the people at the front just talk louder. In that situation, you're in a very difficult place. One half of the audience want background music, the other half want a concert. In the majority of pub band cases where people have come to hear and see a band, you just won't be asked to turn it up louder than is necessary. Most modern PAs will be limited by feedback.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1460111545' post='3022647'] Not last week. The SRV style guitarist had to mic up the drums (he was a dep and playing quieter than the usual drummer) because he was getting swamped by the two of us! All very silly, but as I said before, the audience loved it! [/quote] It really depends what style of music you're playing, your audience and the size of the venue. The clue is always in the word 'appropriate' volume. That's the hard thing to get across to a lot of bands. Nothing wrong with ear destroying volume in the right scenario, but as some people have said; they're staying away because it's too loud. No one has ever complained that a band has been too quiet.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1460099344' post='3022480'] I used to build PA systems in the early 70's... ...makes more sense to ditch the huge, hyper efficient speakers and carry something manageable in terms of size and weight. [/quote] Absolutely. The PA cabs we had were heavy and big. Something like 1m X 0.5m on the front and just as deep, made from pretty heavy chipboard or 3/4" ply. That was for 50w a side, but they were fairly loud.

In the mid 80s we put the vocals through the 100w H/H, into a couple of 2x12" 25W Celestion speakers. The bass amp was 100w Peavey and the guitar some kind of Marshall amp. The vocals would have been pushed to the point of feedback but would easily distort at those kinds of volumes. No one complained we were too quiet or asked us to turn down. In the late 90s we were running vocals through 1500w peavy amp and mixer but maybe running at 1/3 if that. The only person who thought we weren't loud enough was the drummer - a lover of heavy metal - playing in a function band. We actually were given a residency at a club because we were able to play "at the appropriate volume for the venue". I now use a 500w head into 2x400w cabs. It rarely goes above 3, but sounds very clean and lots of people have said how nice the band sound. Bands have gotten louder, mainly due to inexpensive power, if your audience are not down the front with you; then you're too loud.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1460020318' post='3021768'] Yes, just think what he could have achieved if he hadn't been so tight and bought a P Bass instead! [/quote] Well, he did, and a Rickenbacker and a ... And whatever he plays now. The Violin bass is a testament to how we "hear with our eyes." Don't underestimate it. I played a pointy headstock 80s Chavel for years. Until I started playing functions, it just looked and felt wrong, sounded fine though. It still sounds great and I'd still play it if my new (slightly more expensive) bass wasn't better (subjectively speaking )

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1460010065' post='3021661'] For those of us who play functions or pubs and clubs , I see buying decent gear as no different to the guys my age who buy top of the range golf clubs or sports cars/bikes. Personally I'm happy with fairly standard classic basses , but I use multi amp which cost a lot just to play 50th birthday functions in golf clubs. Im not into golf, sports cars or anything else that requires purchasing equipment , and my bass playing just about almost pays for itself (if you don't factor in time) [/quote] That's a fairly good analagy. I think as you get better you begin to be limited by the club/bike/bass. However, there are guys who cycle and spend 000s on the lightest carbon frames but would be far better off losing 3stone and working on their fat burning.

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1459949719' post='3021158'] How many high performance motorcycles do you see where the tyres show no sign of being used in corners? When I think what we take for granted these days as being available, let alone affordable. I'm not sure it's fully appreciated just how well off we all are. [/quote] Quite. Probably about the same number as 4x4s in cities that think driving up a curb is going off-road. I don't really care what people spend on their basses, what does amuse me is the amount of care they give them. To me a bass is an instrument to be played and used. It will pick up damage. All is good as long as the guy with his diamond encrusted unicorn hair bass doesn't get upset when a punter spills beer down it.

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1459932176' post='3020877'] Indeed, the conspiracy has been going on for decades. For interest, did you know the 1 and 2 inputs on most Bassman amps from back in the day are different for a passive bass, a matter of different loading ? Input 1 is true high impedance, 2 is a step toward the sort of lower impedance inputs on modern amps devised for active inputs. 2 has somewhat lower impedance than 1, and the inputs can have subtle tonal differences with passive basses ? Both Bass and Normal Channels are like this, BTW. LD [/quote] Yes. The link I posted explains the way the impedance affects the frequency. Or rather that frequency and impedance are inexorably linked.

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1459768066' post='3019303'] Yeah, i meant it has the effect of adding a pad. [/quote] Adding a Pad is more like turning down the gain. If the impedances are wrong it still won't fix the problem. Some interesting reading: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may13/articles/using-di-boxes.htm

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1459757512' post='3019151'] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]We dont know if it was clipping or just not a good tone, but if it was clipping im at a loss to figure out how the passive input was fine but the active (assuming its a pad) wasnt.[/font] [/quote] It's not a pad, they're expecting different impedances. As I wrote above. Active basses have low output impedance across all frequencies, but passive basses will have differing impedances depending on the pickups and frequencies.

They used to be high and low impedance, referring to different types of microphones. Low would be expecting an input with about 150ohms and hi would expect about 15kohms. Active basses have buffered inputs and present a low impedance to the amp and while it doesn't really matter whether you plug them into the high or the low, it can have an effect on the high frequencies.