Count Bassy

I have a Fender Urge Mk1 (32" scale) with the two jazz pick ups and a P pickup between them. Generally I'm very happy with it, but have always found that the sound of the P Pickup is very similar to the sound of the two Jazzes blended together, and as such it seems a bit of a waste. (perhaps Stu Hamm's ear is more sensitive than mine). For those who don't know the instrument it has a small body (smaller than a strat) and thinnish neck, with generally a bright tone - in fact I've already gone to ground wounds in order to dull the tone down a bit. Anyway, I've now decided to do something about it, to try and get a more useful range of tones. I have spoken to Andy at Wizard (who is not familiar with the instrument), and we sort of concluded that a sensible thing to try would be to try a Thumper in place of the standard P pick up and leave the jazzes as they are. He also pointed out that part of the problem could be that the P, being between the two Js, is probably closer to the bridge than it would be ideally. However, this is all conjecture, I've not a great experience of different pick ups, and have never heard a Thumper in the flesh, and would it sound the same on this small bodied bass anyway? Having said that, I suspect that what I want is for the P pickup to sound more like a precision bass, even though it is not on a precision bass body/neck. So, I'm really after opinions on what I should try, especially if anyone out there has had the same 'problem' with an Urge and has done something about it. I don't really want to change the bass as I love it in all other respects. The cost of a Thumper isn't a problem if it gives me what I want, but I don't want to buy that only to decide that really I wanted to change the Jazz pick ups! Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Easy enough to make surely?

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='509239' date='Jun 9 2009, 04:51 PM']Or swap the jack plate on the back of your speaker cabinet for a speakon. S.P.[/quote] +1. Despite being used as such for years Jack plugs are really not suitable for speaker connections. The have exposed contacts which means that a loose cable end can easily short out against any metal object. Speakons are far better bet since the contacts on both the plugs and sockets are finger/touch proof, they lock into place, and there is no chance of confusing them with instrument leads.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='497926' date='May 26 2009, 12:42 PM']No, it totally depends on the individual components. Some valve preamps sound amazing and valvey, some sound amazing but not in a valvey way, and some sound mediocre. Just like generalising on tone based on speaker diameter leads you to often incorrect conclusions, so does generalising based on amp topology. Alex[/quote] Ah, the thread has come back to life. Alex, When I wrote what I thought was a concluding summary (as the thread seemed to have dried up) what I said seemed to be the overriding view of the posts up to that point. I wasn't expressing my own opinion as I don't have one - hence the questions in the original post! Since my premature summary the weight of opinion seems to be going back towards yes the valve should make a difference but it depends on the valve (and other factors). I believe that the valve in the Marshall B150 is a 12AX7. Assuming that it's still the original valve can anyone suggest an alternative valve to try, something that might make the difference between the valve and the SS pre-amps a bit more noticable/useful. I get the impression from the above that the difference is most noticable when going into distortion, is this correct? Thanks again for your thoughts folks.

The problem I see is that without the weight of a bass behind it the whole thing would move when you tried to pluck it, especially when, as in the picture, trying to play it while it's swinging on a piece of string.

Just so that people don't think there's anything dodgy going on I am announcing that I have changed my user name to 'Count Bassy' Someone recently pointed out to me that anyone googling the band name and my real name name gets to the thread I started about sacking the drummer, and I don't really want anyone googling the band (as if - except perhaps the ex drummer) to stumble upon that thread. The Count - formerly known as Clive Thorne

Well, after a few delays I received the samples from Neutrik - a couple of straights and a couple of right angled. The straight one they sent has a rubber coated body (don't know if the non rubberised one is still available), but the right angle one looks identical to the older version. However the sleeve mechanism on both, despite looking the same as before, is a noticably looser fit and has a weaker spring, which will help with the reported problem (not seen it myself) of them self ejecting. More importantly, I've tried bending the plugs sidways and always, and have not been able to get a sleeve to stick, so it would seem that that particular problem has been resolved. Hooray!

[quote name='Mr.T' post='484829' date='May 11 2009, 09:30 AM'](I wouldn't even consider using wire wool).[/quote] Out of interest, why not? I've had great results with it, though admitedly I've never actually used it on a guitar.

Seems like I'll not be getting the reasoned response to my last posting on the tuner thread that I was hoping for. Ah well, probably for the best. Mods, I think you did the right thing to close the other one downs - better do the same to this one!

We want to put some snippets of our band on our website, but we currently only do covers. What is the legal sitaution with this? Are we allowed a certain length without paying anything? Do we pay the PRS or what.? What about songs that might be out of copyright - how do we find out if they are - What is the length of copyright these days? Thanks in advance

Whoah, tons happened while I was typing out my reply to RSLaing's reply to my post. But, RS laing, you quote: [quote name='rslaing' post='496930' date='May 24 2009, 11:36 PM']From the Peterson site:- We can purposely shift certain scale notes closer to or farther from their neighbors to make perfect intervals or chords in some places. If we choose wisely, we can make the most important chords in a given key be the perfect ones. [b]This is the concept behind Just Intonation (JST in the Temperament Menu of Peterson tuners).[/b] In the key of C, the chords of C major, F major, and G major can each have perfectly harmonious tuning intervals. Unfortunately, other chords, especially those in more remote keys like C# and F#, sound much worse than they would in equal temperament. If an instrument like a piano is tuned in Just Major temperament for the key of C, notes and chords that fall in the C Major scale sound wonderful. Modulating to the key of G, most chords sound good, some not quite as good. If one takes a more adventurous trek into the key of E, say, some real "ear-sores" start to develop in certain chords and intervals. Historically, the clinkers are dubbed "wolf tones" which gives some indication of their "charm". If you can disprove this, sue them.[/quote] If you have read this than you will see that even they say that Just temperament makes common chords in some keys sound nicer - but that chords in other keys sound worse. If your singer says 'can we take it up a semi tone', or (I imagine) if your playing jazz, then you're fcuked. Even if they could acheive perfect Just intonation then it only works for a limited number of chords. As i said in my previous post, Just tuning is itself a compromise, in the same way that equal temperament is. Edited - and of course any temperament depends on all the other instruments also being in that temperament. I would want to wait between songs while the piano is retuned.

[quote name='rslaing' post='496891' date='May 24 2009, 10:39 PM'][/quote] ""The peterson probably can help with equal temperament stuff by using compensated tunings, but this is more to do with features than accuracy. Also, even with funny tunings and intonations this can only help hide the problems caused by equal temperament frets. It cannot make an equal temperament fretboard produce, for example, a just temperament scale. [b]OH YES IT CAN. READ THE MANUAL ONLINE[/b]" [i]As DLloyd has also said, this would involve moving frets around. Yes a compensated tuning can help, but it cannot make it perfect. Even if it could achieve perfect Just tuning, Just tuning is itself a still compromise. [/i] "The only way to do this is by bending each note to the right pitch, which you are then reckognising by ear, so the accuracy of the tuner is rather wasted. [b]RUBBISH! imho[/b]" [i]Compensating tunings can help, but bending each not is the only way that you can make an equally tempered fretboard play each note in the scale play spot on. You are then under human control rather than tuner control[/i] "Fretting harder than you normally do could be down to bad technique. [b]CORRECT[/b]" [i]Why, thank you.[/i] "Plucking harder and softer is a necessary part of playing - unless you play all your notes at the same volume - which would be rather boring. [b]SOUNDS LIKE AN EXCUSE TO ME[/b]" [i]So you are saying that you play all your notes at the same volume. Fair enough, but have you heard the expression 'Dynamics'?[/i] "Not pressing the string completely normal to the keyboard might be bad technique, but I'm sure every one does it ocassionally. [b]REALLY?[/b]" [i]Yes. Really![/i] "Strings going out of tune with temperature is nothing to do with technique, more physics. [b]BUY AN INSTRUMENT WITH A GRAPHITE NECK - LESSER CHANCE [/b]" [i]I'm curious as to what you strings are made of. Mine are made of metal and thus expand when warm, reducing the tension, and thus flattening the note. and, conversly, go sharp when the get colder.[/i] "Strings going flat when you fret two strings is nothing to do with technique (unless your technique means only ever playing one note at a time)[b]BOLLOCKS[/b]" [i]When you fret two strings then there is an increase in tension in those two stings that will cause the neck to pull forward, and hence flatten the notes slightly. Of course this is imperceptibe to the human ear, but then that is what we're talking about with the accuracy of the petersen and turbo tuners. I'm afraid that just replying 'Bollocks' does not help your cedibilty.[/i] "Intonation will not be accurate at all frets - nothing to do with technique. Compensating tunings help - but do not solve the problem. [b]YES THEY DO. I have a strobe tuner that has proved this to be the case - have you?[/b]" [i]No, but the frets are set up mathematically according to an equal temperament scale. Compensating tunings etc can help in the overal apearance of in tuneness, but cannot make it perfect.[/i] "I'm not saying, and never said, that the cheaper tuners are more accurate than the peterson or the turbo thingamy, but that in 99% of cases they are quite accurate enough. [b]NOT IN MY EXPERIENCE, NOR THE PROFESSIONALS I HAVE WORKED WITH - and I wouldn't want a pro luthier to set up any of my expensive instruments with el crappo £20 tuner[/b]" [i]But setting up of guitars probably constitutes less than 1% of total tuner usage, which is why I said 99% and not 100%.[/i] "In most real situations there are many features of a tuner that are more important than accuracy. For stage use I'd be looking at robustess, readabilty for 2 metres away on a dark stage, Speed of response, abilty to pick up the fundamental and, if its a stomp box style, the ability to mute the output while the tuner is active. etc etc. [b]ALL OF WHICH APPLIES TO THE PETERSON STROBOSTOMP[/b]" [i]I'm very pleased to hear it. It also applies to many perfectly adequate tuners that cost much less.[/i] "If accuracy and compensating tunings is what you want (as per the original posting) then go for the turbo thingamy jig (apparently more accurate than a Peterson), but in most cases a much cheaper device will be perfectly adequate."[/i] AYE..IF YOU HAVE DEFICIENT TONAL HEARING DISABILITY." [i]Now you're just getting personal and rude. Perhaps you've been drinking and will be good enough to apologise once you've sobered up?[/i] "go for the turbo thingamy jig"[/i] Great advice.but the Peterson still has more advantageous features.......[/b] [b]It would be great, instead of hearing from people with unproved theories but with a great propensity for ridicule, to read experiences from people who actually own a Peterson strobe tuner[/b]." [i]Seems to me that You are the one with the propensity to ridicule here. Most people here are offering reasonable points of view and making reasonable points. If you only want to hear from people with a Peterson tuner it would seem that you only want to hear from people who might agree with you. Sounds to me like you realise that your argument is a bit thin.[/i] By the way, did you realise that typing everything in capitals is considered to be shouting, and as being very rude. Anticipating your reasoned, and non shouted, reply.

So to summarise, the general feeling is that valve pre-amp into SS power stage is a waste of time (I guess that must go for the valve powered effects units as well then). So if I'm sticking with SS amps then I'd be better off looking for a good flexible equalisation section. Thanks for your thoughts.

[quote name='rslaing' post='496645' date='May 24 2009, 03:41 PM']You should have read the previous posts. The Peterson combats a lot of the points you have made, including problems with equal temperament on fretted instruments. The others points you have made are down to bad technique - so I suppose a Strobe tuner will definitely not help with that. A lot of the criticism here is coming from people who haven't got a strobe tuner, so logically their comments can be disregarded. They also haven't got a clue about the various benefits as they assume it is just a more accurate tuner - it isn't. It actually adjusts the tuning of the guitar (basically making it "out of tune" with itself) but making it more in tune aurally. But I can see there is no point in attempting to explain this judging by the reactions of the tone deaf amongst us. I suggest people try one (it takes a few weeks to get the old tuner mentality out of the way, and actually learn how to use the strobe to it's greatest efect) and then give a more accurate appraisal instead of just giving reasons why they "think/assume" a cheapo pile of crap tuner could do the same job.[/quote] The peterson probably can help with equal temperament stuff by using compensated tunings, but this is more to do with features than accuracy. Also, even with funny tunings and intonations this can only help hide the problems caused by equal temperament frets. It cannot make an equal temperament fretboard produce, for example, a just temperament scale. The only way to do this is by bending each note to the right pitch, which you are then reckognising by ear, so the accuracy of the tuner is rather wasted. Fretting harder than you normally do could be down to bad technique. Plucking harder and softer is a necessary part of playing - unless you play all your notes at the same volume - which would be rather boring. Not pressing the string completely normal to the keyboard might be bad technique, but I'm sure every one does it ocassionally. Strings going out of tune with temperature is nothing to do with technique, more physics. Strings going flat when you fret two strings is nothing to do with technique (unless your technique means only ever playing one note at a time) Intonation will not be accurate at all frets - nothing to do with technique. Compensating tunings help - but do not solve the problem. I'm not saying, and never said, that the cheaper tuners are more accurate than the peterson or the turbo thingamy, but that in 99% of cases they are quite accurate enough. In most real situations there are many features of a tuner that are more important than accuracy. For stage use I'd be looking at robustess, readabilty for 2 metres away on a dark stage, Speed of response, abilty to pick up the fundamental and, if its a stomp box style, the ability to mute the output while the tuner is active. etc etc. If accuracy and compensating tunings is what you want (as per the original posting) then go for the turbo thingamy jig (apparently more accurate than a Peterson), but in most cases a much cheaper device will be perfectly adequate.

[quote name='OldGit' post='496663' date='May 24 2009, 04:29 PM']There IS a smiley there, Clive [/quote] Fair point OG. and to be fair I've often said myself that 'work would be great if it weren't for the ******* customers"!

Haven't read the whole thread, but +1 to the idea that however well you tune it, 1/10th or 1/100th of a cent, whatever, the moment you play a real note it will be out of tune by that amount. Plucking it hard will make it sharp Any temperature change will make it go up or down Fretting a note slightly harder than usual will make it go sharp Fretting a note other than directly downwards will make it go sharp Fretting two notes together might make it go flat (extra load on the neck) Iintonation setting is only going to be accurate at the points you actually set it, be it the 12th, 19th fret or what ever. etc etc And that's before we've even started on the fretless ... or non equal temperament tunings on a fretted. ... or relief in the neck etc Highly accurate and great bits of kit some of these tuners might be, but surely, to a large extent, thay are a solution without a problem!

[quote name='51m0n' post='476916' date='May 1 2009, 12:26 PM']I rest me case. Bloody stupid response. Course she does, even if she only says 'I've got my timbres sorted, but I want the pads to sit in the mix like they do in this track' would be better. Musicians are the bane of engineers lives [/quote] To keep this in perspective here, and with all due respects to sound engineers, but without musicians there would be no sound engineers. If you can't work with musicians then I'd suggest that sound engineering is a good career (or even hobby) choice.

I have a Marshall MB150 combo (150W 15" speaker, no tweeter) which has both Solid State and Valve pre amps, with the ability to blend between the two. The thing is though, I really can't hear that much difference between the two. Yes there is a difference, particularly if you overdrive it - the valve distorts more gently, but if your not overdriving it the difference is minor compared to what can be obtained with the various eq settings (this combo has bass, treble and a a 7 band equalizer, along with Bright and Deep buttons). SO: [list] [*]Am I just cloth eared? [*]Is this combo just a bad example of a valve preamp/ good example of a SS preamp? [*]Is this particular combo design just not able to show the difference? [*]Could it just be that the the valve in the preamp is shagged? [*]Is the whole thing about the 'Valve sound' just over stated and the same affect can be acheived through a modern Eq circuit? [*]Would a different brand valve in the pre-amp make a more marked difference? [*]are there other factors that I've not thought of? [/list] Please let's try not to make this a slanging match about Marshall, or a protracted argument about Valve versus Solid State. - I'm looking for answers rather than an argument. Many thanks for your thoughts.

Well, we've done it!! We had a band meeting (without drummer) at the weekend and agreed what had to be done. The singer volunteered to tell him as she knows him fairly well, and as she said, if she hadn't told him he'd have asked why she hadn't. Also I think she felt slightly responsible as she'd brought him into the band based on his blagging. She's done the deed today, and apparently it didn't go as bad as it might have. Apparently she told him it was about commitment, which it wasn't really - it was about ability, but it's done at least, and the rest of us owe her a drink. He did the classic thing by saying 'you can't sack me because I quit', and has sent a slighty sore (understandably) E-mail round saying that he's quit and wishing the band well. The E-mail was 4 hours after he'd been sacked, but if that's how he wants to think of it then its fine by me. Anyway, we're now free to move forward. Thanks for all your thoughts and advice.

[quote name='thumbo' post='488947' date='May 15 2009, 02:59 PM']There have been 2 significant price increases throughout many music industry distributors in the past 6 months. The first one was last November and the second was around the beginning of April. It's this damn climate. No one wants to raise their prices but shops are forced to when their suppliers are upping prices, it's simply a knock-on effect. Even UK-built products are being drawn into this because they are often sourcing their materials from outside the UK. Sadly it's something we'll just have to get used to, or at least until the Dollar rate is a bit kinder to us![/quote] But on the positive side, if you're buying, and for now at least, second hand prices (unless its something really rare or exotic) seem to be collapsing.

I am in a fledgling five piece blues band. Not done anything out yet but first gig end of this month, and two or three more over the next few months. The problem is that four of us are around the same sort of level but the drummer is just not up to the same standard, by a long way. Its not like we're all brilliant musicians, but the rest of us are way ahead of him and, for various reasons I'll not go into, he's not likely to get any better. A couple of us realised this a long time ago, but the situation was complicated because the singer is a good friend of the drummer. Anyway, last weekend the subject was broached with the singer who with great relief said that she was glad someone had said so, because she thought the same thing (she hadn't actually heard him play and was taken in by his own opinion of his abilities). So the four of us are pretty well agreed that the drummer has got to go, but how do we break it to him? Unfortunately he seems to be unaware of the difference in our levels. Indeed, when drunk, (ie often - but that's another matter), he seems to believe that he's one of the best drummers in the world. So not only have we got to sack him, but if he asks why we've got to shatter his illusions as to his ability as well. To be honest it's got to the point that if we don't sack him than then myself and the Keys/sax player would probably leave the band. I've never been in this position before, So, given that we don't want to cause more upset than necessary, how do we do it? Thanks in advance for any thoughts. PS We don't have a manager, so we can't pass the buck.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='487016' date='May 13 2009, 03:59 PM']I have played the B150 and I did like it but I didn't think it was loud enough for my needs.[/quote] It's loud enough for me currently, but I can envisage situations where I would need more, unless it went through the PA. (If PA is available then I'd always put it through that anyway, otherwise how can the sound man do his job?) Again, re the volume, I have found that I end up plugging an active bass into the passive input, and have the gain pretty high. In this way you can get a clean sound via the SS pre, or a nicely distorted sound via the valve pre. I've also found that you can push the overall volume up by pushing the Equaliser settings towards the top. Even like this I haven't had any hint of unwanted distortion or speaker flap.

Thanks for all your comments folks. I can now come clean and say that I've actually got the B65 combo and am generally happy with the sound, except that it can tend to get speaker flap on the low notes at volume, and its not really man enough for full band rehearsals/stage. Bassed on that I bought a B150 as it was going cheap and am also happy with that - no speaker flap at any volume or pitch, and a huge range of tones. The B150 only cost £100 on t'bay, where as the equivalent Trace Elliot (specification wise) would, I suspect, have gone for two to three times that. I should also come clean and say that I haven't much experience of anything else. I've played through a Roland Cube 100 at my bass teachers, which I like a lot, a Trace combo in a rehearsal room which was also OK. - and I've played through an Ampeg something or other amp and an Ampeg 8x10 cabinet on a stage. All of these have been OK, but I know that the Ampeg kit was about £3.5Ks worth, so you'd expect it to be good wouldn't you. Re: "Were you hearing the amp or FOH? If he was DI'ed (and he probably would have been) maybe you weren't hearing the amp at all." Certainly some front of house (but don't know how much) as I was stood about 3/4 the way down the (village) hall (I think you you get a better sound than stood at the front).

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='485971' date='May 12 2009, 02:35 PM']I got that when I changed from XL rounds to Chromes (flats). There's a tiny increase in tension between the string types, but the difference in stiffness is very noticeable. It was also the change in string surface that made my plucking fingers suffer. The increased contact surface area on the flats meant some very sore fingertips for the first few times I played them. Is there a noticeable difference in surface feel between Slinkies and ProSteels? (I've never used either type!) Also, we shouldn't forget that there are factors of instrument build which affect the [b]perceived[/b] tension or softness of strings, like break angles over nut and bridge, and length from nut to tuning post. That means that the same strings on different basses might feel very different, even though the strings are at exactly the same tension (assuming identical tuning on identical scale lengths). This article has an interesting little section about two-thirds of the way down about exactly those factors: [url="http://www.noyceguitars.com/Technotes/Articles/T3.html"]http://www.noyceguitars.com/Technotes/Articles/T3.html[/url][/quote] From that article: "This formula may look pretty formidable: just take it for granted (it's actually derived from the fact that the note produced by a string is proportional to the speed that sound travels in the string, and that speed in turn depends on how tense and how heavy the string is." I dispute that. It's nothing to do with the speed of sound in the string. If I remember correctly it's to do with the mass of the string/unit length and the force produced by the displacement of the string by plucking, i.e good old Newton's laws of force, mass, and acceleration. Please correct me if I'm wrong (it's been 30 years since my Physics degree).

I ask this because I was at a Roger Chapman gig at the weekend and the bassist (Gary Twig) appeared to be playing a Marshall DBS 7400 through a DBS 7412 (4 x12) cabinet, and to me it sounded great - Rich, but also crisp and punchy. Obviously the sound depends on many things, but the amp and cab must be pretty important, mustn't it? Yet whenever Marshall come up on these pages people seem to be queing up to slag them off. Are they really that bad, or is it just that they're not trendy enough for the bassist around town to be seen with? As far as I can see the equivalent spec Trace Elliot, for example, will typically sell for twice as much as the Marshall, which either means that the Marshalls are no good, or that there are some real bargains to be had out there? Would they be more popular if they were orange or light green, or had quaint dial type VU meters?