OutToPlayJazz

I was looking at one of these in Electro today as it happens! Very nice basses & a fantastic job on the fretless neck - You're a braver man than me

I think Nash would fall into the Super Jazz category, wouldn't it? I'll see what I can do

Just curious as to which Fender Jazz you'd all most like to own, or which one you already own that you think is the bee's knees I've had a few Jazzes now & my favourites are the Road Worn for it's amazing vintage sound & feel, the American Standard for all the improvements & quality, or my current 50th Anniversary for being such an eclectic mix of all the best bits. Discuss your Jazz bass satisfactions and dreams...

It's a tough call... As others have said, the American Standard is a very well equipped bass package with the hardcase, posiflex graphite rods, high mass bridge & they do sound great - You played the one I had when you came here didn't you, Nathan? The Road Worn is a different kettle of pilchards altogether. The nitro finish really does let the sound ring out & there is something about them. You can get both at around the same price, actually. Most places will do one or the other for £799 if you haggle hard enough. I tend to think of it like this... The Am.Std is the modern version of the Jazz with all the best refinements. It plays and sounds grown up, mixing the classic J sound with some modern touches, whereas the Road Worn plays and sounds like Jazz basses did in the 60's. That original growly burp is there in abundance. Back off the tone control, play on the back pickup only & you've got Jaco sounds in spades. The scary thing about the Road Worn is that I have no idea how they made it sound so good. There's some voodoo going on there somewhere! I can only assume a lot of it has to do with the nitro finish. Oh, and btw... The pickup spacing on both is 60's.

After having ordered a couple of the new Epiphone Thunderbird Pro models for clients, when I came to want a "beater", or a cheaper bass for myself that was appropriate for taking to open mic nights & letting someone else have a go without any worries, I went for one of these bargains straight away. The Thunderbird is a classic shape, but a little out of the norm - [i]Perhaps something a little different, Sir? [/i] If you look on the Gibson website these basses are marked as "MSRP $832", which is thankfully a lot more than they're going for over here, especially on internet shopping sites. The average in-store deal here in the UK gets you one of these for around £300-350 or just under. Cheapest at the time of writing is £280 from Thomann.de. Clearly, this is a lot of bass for the money. Since having bought two of these for students and having subsequently played a few more examples today, I've now experienced all the pros and cons of this particular model. The only real gripe is the much reported (over on TB) pickup faults on 5-string models where the 5th coil set for the B-string is apparently missing. I found one of the 5-string examples I tried had this particular fault, which is easily noticeable via the B-string sounding as if it's seriously low on output volume compared to the other strings. Basically, during production some of the 5-stringers are ending up with 4-string pickups under 5-string covers. The first T-Bird Pro I played had an amazing sound (back at the start of the year) but was one of the natural ones with a particularly rough, unfinished neck. All of the subsequent models I've played have been either the trans black or the vintage sunburst models, all of which have a rich poly finish & smooth painted neck. Much better. So, the instrument we have here is a VSB 4-string with a nice new set of Rotosound Nexus black coated alloy strings. I always make a point of changing the strings on any new instrument, as the manufacturer's own strings are often not great - The Epiphone strings are actually quite nice and soft with a well chosen medium gauge, but the A-string was dead on this particular bass straight out of the box, so I changed the whole set in order to get a better impression of the instrument. [u][b]Design, hardware and construction [/b][/u] The T-Bird Pro follows the much copied design of Epiphone's parent company Gibson's Thunderbird model. I actually got the chance to A/B the two together today & the differences are quite interesting. The Gibson original makes the more vintage sound, but the new active Epiphone sounds like a much more modern bass with a much more adaptable tone palette. The Epi seems to have more of a sculpted waist than it's parent & looks a little more elegant to my eye, too. The new bass is constructed in a similar way to the original, but with a through neck design based on a 7-piece maple & walnut laminated centre section & mahogany wings glued onto the sides. Overall finish is excellent with a thick & lustrous poly gloss varnish which looks like it will stand the test of time. The rosewood fingerboard looks nicely selected & is also glossed at the edges (much like high range Fenders are these days), with a nice buffed finish & mother of pearl dot markers in the usual places. Tuners are small Gotoh-type units & work smoothly with plenty of tuning stability. One of the most impressive aspects of the T-Bird Pro is the bridge. Gone is the old floating three-point bridge found on most T-Birds (whether Epiphone or Gibson) & in it's place is a top loading Schaller-type bridge which is very substantial in it's look & feel. The other impressive piece of hardware worth mentioning is the painted brass nut. You don't see brass nuts on mass produced instruments very often, but you're never going to have to replace the nut on a T-Bird Pro. Safe as houses! [b][u]Electronics[/u][/b] Opening the control panel on the back of the bass reveals a very simple looking cavity where the ultra modern sounding Pro belies it's humble passive roots. Simple pots are abound as you'd see in any passive bass & the preamp is a small black box with a multi-connector, not unlike one of the small Aguilar units. The cavity is neatly organised & well shielded. No problems here. The pickups are new humbuckers that the company are calling "Pro-buckers" - Basically twin soap bars placed in the middle & bridge positions. Output of the bass is huge and up there with some of the best active basses around, the little black box pre giving huge wads of bass frequency & very nice sparkly treble which never gets too harsh. Top marks again here for the money. [u][b]Playing impressions [/b][/u] The principal thing everyone complains about on a T-Bird is neck dive, usually due to the placement of the front strap retainer coupled with the odd shaped body, featuring no top horn as such. Well, using a good quality wide suede backed leather strap, I can't honestly say I detected any dive at all & at any rate, the design of the bass lends itself to the player resting their forearm on the top body contour, which cancels out any potential balance issues. The neck is slim, like a rounder Jazz neck & very fast. Interestingly, the same sort of radius is used on the 5-string, making it a bit more of a handful. Had the 5er had a flatter, thinner profile, it would have been a lot nicer to play. 5-string necks don't need to be huge these days, y'know As mentioned earlier, the little "black box" 2-band preamp is excellent & frequencies are well chosen, giving plenty of clean boost & none of the nasty stuff you find on a lot of cheaper active basses. This bass has a lot of punch per pound, simple as that! So if you're looking for a budget bass which will suit many styles of music, look no further. I can see this bass furthering the Thunderbird's job description a lot further - The new electronics package means that this instrument can cover almost any style with the huge variety of sounds available & T-Bird no longer means just slung low & rocking. It slaps like a demon too, so perhaps it's going to be the next funk thing? Best of all is the price. Where else can you get all this for under £300 in one package?

That's a tough one - I see you've already got an S2, so your Jazz is a backup bass, really. I'd sell the Jazz and go for something new if the money isn't an issue as such.

All round ability, great technique, great sound, excellent sight reading, adaptability (the ability to switch between styles comfortably), locking in with the drummer, listening to what's going on around you, driving the band forwards and not letting things lag behind or race ahead, laying down what's written, necessary & adding your own little bit of sparkle where you can. Oh, and add a dollop of experience there & you've just about got the right mix. Now, that's not too much to ask, is it?

Indeed, looks like a really nice bass to me. A resounding yes from these quarters, too.

[quote name='Marvin' post='849742' date='May 27 2010, 08:11 PM']Good post OTPJ, but a little excessive posting it twice, don't you think? [/quote] Hahaha! I hadn't realised I'd done that - The server froze on me at the time.

Basically, the neck profile would change on it's own within a week usually. In cold weather it would contract, so need extra relief & on warmer days there'd be too much relief where the neck had expanded. Basically, the necks on these basses are shaved too thin. The standard thickness J neck is a much more stable beast.

Basically, some drummers will sit behind the beat just a touch and others will push it on - Usually with the snare hits or fills being too hasty. I only know one drummer who sits on the beat like a metronome & that's Neil Bullock from the Birmingham area. He really is like a human atomic clock. So this is why it's necessary for a bass player to drive the band. Not only do singers and wind/brass players aurally pitch from the bass, but the bass player needs to drive the band along and give a feeling of forward motion, or it will usually grind down in speed a little. There's another school of thought that says bass frequencies are slower to bounce off things, so the bass player needs to be slightly ahead of the beat, anticipating it. This mainly comes from classical double bass circles, but I don't particularly go with this one. I prefer to feel where the beat should be by listening to what's going on around me & place the note bang in the middle of the beat, where it should be. I know other very good pro drummers who will rush and I can feel that I have to pull them back a bit. This is why I love playing to click tracks. It makes all this sooo easy!

Yes, you do get some single coil hum from the Japanese Fender single coils, but no more or less than most Jazzes. Only the American Standard (again!) is usually whisper quiet.

I had one a while back & the only complaint I had was the super thin shaved neck. It would change shape in literally every weather change. I was adjusting the trussrod on an almost weekly basis & I've never had to do that on any other bass before or since. The finish on these is great, though. Lovely quality to them. Personally, for a little extra money, I'd go for the new American Standard - The extras you get are worth the outlay, as is the extra stability with the slightly thicker and graphite rod-equipped neck.

Also, look where the nut is positioned on mine in comparison to the OP's bass - His nut is almost 10mm further down the neck.

Yes, looks like someone's mention of around 2mm off the fingerboard at the nut is about right. I've just been looking at your pics again - The way the strings are mounted into the nut looks about right to my eye - Then I blew up the picture & realised it's not the way the nut is cut, but the fact that the groove that the nut sits in hasn't been cut deep enough! If you look, the nut is only recessed about 1-2mm into the neck.

I don't know if any of my Sterling/MusicMan pics got that close up - I'll have a search... Edit: This is as close as I got...

Yes, a needle file needs taking to those nut grooves. Way too high. The neck relief looks fine from the picture. Nothing out of the ordinary. I was able to set my Ray 34 neck almost flat (with just the slightest hint of relief) with no buzz at all. Pickup height doesn't look too bad, either. I usually set MM pickups with the pole tops about 4mm from the strings.

A lot of it can be to do with left hand technique - Try making sure the neck is never actually held in the palm of your hand. The only real contact should be between the fingertips on the strings & the first joint of the thumb on the back of the neck (preferably being opposite your middle finger.) You can always gain more dexterity by pushing the wrist forwards, so you're coming at the neck from underneath as opposed to from behind. Look at Tal Wilkenfeld's left wrist. That's a good example of the correct shape to adopt. But wider necks do slow you down a little. I find a noticable difference between my four stringers and fives in terms of speed and dexterity. Oddly though, even the 44.5mm nut width on the 62AV Precision didn't slow me down much, but the greater girth was certainly noticeable. At the end of the day it's all down to what you're used to & left hand technique is all important. Stick with the MusicMan for a while and see how you go, Seb

A little bit of Status history here. Those of you in the know will know that the early Status prototypes were called "Strata" until Rob got a note of legality from the Fender MIC saying that "Strata" was a little too close to Stratocaster, and hence Status-Graphite was born in the early 80's. The Moo (here and on Statii) owns a very early Strata fretless, no.005 and I recently got talking to Kevin who owns Strata no.004. I got some pictures in my inbox today, not only of no.4, but also Kevin's early Status guitar...

Yes, there were some very narrow minded (even blinkered) comments about bass players, but as the others have mentioned, the programme was aimed at Joe Public, who let's face it, can't tell a bass from a guitar. No harm done. We know better

[quote name='Stacker' post='849115' date='May 27 2010, 07:27 AM']Are they worth £950 though?[/quote] I did a review on here of the same bass. It's in the reviews section. Yes, they're worth every penny, but you can get them as low as £799 if you shop around. Definitely a cut above the rest.

I also just remembered this bass... This sounds truly amazing & very versatile. Available from www.thomann.de for £965. Sounds like a bargain to me!

Luckily, mine are some of the working tools for my trade, so therefore tax deductable - The basses that is, not the missus!

Personally, I'd say that the walnut Squier isn't going to be a huge amount different to the agathis VMJ model. Sounds like you need to get out there fretless hunting, Michael

They're actually two very different instruments - The Marcus Miller Japanese signature model is usually made of just about the heaviest piece of ash you'll ever encounter. The gloss finishing, hardware & overall build quality is stunning on these, but they're let down by the absence of a passive tone control, noisy Japanese pickups & the fact that the Fender preamp is possibly the worst preamp out there. Harsh sounding nasty $2.50 thing! The new American Standard is a great bass - The necks are among the most stable Jazz necks around (with the posiflex graphite rods), the new thinner undercoat really does let more tone through the wood & the satin necks/gloss fingerboards (maple board versions only) are really nice, too. The new American pickups are shielded very well and the Am.Std is one of the few very quiet (buzz-wise) single coil Jazzes out there. So even though the MM is a lovely thing to hold and look at, I'd still go for the American Standard as the default player's choice.