Beer of the Bass

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1492265042' post='3279094'] I agree on the rose tinted specs with regard to some of the content, you can't please everybody, as tastes in music differ (fortunately) but I still think the format was superior to Later. [/quote] While I feel it could have done with fewer mimed performances, I think I do prefer the old OGWT format without the studio audience or the unconvincing party atmosphere of Later. Although Bob Harris's attitude towards anything he considered to be unworthy was rather off-putting and did the show no favours IMO. In retrospect it seems comically short-sighted to have been so dismissive of acts like Roxy Music as Harris was...

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1492260935' post='3279073'] I have never ever been able to get a sound I'm happy with from that Orange rig... ever. And that stage is so sensitive to excessive volume and/or bass... I always take my 210 cab to put on top of their 410 and only use that. I still use what they have sometimes if it's not practical for me to bring my own stuff but I'm never as happy, and that's with the 'less busy onstage' bands (RATM and Urang Matang), with SBK having 3 guitarists.... forget it. [/quote] Yeah, it's an odd choice for a house rig really, since those heads distort so easily and have a baked-in tone that the controls can't do much about. The cab being down at floor level doesn't help either. I still feel like I'm fighting it a bit, but got it somewhere tolerable last night, and a small amount of preamp dirt seems to work OK for me in this band. We had the guitarists combo sitting on top of the (unplugged) house 4x12", which helped a bit to keep things clear and less muddy. The guitarist has been a pro sound guy in some good sized venues for years, so he's at least fairly good at not doing anything daft with his sound on stage even if he does like to turn up a bit! We're still at a volume level that I can just about manage with my GK MB200 and pair of 1x12"s, so while we're loud by my standards, we're probably not [i]that[/i] loud in the scheme of things.

Last night's gig was quite satisfying, in a band that we originally intended to be a bluesy trio but which is steadily drifting in a more rockish direction with a mixture of covers and originals. It's not a style I've done much of previously, but we're having fun and getting paid, so it's all good! It was a decent sized room so the guitarist got away with being a bit louder than usual on stage, which kind of enhances the rock angle for us. I used the house Orange Terror Bass and matching 4x10", and unusually the sound guy was happy to run a mic on the cab. I like to kick in some fuzz on a few tunes, and it works much better that way. After a couple of gigs in that venue I think this might be the first time I've figured out how to get a sound I'm happy with out of the Orange, by cranking the mid up a fair bit and turning the gain down so that it only breaks up a little. I would have preferred to bring my own amp, but the street the venue on is not the easiest spot for parking and access. This was also the first time I've attempted backing vocals at a gig (with this band), and I've definitely got some work to do there, but it's fun to have a go at it...

Some US sellers of the Tung Sol caution against using it in cathode follower applications, so I'm surprised that hasn't filtered through to the UK suppliers. In a typical cathode follower (whether of the AC or DC coupled type), the cathode will be at a lower voltage than the HT voltage, though still potentially high enough to cause issues. Anecdotally, the ones to avoid are Russian made valves with a spiral filament, most of which come from the same factory despite the different names on them. That leaves JJ from Slovakia, the Chinese manufacturers or older European or American valves.

I'm not too familar with the Mesa, but there is a known issue with some cathode follower circuits (not specifically in Mesa amps) where the voltage between the heater and cathode is higher than some 12ax7/ecc83 types can tolerate. The Tung Sol has a reputation for failing in cathode followers in other amps, as do most of the other current production Russian valves. It may be that if you can check the data sheets to find a 12ax7 with a higher maximum heater-cathode voltage than the Tung Sol you'll be OK, though buying from Mesa does at least save you the hassle of searching those out. The JJ ECC83s is one that has worked OK for me in the cathode follower position of another amp, FWIW.

I have a bitsa guitar with a strat shaped headstock which is blank. I've got so used to seeing headstock logos that it looks oddly incomplete with nothing there, but I think those jokey decals (Fecker et.al) are a bit naff and I don't want to stick my name on there since I only assembled it. I can see how that thought process could lead some people to stick a Fender decal on. It's often more about a familiar aesthetic than any attempt to deceive.

I like Fender type preamps too, they just have a different character going on from what I hear with a B15-esque 6sl7 preamp. Subjectively, my 6sl7 preamp has a nice thick, flattering quality (though not muddy) and isn't so edgy when pushed. I don't know if that's down to the difference between 12ax7 and 6sl7 valves, the Fender vs the James tone stack or whether it's the different approach to biasing - without taking the time to experiment, it could be any or all of those factors. It's a character that I liked immediately and don't hear in a lot of modern bass amps, though admittedly I haven't tried a lot outside of the mainstream stuff that you see everywhere. I do wonder whether some of the small-maker preamps and hybrid amps that get such enthusiastic reviews here and on Talkbass might also be going for that kind of sound.

I guess I'm suggesting that there are varieties of pleasing and recognisably "valvey" colouration that come from particular preamp topologies (in addition to the effects observed from the power amp) that could make them well worth using even without a valve power amp. The preamp I put into the Dynacord is a simple 6sl7 circuit based on the front end of an Ampeg B15n, and when pushed a little it produces a kind of distortion that barely even sounds dirty, but has a flattering thickening/sweetening effect along with some compression. It's a sound I'm particularly enjoying, and quite different to what I hear from Fender-ish valve preamps. And since I can directly compare it with a clean solid state preamp into the same power amp, I can be fairly sure that that colour is coming from the preamp in this case.

I'm struggling at the moment - the guitar player wants to do this, and it would sound a lot better if I sang the responses (the "Hey Pocky way" bit); [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEtXT9w9AYU[/media] It's not a hard bassline, and not a hard part to sing, but attempting to do the two together is doing my head in! I'm trying to figure out a methodical way of practicing it...

I'm not always as certain about the relative contribution of the preamp and power amp in valve amps. I have an old Dynacord Eminent II which has a transistor preamp and valve power stage, and to be quite honest it didn't sound all that special until I modified it by adding a valve preamp. That may be because the original preamp was made for vocal and keyboard use and wasn't very well voiced for bass, or it may be because the Dynacord power amp is designed to run clean (high plate voltage and lots of negative feedback) but it's a lot more musical and fun to play with the valve preamp. So while I agree that a valve power stage does contribute some unique and pleasing qualities, I wouldn't dismiss what a good valve preamp can do either. At some point I will try building the same preamp stage as a standalone box I can plug into other things, which might make for an interesting comparison.

Ooh, nice. I didn't know Carl Martin made amps - I'd only seen their pedals.

What value are the pots? If they're 500k or 1M, changing them to 250k will mellow things a little. A larger value tone capacitor could help too. This should be cheaper than changing pickups.

Did they not share UK distribution with Tokai for a while, or something like that? If shops were ordering them from a distributor with "Tokai" in the name, I can see how the name might become associated with them even if it tells us nothing about the manufacturer.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1491818773' post='3275528'] Not often someone makes me laugh in here but that tickles me. [/quote] Well, Dusty Hill did once describe his bass sound as "a rhino farting into a trash can"!

I picked up one of these recently. [url="http://www.rapidonline.com/uni-t-standard-digital-multimeter-tester-ut39c-85-4077"]http://www.rapidonline.com/uni-t-standard-digital-multimeter-tester-ut39c-85-4077[/url] It probably has more features than you need unless you're into pedal and amp DIY, but for guitar electronics it's useful to be able to measure capacitance, and the hold button is handy too. It's quite chunky feeling and seems sturdy enough.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1491339689' post='3272320'] We're a bit nerdy on here, but I don't think we're *that* nerdy. [/quote] Co-incidentally, I was reading about winding DIY inductors for the midrange EQ in an Ampeg style preamp earlier, so I'm not entirely sure about that...

14Kg seems very good for the two-way cab. The cabs I built last year came out at 14Kg each, and that was with the lighter Beta 12s, no tweeter and 12mm birch ply. [quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1491309555' post='3272002'] I'm still relatively inexperienced with all this (from a user point of view) so I'm quite keen to do a bit of experimentation to see how a different speaker would sound in the real world. I need to revisit the modelling to check but I did look at putting a Beta 12 in the Mk1 cab (partly to free up a Beyma for a Mk 2 build, and partly just for curiosity) which I think predicted a similar bump of 2 or 3dB around 110 Hz or so. Of course the Beta 12 does have a pretty big hump in the high mids, so overall I guess the sound would be substantially different. [/quote] After using them for a while, I like what the voicing of the Beta 12 does for my bass guitar sound, though they are almost certainly less versatile than the cab developed in this thread. What they are very good at is getting an instantly pleasing tone and and a satisfying amount of volume from my 80-watt valve amp that has only bass and treble EQ (an application which may be a bit of a niche interest). If I take one out with the double bass where I'm aiming for a more natural tone I find that I'm fighting that upper mid response a bit, and I suspect the Beyma two-way design would fare a lot better there.

Since you've already got the MB200, why not keep that and pick up a small, light cab? I have done this with a GK MB200 and a 1x10" cab (I had an EA Wizzy 10 for a few years, and currently have a home built 1x10" for that job). It sounds a lot better than most cheap small combos and the head and cab together fit in a padded cajon bag with a shoulder strap.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1491250436' post='3271625'] Does anyone know where to get it? [/quote] I've had it from Solsound on eBay - I think they refer to it as Marshall piping. You might find your grille frame is a tight fit with piping though - I made mine a few mm undersized to leave some clearance for it. The other thing that might look good is a thin metal angle trim around the edge of the grille. HH used to do that with a very similar grille material to yours.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1491231499' post='3271392'] I think carpet is easier to fit and also more forgiving than tolex, BoB. The lesson here is that you really have to finish off your screw holes properly or else they show through the paint. It looks like they managed to do without the inductor. [/quote] I think the hair and dirt attracting properties of carpet have always put me off. Too many memories of the drummer using my old Peavey as a rolling mat, or picking off hairs and thinking "Well, I [i]hope[/i] that's just a beard hair"!

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1491228308' post='3271352'] The grille works well but I think it needs some piping to finish it off. Perhaps carpet would be an easier finish than paint for the occasional builder. I wonder. [/quote] Speaking as an occasional builder, I did a pair of bass cabs in Tuff Cab and a guitar combo in tolex last year and found the Tuff Cab to be a lot less work. Though my bass cabs were in birch ply which should be harder and denser than the poplar used here - maybe that makes it easier to achieve a good surface? [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1491228824' post='3271359'] That's interesting, Shrek, thanks. I have to agree with Bill Fitz on this: manufacturers tend to be more interested in how a cab looks than how it performs. Love the crossover! [/quote] I can see a cap and resistor but no inductor - what's going on with that? Is that a piezo tweeter?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1490951829' post='3269289'] I'd say Flats are good for a Blues/Rock trio.That's what I use on my PJ5. I have 4 Jazz basses, 2 are strung with DR's and the other 2 are strung with Dunlop Super Brights. IME DR's are the best for tone and longevity. The initial outlay might be more but they sound better for longer so, in use, they aren't as expensive as at first glance. I used to make a set last for about 10 months. [/quote] I'd been using flatwounds (first Sadowsky and then Fender) - it's a good sound but since we started playing with a new drummer and the guitarist has been leaning in a more rockish direction, I've been thinking about changing things up a bit. An old bandmate (in the other band that I play guitar with) used to use DR Black Beauties and I quite liked the sound of those. Chris Wood from Medeski, Martin & Wood has a sound I like too, and he's also using Black Beauties. If they weren't so expensive, they'd be high up my list to check out. I guess that does mean that other coated nickel wounds could be worth checking out too. [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1490949993' post='3269258'] For me Rotosound Steel Rounds are king, I just can`t get the sound they have from any other make. That said the most comfortable rounds I`ve played have been D`Addario Pro Steels. They have a nice even tone tone to them as well. As you`ve mentioned Nickel the Roto Nickel Rounds are nice, and have a good balance between warm and punchy. [/quote] When I used to use roundwounds a few years ago they were usually steel Rotosounds - I was playing in a noisy band and I liked the clank I could get from them. I wouldn't mind something a touch less raspy feeling and clangy though, hence the desire to try some nickel wounds. I've got a pub gig tomorrow which I'll do with the steel Red Labels, and that should help me figure out whether I can get on with steels or not.

I enjoy him when I've heard him on 6 music, though does anyone else find there is quite a retro feel about his stuff? The performance above almost reminds me of something from one of the solo Stanley Clarke records like [i]Journey to Love, [/i]perhaps with a touch of Return to Forever about the keyboard solo. This is no bad thing of course, and he's taking that aesthetic to new places, it's just interesting to hear something new which draws on those particular sources.

Whether it's worthwhile depends on how cheap your bow is, since the cost of a rehair is about the same as the price of some of the cheaper bows out there.

Another Michael Henderson moment that gets me every time; at about 10:35 when things drop down after the guitar solo, it seems like time for a bass solo. But instead of noodling around in a flashy manner, Henderson plays with the groove in a taut, almost methodical way. Having a bassist from a soul and funk background rather than from the jazz scene really made an interesting change to how the band worked. Though being a sprawling jam with a somewhat dated narration tacked on, this is one that you have to be in the mood for! [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzM4_Lf_dSc"]http://youtu.be/GzM4_Lf_dSc[/url]