Belka

I've wondered about the authenticity of some vintage guitars for years. A skilled luthier who knows a lot about vintage guitars could pretty much fake anything, but I guess to make it worth the scammer's while they would stick to the really high dollar stuff like '50s Gibsons and pre-CBS Fender. Strangely enough, I would imagine it's easier to fake a '50s Les Paul than it would be to do a '60s Fender. Laminate (non slab) Brazilian rosewood necks would have to be done as one-offs and aside from Spitfire, it's almost impossible to come up with tortoiseshell that looks vintage. I guess that's more of an incentive to fake slab board custom colour Fenders with white/mint guards which would claim a higher price anyway.

This topic has been a massive pain for me over the last year. I moved back to the UK from Ukraine and had to take 4 basses with me. I took a few risks and was lucky but came to realise just how annoying this is if you have to travel regularly. The first two basses I put in a Mono M80. One was a neck through, one bolt on. I actually put the body of the bolt-on in my suitcase and the neck in the Mono, wrapped in clothes to keep it from hitting the other bass. I gate checked the Mono so it wasn’t under anything and everything was fine when I collected it at gatwick. I planned to gate check another bass but when I got to the gate it was too late and I had to carry it on with me and put it in a spare seat. Luckily I wasn’t made to pay for this. Finally with my last bolt on bass I put the body in the suitcase again and just had the neck in my carry on rucksack. It was sticking out but no one at the airport raised a fuss. Even though I consider myself lucky not to have had any damage to the basses, each time the process was stressful as you just can’t predict how staff at the airports are going to behave when they see a guitar case.

I agree with you there. I think the sunburst '60s Fenders with tort guards look the best. Personally I like the 66-72 models best, TV logos but still with tort before going to black in the early '70s. I actually though sonic blue was one of the more common custom colours. It was available all the way from 60-72, but will admit there don't seem to be many out there with matching headstocks, and I do see it more on P basses than Jazzes. Black seemed more common on '60s guitars than basses. I guess the really high prices would be for colours such as burgundy mist, Sherwood green, charcoal frost, all the silvers and golds, teal green, blue ice metallic, ocean turquoise metallic and shell pink. Those seem to be particularly rare. Olympic white, all of the reds, and lake placid blue seem to be the most common. I have heard (but have no concrete proof that it's true) that you could choose your own paint and ask Fender to do custom colours that weren't offered in the brochures, although you'd have to pay extra of course. Apparently there may be a Capri yellow Strat (built in '60s, not on of the international colours from 1980) and a metallic purple Mustang out there somewhere. I guess today though unless you could show evidence they came like that from the Fender factory people would assume they were refins.

Look, you know more about vintage instrument prices than I do, and you're obviously involved in the trade in some way, so I'm not going too debate this further. One thing you should remember however is that the vintage guitar market is a global one. In 2008 the pound was at the highest point it had been since the early '80s, trading at over 2 dollars to 1 pound. It has since crashed to well below that while the dollar has remained strong throughout the last 10 years. So actually, while prices in the UK may have doubled since 2008, the actual worth of the guitar has not really grown much at all. However, I will concede that in the context of the UK, if you have bought a guitar which has doubled in value, you've done a lot better than keeping that money in the bank. But to get back to the topic of the thread, after looking briefly at the basses currently for sale at Andy Baxter, Reverb, eBay, Vintage and Rare, Talkbass, the Jazz on sale for £23,000 is not 'on the high side' , it's way overpriced. I do agree with your earlier point however that if it is a sonic blue matching headstock near mint condition '60s bass you want, and you have the money for it, someone may pay near to that price. At the same time, however, the seller has to consider the fact that such a person may not come along for a good few years, if at all, while people who are prepared to pay a realistic price will be put off and not even bother bidding on it. Dave Markee's custom colour 1964 Jazz has been on sale in Vintage and Rare for years at less than half the price of this.

Sorry Rick, but I have to disagree with you there. Read what George Gruhn has to say about it: George Gruhn: I have been collecting and dealing fretted instruments since 1963 and have operated my shop since January 1970. During that time I have seen many twists and turns, peaks and valleys in the vintage and used instrument market as well as dramatic change in the market for new instruments. There have been times when prices were going up at a rapid rate and other periods in which they were plateaued and other times in which prices were falling due to a variety of factors. From 1959 through 1963 during the great folk music boom, prices of acoustic instruments were rapidly rising while prices of used and vintage electric guitars were very low due to general lack of demand. It should be borne in mind, however, although prices of acoustic instruments were rapidly rising, they were rising from extremely low prices to prices that were beginning to approach the equivalent cost of a new guitar. People were not paying super premium prices over and above the cost of a new one to get a vintage instrument. In the mid-1960s the folk boom was winding down, but the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and other rock bands hit, tremendously increasing the demand for guitars both acoustic and electric and many students on college campuses nationwide discovered the appeal of R&B music, and soon thereafter psychedelic rock. Prices of vintage electric guitars soared when some of the premier players discovered the merits of vintage guitars, resulting in rapid escalation of prices of pre-CBS Fender Telecasters and Stratocasters as well as original 1950s Les Paul Gibson models such that some of these instruments increased in value sufficiently that vintage examples were bringing more money than an equivalent new electric guitar in the case of Fenders. Since the single cutaway Gibson Les Paul Junior and Special models were discontinued in mid 1958, the sunburst Les Paul Standard at the end of 1960, and the black Les Paul triple pickup Custom in very early 1961, there was no equivalent new Gibson in the mid-to late 1960s, but original examples were bringing more money than most new Gibson electric guitars at that time. From 1969 through 1975, during the great folk rock era, rock ‘n roll money was injected into the acoustic market and acoustic and electric guitar prices escalated rapidly with many instruments costing significantly more money than a similar looking new example. Prices stagnated from 1966 through the mid-1980s and the fretted instrument music scene was at best lethargic. This was a very difficult time for music dealers due to the fact that the baby boomers had largely dropped out of the market and not yet reentered after their midlife crisis. Inflation was very high, and prime rate interest by 1981 was over 20%. This was an extremely tough time for musicians as well as musical instrument dealers. Market conditions turned around considerably in the mid-1980s when baby boomers re-entered the market and prices escalated significantly, although they slowed down from 1993 through 2002 due in part to the fact that during the so called “Dot-Com” era it was more profitable to put money in the stock market than into guitars. From mid-2002 through early 2007 prices of many vintage collectible fretted instruments escalated at an unprecedented pace such that prices of some of these instruments went up tenfold in a matter of 3 & 1/2 years. This pace was unsustainable and came to a crashing halt in late 2007. There are essentially three different types of buyers for fretted instruments: utility tool users, true collectors, and speculators. These are three very different types of buyers who have different goals and motivations. Utility tool users often are expert musicians, but they are not greatly concerned with age of an instrument or its total originality. Collectors are interested in having a coordinated collection with a theme and are very willing to pay more money than a utility tool user for the right item. Speculators frequently have more money than either utility tool users or collectors, but their ultimate goal is not to keep an instrument for more than two years before selling it. They target instruments which they feel are going up in value such that they can pay full current retail at the time of their purchase and sell at a profit after holding the instrument for a couple of years. When the economy hit the skids in late 2008, many musicians simply held onto their instruments, but many musicians who had no “rainy day cash fund” to help them get through hard times were forced to sell. Prices dropped dramatically such that after three years many instruments had fallen to less than half their price at the peak of the bubble in the beginning of 2007. The speculators had dropped out and to this day many have not returned to this market Recently, the market is showing some signs of revival, but many instruments still are bringing very significantly less today than they were a decade ago when the market was at its peak. I used to claim that I did not have a crystal ball to help me see where things were going, but I corrected that recently by purchasing a 10-inch crystal ball, which I now have on the small table in front of my desk. When I look through it, it is evident that the world is upside down since crystal balls act like a lens, which flips the image. In summary, prices at the moment appear to have stabilized, but many very fine rare vintage instruments are significantly harder to sell today than they were 20 years ago. What is evident, however, is that the true golden era instruments such as pre-World War II Martin and Gibson acoustics made during the 1930s and 1950s electric guitars by makers such as Gibson, Fender, and Gretsch are viewed by collectors as the most desirable and the best investments. Today the market is under stress due to changing demographics with aging baby boomers, millennials who do not share the boomers interest in vintage instruments, competition from eBay, Reverb, Craig’s list, and Amazon, a market flooded with highly discounted new instruments due to overproduction by manufacturers, and fierce competition from brick-and-mortar dealers as well as online sales. All my crystal ball tells me at the moment is the world has gone topsy-turvy upside down.

I guess your first point is subjective, so fine. But with all due respect, your point about neck-through vs. bolt-on is not accurate. The whole 'bolt-ons have more punch' and 'neck-throughs have more sustain' is a misconception that came about because Fender basses, with a scale length and positioning of pickups that gave them a lot of punch, happened to be bolt-on. Early neck-through basses, such as Rickenbackers, Alembics, and Gibson (ok, I know they're technically set-neck but some people might not get the difference) had very different electronics and in some cases scale length that didn't give that punchy Fender sound. The sustain thing probably came about because in the '70s early custom builders like Alembic, who typically made neck-throughs, also incorporated things like brass nuts, heavy brass bridges (Badass) and roundwound strings as standard. Where I do agree with you is that neck-throughs are not better than bolt-on, although equally, nor are they worse. Here, it's subjective again - there are different pluses/minuses of both. Bolt-on necks are easily replaceable. Neck-throughs typically give better access to the upper frets. People's needs/preferences here vary. For what it's worth Fodera did an experiment. They made basses identical in every respect apart from the neck joint. So, a bolt-on, a neck-through, and a set-neck. The differences in sound were so small as to make the type of neck joint almost irrelevant.

My experience with Fender Jazzes from the 1970s is that the 76-80 models, although the most likely to be boat anchors and have shoddy construction, actually sound a lot better than 70-75 models, but then again I really like the snappy Marcus Miller tone that only the 76-80 models provide. It might be to do with the weight but I think it's more likely to be a change of pickup done around this time - I think they went from alnico to ceramic magnets which really gave them that snap. If you're after rock/reggae/indie/soul tones however the 70-75s will do very well for you, I'm sure. I think it's the 70-75 models that look the best, with the big TV logo and the proper knobs (not strat knobs).

I actually much prefer the front mounted jack socket to side mounted. Having played a lot of Foderas however, I have noticed a few things that I think could be improved. Maybe some other Fodera owners will (dis)agree with me. 1. The Fodera bridge. It's solid and works well but if the grub screws holding up the saddles aren't at exactly equal height teh saddles will rattle - not had this with Hipshots, etc. 2. Very minor thing but the truss rod tool is quite thin. If the truss rod is a bit stiff the allen key/truss rod adjustment tool will flex quite a bit before the truss rod shifts and it makes turning it less precise. 3. Agree about the knobs. At the prices they charge and considering the otherwise flawless aesthetics of their basses, they could at least offer metal knobs matching the bridge/tuner finishes as standard. I think the layouts are fine though. 4. The Pope preamp, despite being very musical, is a bit noisy when compared to others (others in my case being the EMG preamp, Bartolini NTMB, MusicMan preamp). It's not a make or break thing but I think Mike should look into reducing the hiss coming out of it. Otherwise I can't really say anything negative about them.

Looks nice but that price is unrealistic. If it is all original with a straight neck and fully working electronics/truss rod it is probably worth more like £15,000. I honestly think vintage guitar prices from the '50s/60s have peaked. The top of the market was probably 2008, and now as the wealthy boomers slowly fade into history and subsequent generations take less interest in 50s-70s rock, combined with the inevitable de-magnetization of pickups that will eventually require replacement if they are ever going to be played, prices are likely to freeze and perhaps even come down. Don't get me wrong, they'll still be worth a lot, and some Gen Xers and Millennials are still likely to take an interest, but the interest (and finances) won't be there to keep prices going up. It seems to be the 1970s models which are rising in value still now. Some might say this is ludicrous due to the reputation for quality in the '70s, but I can see the appeal as they definitely look the part, and if you get a good one it is in no way inferior to a '60s model. To keep it in context however, most '70s Fender basses are still comparable in price to the cost of the new American models, and way cheaper than the custom shops, so you could say that over the course of the 45 odd years they've been out there they haven't really gained much value at all. 1980s models? Seems to be only Fullerton models and early Japanese Squiers commanding high value (and generally for a lower price than brand new American Original models). Despite the recent Guns 'n' Roses reunion and clamour around Appetite for Destruction as the best record of the '80s, Fender Jazz Bass Specials of the period are still only going for £450-600, and they're now 30 years old. If you go back to the '90s, the guitars/basses of the time that were 30 years old (made in early '60s) were already starting to get silly money paid for them. Yes, they were pre-CBS and that undoubtedly helped, but the nostalgia factor was also important. That goes to show that the nostalgia factor is just not really there for middle-aged people who were young back then. Anyway, rant over.

John Francis Anthony Pastorius?

I've used both the nickel and steel XLs on 5 and 6 string basses, 45-100 with the 130 B and 32 high C. I prefer the nickels, I really like the tension and tone. The steels are also interesting - they're extremely bright and they stay that way for a very long time, much longer than the nickels. They also have a much higher tension, which may or may not be a good thing.

I'm not sure as Foderas are normally fitted with Gotohs. The GB7 looks very similar to a Gotoh but it might not be an exact fit.

I've never seen it done before but if I was putting a ramp on a jazz bass I'd try to get it to match the pick guard. Not sure how you'd get the radius but I guess it could be done by getting a piece of wood with the right radius, and then gluing a piece of appropriate pick guard material onto that. I suppose you'd need a pretty strong glue to stop it coming apart under tension but if it could be done it would look great.

Also, regarding the jibe about lawyers, solicitors, CEOs etc... Myth. Instrument collectors may collect vintage Fenders and Gibsons ( and even then the majority of collectors are players or former players). I've never, ever come across a Fodera owner who was not a passable bass player.

And by the way, the top on the Monarch P is not holly, it's ivorywood. White, but not as white as holly.

I own one Fodera and have another one on order due in September. I like the idea of the Monarch P, and I agree with Si that if they have put the model out, then they clearly believe there is a demand for it, and it is likely among Fodera owners who want the P bass vibe rather than Fender players looking to upgrade. Despite my love of their basses however, I wouldn't buy it. Foderas appeal to me due to their effortless playability and the killer tone of the Duncan duals. I'll quite happily keep my Foderas for that reason but when I buy a P bass I won't be bothered about super low action or great woodwork. I like a P bass to have pretty high action, a thick neck and solid colours. If you play one of those for any extended time period the added finger strength you've gained ratchets the playability factor on the Foderas up another notch. Still, good they put it out as a choice for those who want that playability on a P bass.