Nicko

[quote name='Steve Woodcock' timestamp='1503230253' post='3356552'] TAB is a mechanical instruction rather than a musical one, i.e. 'put your finger here' rather than 'play this note, on this subdivision of this beat, for this duration'. It is a crutch, it may give you a short term gain but reliance on it will ultimately hinder your potential to be a well rounded musician. As has already been acknowledged, TAB does not contain all the information you need to perform the piece, meaning it needs to be viewed in conjunction with something else - i.e. either a recording or notation - therefore, as a means of communication it is flawed. Notation enables us to do the following:[list] [*]Perform a piece of music at sight, accurately and authentically, having never heard it before. [*]Read and write music intended for other instruments - '3rd fret on the A string' means nothing to a pianist, horn player etc. [*]Identify the key of the piece and the harmonic movement contained within [*]Discern the harmonic rhythm of the piece (the rate at which the chords change) [*]Recognise familiar melodic or rhythmic groupings of notes - the benefit of this is that these groups can be recognised as a 'whole', much like you are recognising the words in this sentence rather than reading each letter separately, and executed promptly from muscle memory [*]Quickly see the ascending and descending contour of a line, identify where things move by step or by leap etc., spot potentially tricky passages [*]Easily recognise sequences and other repeating patterns, even if they modulate to another key [*]Combined with a rudimentary ability to sight sing allows us hear the piece in our head, and therefore learn it away from our instrument [/list] By using notation rather than TAB, you are having to think [i]notes[/i] rather than simply positions - this will increase your knowledge of the fingerboard far more as you will make the association of 'this is an A, this is a C#, etc.' each time you play a note. More work in the short term but the rewards will pay dividends. True, this existed for keyboard instruments and lutes in the sixteenth century but it was found to be unsatisfactory and was replaced by notation for good reason; the systems used also differed from country to country. But here's the rub, TAB [i]doesn't[/i] help a player learn their instrument, it merely tells them where and in what order to put their fingers, it doesn't even teach them what the note is. In the same way as being told to move your Pawn from b4 to b5 in chess doesn't teach you anything about how to play the game, nor does painting by numbers teach you how to paint. To be clear, used in conjunction with another source (recording or notation) TAB may help someone learn to play a song, but they are not learning anything about the instrument. [/quote] I'm not sure that your post is 100% accurate. In some tab notation people include rhythm instructions and rest notes so that you know whether to play a quarter note or a whole note, and where in the bar to play it. A tab notation for guitar enables me to play the same notes on any instrument (provided I know how to constuct the note - so I can translate Tab onto keys, or trumpet but not sax because I don't know sax fingering. I can visually look at a tab and define the key from the notes. Just because the key is not defined in sharps and flats on the stave doesn't change the notes that belong to a key. The only exception would be where the standard notation uses a lot of sharps or flats in which case the key is pretty much irrelevant other than for the purposes of the notation. Tab, when written efficiently uses extensive use of repeat info - just not the same as formal notation. Learning tab is a quick and effective way of learning to transpose. If you know a Cmajor scale pattern, move it up two frets and you have Dmajor pattern. Its much easier to transpose in this way and quite frankly who cares if everyone knows the name of the note they transpose to as long as they know where it is and where it repeats on the fretboard? As was said previously, Learning the fretboard and your scales is additional to learning to read notation or tab. It really doesn't come from it. Did you really learn the major scale by looking at standard notation, by Do Re mi, or by tone, tone, semitone etc.?

P Bass, roundwounds. Volume backed off just a tad, tone full up. MXR graphic with a sad face. Littlemark blackline. 102P traveller. Fingers or pick depending on song, but I don't change any settings when I switch..

Rather than hijack the "where do I start" thread I thought I's start another on the specific subject of tablature. Some pretty strong opinions have been aired but I'm gonna say here and now I don't see anything wrong with using it. I know my scales, I know my chord tones, my ear could be better - I'm Ok at intervals but struggle with chord harmony. Many tabs on t'net are not 100% right, but I see a lot that are pretty close. I am a poor reader of dots, mainly cos I never bothered to learn past the basics and to be honest unless you're playing jazz standards or lounge music its hard to find sheet music. If I'm learning a new song whats wrong with picking up the tab, listening to the record and deciding if the tab is right or wrong? If I'm learning a song and there's no TAB, I can do it but it takes longer and the only way I'll retain it is by writing it down in TAB form anyway. I think this anti Tab thing is more a bassplayer issue. I've never heard a guitarist say that you should n't use a chord sheet.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1503050786' post='3355312'] When it started to get a bit chilly at night, I suppose. ...I'll get me coat. [/quote] beat me to it

[quote name='Stamford' timestamp='1503058751' post='3355377'] Has anyone got advise on how to stay loose when gigging? I'm having problems with my fingering hand when playing live. Clearly nerves are playing a part but even when I've relaxed my fingers become stiff and I lose speed in my fingering. The stiffness comes right up my forearm to my elbow. Any help would be much appreciated. [/quote] Theres a thread on here somewhere with exercises which help a lot. Damned if I can find it though.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1502982660' post='3354858'] Do you gig with your pre CBS? No, you don't, I would hazard a guess You'll leave it behind Even though you're inclined In your playing, to slowly regress Noob question! 3rd's 5th's 7th's 10th's? Just ignore them, but play to your strengths You'll be at your ease Without this Chinese Unless you go to great lengths Does anything sell on Basschat? Pretty much, at the drop of a hat It flies from the shelves Excepting the Elves That TE still have to work at To J Bass or not to J bass! This is neither the time nor the place Get the playing just right And, with luck, you might Find your present guitar is just ace Simple but perfectly formed To this subject my heart has been warmed It's not merely a whim I'll go out on a limb In suggesting that I've been brainstormed [/quote] Good stuff, but clearly you have too much time on your hands.

I use it in a few songs, mainly where the song is more bass driven. I use an EBS multicomp which does more than compression and TBH I really use it for the non compression aspects it gives..

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1502041579' post='3348920'] Threads like this reinforce my opinion that we should all learn how to do a basic set up. It's easy enough to do if one follows the guidelines, everything is reversable, there's loads of YT vids and a fantastic knowledge base here on BC. Most of us have (most) of the basic tools in the kitchen drawer while Allen keys, radius gauges and truss rod adjusters are cheap enough on the web. [/quote] Agreed. Adjusting my rod worries me slightly (gfaw gfaw) as does taking a file to my nuts.

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1502032564' post='3348853'] I've been playing for around 45 years and have never specifically learned chord tones. However I usually am able to identify what chords other band members are playing from my knowledge learnt from, probably in order:- 1) learning thousands of bass parts for songs ranging in complexity from very simple to reasonably complicated. 2) learning all the notes on the fretboard and how to play phrases in different positions 2) learning bass parts played by favourite bass players 3) learning solos played by favourite bass players 4) having a very broad musical taste and listening to a very wide range of music 5) learning scales 6) learning modes 7) learning argeggios 8) along the way figuring out diatonic harmony and playing double stops or three notes chords 9) along the way becoming accustomed to chord tones like 7th, 9th, 13th, diminished, half diminished etc I think there is quite a misnomer that the bass guitar is a subset of a 6 string guitar - this is as wrong as saying a double bass is a sub set of a cello or violin - apart from the physical similarities their function is quite different - in the case of guitar v bass guitar the only similarity is theyre strung instruments and can be held the same way - the music played on them is completely different, requiring a different mind set to play ensemble. I have been told several times during my playing years that bass players can't be any good unless they can play guitar - I'm afraid that's nonsense. Learning chord tones per se can broaden a bass player's ability - however I wouldn't see it as a pre requisite - it can be very helpful in jazz when comping with a piano player in the band as seeing/hearing their chords can help in choosing notes on the bass. If you're going to do things on the fly it's also v important to know the effect playing say a 3rd note against the root chord is - because it will colour the music in a certain way (used quite often in Abba - an example is Dancing Queen). Otherwise the bass will probably play the root note (the safe option). The octave you play that in will have a marked impact on the sound though. [/quote] I think you completely missed the point I made in the OP. All of the above theory is great and we should all know those things as well, but we all know the best sounds will be those that are in the chord (unless you as a bass player choose to alter the chord by augmenting it). I'm simply saying the best notes are easy to find by imagining the guitar chordbox on your fretboard. Finding a bass note to resolve a lick - irrespective of the song's key - is easier. When I'm talking about augmenting what I really mean is using your guitar knowledge to play bass better (eg if you know a sus4 chord will sound good, why not build a riif on the 3rd/4th, or if you think an add 9 chord works in that song play a 2nd etc)

I would love to play in an originals band, but trying to find one that wants to make music for the sake of it is pretty difficult. I only ever see delusional 20 somethings who reckon they can form a band, rehearse for a few months and start touring as soon as they have an albums worth of material up their sleeve. Obviously a multi album deal, fame fortune and women will follow shortly after. I'm nearly 50 years old FFS. All I want to do is express my musicality in some way. I have sufficient kit to record a few things at home, but a total lack of vocals and insufficient skill with drum machine to make anything which can be published. And meanwhile I'll play in a covers band cos I enjoy playing to people who might appreciate what we do. As said before - playing covers is actually a challenge because you have to learn something that suits someone else's technique, not your own. We might, at some point, try to create some proper songs of our own if the warm up jam ever gives us a wow moment.

As a converted 6 stringer I find making up bass lines against a particular chord sequence very natural. I already know the chord, and visualise the chord shape on the fretboard, giving me instant access to chord tones without having to worry too much about scales, keys or modes. I know the theory and can do it both ways, but a deeper knowledge of what your guitar player is doing on the fretboard is a good thing. I think the way to improve my playing on the bass is to play more rhythm guitar, learn more about chord extensions and relax in the knowledge that my chordwork is as good as the guitarists in the band. Thoughts?

I'm looking for an amp that good for bedroom practice that also has facility to use bluetooth 'phones in place of a traditional phones jack socket. Does such a thing exist.

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1501764298' post='3347217'] Saying pop simply means 'popular' (it's historical meaning I guess), completely invalidates the initial suggestion. There are SOOOOOO many bands/musicians as good as Level 42 technically (being the the example here) who also have good songs and are popular in their field. If you think there aren't, then you genuinely aren't looking hard enough and you should stop talking about it . If you're talking about Pop (capital P) as a genre then it's all about cycles isn't it, that said, it's all out the window now anyway. When Level 42 were in their heyday, you got in the charts by selling records, and people would only hear those records if you were on the radio or TV. Now it's also download sales and you can hear those songs via any thousands of methods on the internet. So comparing like-for-like is pointless. Sometimes they converge (i.e. major label money with actual good musicians), but not often, usually just individual artists who they think will sell a lot of units. Take Maroon 5 for example, they're all excellent musicians.....like really really good! But they write 'Pop' music, just because there's no slap bass or chorus effect on it....doesn't mean it's not as valid as Level 42 Si [/quote] You forgot to mention no one buys music simply for its technical artistry. If they did we would all have a full compliment of Pat Metheny and Stanley Clarke albums.

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1501848644' post='3347750'] I don't want to name and shame a pub who is now being run by, hopefully, a better landlord. The pub has a bad reputation as it is without me adding to it. [/quote] I thought it was the new manager who refused to pay. In that case you should name and shame.

How do you define pop music these days. Are Imagine Dragons, Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran, Rag n Bone Man pop?

Aside from the 4 hour set I dont understand why he would insist on at least 2 lead vocals i a 3 piece.

I saw him live in the late 90s and he hadn't really lost any of the magic, although he had to sit down for most of the set his playing and vocals were spot on.

Not really my bag, and he's got a massively overinflated ego. If you want classical mixed with rock you might want to check out Ozzy's first two solo albumns (Blizzard of Oz and Diary of a Madma)n - Randy was classically trained and he integrates classical lines into proper rock.

I find it inconcievable that a professional keys player who has the ability to sight read would lack the necessary theory knowledge that would enable them to both identify intervals and hence go "off dots", or improvise a line when given a chord progression. When I did my formal music traning this was an integral part of the course.

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1501108024' post='3342636'] Try before you buy is always the best option, especially if you're spending a lot of money. However, saying that, I have bought some great guitars online. All 3 of my basses were online purchases, as were both electrics. Only 1 acoustic (solid wood) was a shop bought guitar. Local shops should always be supported, but if you're after something different or a little bit special, then why not. Remember to get plenty of pictures, some detail off the vendor, and if anything doesn't feel "right", then walk away, something else will turn up soon. [/quote] I'm on the outskirts of London, and "local" guitar shops are few and far between in my area, but there's loads of choice in town. The item I'm looking at isn't stocked at many places and where it is stocked its expensive compared to ordering on line - only by 30 or 40 quid. Plenty of places I've been will set up the guitar to your liking at no extra when you buy.

I'e always avoided doing it because I've always been worried that the guitar will not be set up as well as one in a shop. Am I being stoopid? I'm quite happy to showroom to find the right guitar.

It takes all sorts I guess, but against the advice of other members my personal experience of trying to learn an instrument from a book is not good. Theres no substitue for proper tuition. I say this as someone who was self taught for years before taking some lessons. I learnt more in the 3 years of lessons than I had in 10 years of trying to do it myself.

Perhaps you should write a blues song about being misrepresented in surveys? Nobody loves me but my mother, and she could be jiving too.

When I was teaching I had a student called Wayne King. Fortunatey he was about 8 ft tall and about the same across. No one seemed to rip the p*ss.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1499337665' post='3330803'] Have you got a 'DFA' knob on your amp? [/quote] The line out.