BetaFunk

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1404818690' post='2495930'] Good thread. I was born in 59. It makes me laugh when folk reminisce about the 60s and then throw in examples of the 70s to illustrate the point. [/quote] The reason for that happening in this thread could be because out of the 20 tracks in the TV programme the thread is about 7 were released in the 70s.

[quote name='Harry' timestamp='1404804434' post='2495755'] I will say overall my selling/buying experience on here has been great and i use the site a lot in that way, i do get fed up of the really silly offers though, i mean if i have a bass up for £2200, why would i sell it to you for £1200 , if that is what i wanted i would have stuck it up for that in the first place [/quote] Just list it with a price and 'no offers'. Sorted.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1404809595' post='2495820'] Bob Babbitt on what happened regarding recording credits and payments (who played what). "War" is an interesting little mess.....lol.... [url="http://bobbabbitt.com/Bob_Babbitts_Site/Whos_Playing_Bass.html"]http://bobbabbitt.co...aying_Bass.html[/url] [/quote] That's a good article that i have read before and it 's a typical story of what happened at Motown and that's why i said in an earlier post that there is no definitive list of 'who played on what?'.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1404805446' post='2495766'] What people keep forgetting with Motown is that it was a much a factory as any of the car manufacturers who also populated the city. Berry Gordy was essentially the Simon Cowell of the 60s. He had a talent for spotting what would sell and marketing it appropriately and unsurprisingly some of the records have stood the test of time, but looking at the full Motown catalogue there's an lot of releases that are forgotten and quite rightly so because they were as just as much bland formulaic cash-ins as anything of a similar ilk todays (or from any other time in the intervening years). [/quote] I don't think people do forget that Motown was a factory as every book i've read or documentary i've seen mentions the production line methods of Motown as a major part of it's success. I agree that there was a lot of cash-ins and a lot of filler especially on LPs and also Motown artists recorded numerous versions of the same song time and time again just to fill space on albums. Here's two Detroit production lines in full flow........... http://youtu.be/17yfqxoSTFM

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1404805077' post='2495761'] I'm not a Motown boff, but I have spent a long time on these basslines and, I think, know a Jamerson when I hear it, so above are my suggestions of which are his. Of these I would grant Carol Kaye could have played on Papa Was A Rolling Stone, but none of the others. Would welcome any other suggestions. [/quote] In the book Standing In The Shadows Of Motown - The Life & Times Of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson by Dr Licks 'I'll Be There' is listed. You've obviously spent a lot of time on these basslines but wondered if you've played 'Darling Dear' by the Jackson 5. It's in Dr Licks book and is my favourite Motown bassline of all time. [media]http://youtu.be/076hAabSqN0[/media] This was on the 3rd Jackson 5 LP released in 1970.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1404769787' post='2495629'] Oh wait, you're serious [/quote] If you use less emoticons you may waste less time.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1404732729' post='2495108'] The critical and popular renaissance that Motown has enjoyed is similar to that of many bands from the 1970's, like ABBA , for example. At the height of their popularity they were derided by "serious" music fans and critics alike as trashy throwaway pop music, but nowadays they are revered by the very same people who hated them in those days as being great songsmiths and making timeless music of genuine quality . So much is a product of retrospect . Even bands like Led Zeppelin, despite selling a lot of records back in the 1970's, were never as widely celebrated or appreciated as they are now over thirty-odd years after their demiise. At the time, they were a cult act ( although it was a pretty big cult) . [/quote] I still think that ABBA are the height of naff and up there with ELO for kings (and queens) of bland. I always thought of them as an equal to Boney M. The passing years haven't made them sound any better to me. Led Zeppelin to me were grand old farts of rock in the 70s and so out of kilter of what was happening in music. A mantle that Queen admirably took over later. For anyone i knew around the music scene in the mid to late 70s Led Zeppelin were most definitely yesterday's heroes.

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1404753845' post='2495438'] There are other Jaco basses out there: [/quote] Yes, a simple internet images search would tell you that.

I don't bother buying or selling on BC anymore. Too many 'this is just a feeler...........' for me. Despite it's shortcomings i'll stick to eBay thanks.

I can never work out how anything can be going cheap before the auction has ended.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1404746039' post='2495327'] One thing about last night's documentary ... as always I hated the interjections from current stars barely out of nappies who can't possibly have known much about the subject, but I had one genuine LOL moment when a youngster right at the end described Marvin's [i][b]Grapevine [/b][/i]as a song that made you feel 20% cooler every time you listened to it. Nail --> Head. [/quote] Yes, that was indeed a gem.

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1404740816' post='2495245'] Here's the full list... 20. Jimmy Mack – Martha & The Vandellas – 1967 19. Uptight (Everything’s Alright) – Stevie Wonder – 1966 18. Papa Was A Rollin’ Stone - The Temptations – 1972 17. What’s Going On – Marvin Gaye -1971 16. My Cherie Amour – Stevie Wonder -1969 15. I Can’t Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch) – The Four Tops – 1965 14. My Guy – Mary Wells – 1964 13. The Tracks Of My Tears – Smokey Robinson & The Miracles – 1969 12. Reach Out I’ll Be There – The Four Tops – 1966 11. I Want You Back – The Jackson 5 – 1970 10. Stop! In The Name Of Love – The Supremes – 1965 9. War – Edwin Starr – 1970 8. Baby Love – The Supremes – 1964 7. I’ll Be There – The Jackson 5 – 1970 6. The Tears Of A Clown - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles – 1970 5. My Girl – The Temptations – 1964 4. Dancing In The Street - Martha & The Vandellas – 1964 3. Ain’t No Mountain High Enough – Diana Ross – 1970 2. What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted – Jimmy Ruffin – 1966 1. I Heard It Through The Grapevine – Marvin Gaye – 1969 I suspect a fair chunk of these feature James Jamerson - can the Motown bass boffs here provide a definitive list of those that definitely do (or don't?) [/quote] I've read a lot on 'who played on what?' but i don't think there is a definitive answer. If there is i haven't found it yet. Of the records listed Bob Babbitt always said he played on War and Tears Of A Clown while Carol Kaye is thought to have played I Can't Help Myself. Wilton Felder was also around at the time of the later recordings. I think it's fair to say that the majority were played by James Jamerson but who knows?

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1404741588' post='2495260'] I was initially startled to see that my first reaction to what'd be in the Top 20 Motown popular hits, Band of Gold by Freda Payne, wasn't on there. I've subsequently discovered that it technically wasn't a Motown record, despite being a Holland-Dozier-Holland song played by Mr Babbitt and the rest of the Funk Brothers... [/quote] The Holland-Dozier-Holland / Invictus Records story would be worth a book on it's own. Many Motown session players were moonlighting on Invictus, Hot Wax and Westbound sessions. I remember reading that Detroit guitarist Dennis Coffey saying that he didn't remember Jamerson playing on Hot Wax sessions although Bob Babbitt did play on a lot of those recordings. Many turned up on recordings by The Parliaments (later Parliament) on Revilot and Funkadelic recordings on Westbound. You can also hear the Motown influence on recording by The Flaming Embers, The Politicians, and numerous other Westbound, Invictus and Hot Wax records. By the time Band Of Gold was recorded Holland-Dozier-Holland had already left Motown a couple of years before. The song was also co-written by Ron Dunbar who worked with George Clinton for many years as a performer and producer and of course Clinton himself had worked at Motown mainly was a songwriter. One of the strangest Invictus signings was Ruth Copeland from Co Durham who was married to Motown producer Jeffrey Bowen who later became a producer for HDH at Invictus. Copeland had two albums released on Invictus in 1970 & 1971 and she also penned songs for George Clinton's Funkadelic & Parliament.

Thread from last year............ http://basschat.co.uk/topic/206036-jacos-jazz-bass-45000/page__p__2059654__hl__jaco's%20bass__fromsearch__1#entry2059654

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1404695897' post='2494816'] i think I'm out of my league when Geoff(Beta Funk) is involved. [/quote] Thanks Andrew but as i told you before it's just that i'm old and have been around a long time.

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1404292388' post='2491124'] This is one of the better offerings I've found so far - I'm wanting to expand my style bag, and have always felt that internalising by listening to the best sources is a good approach, but I'm woefully ignorant about traditional latin music, latin jazz fusion and whatnot, so was hoping for some guidance on artists/albums even online learning materials. [/quote] Now i understand what you are looking for and yes the term Latin Grooves is fine for the type of music you describe. The music on the cd is mainly Cuban Ritmo (rhythm) and Classic Salsa. Have a look for Cuban bands like Los Van Van, Los Papines, Los Karachi and Son 14 for a start. Happy hunting!

[quote name='norvegicusbass' timestamp='1404679973' post='2494704'] Not a huge fan of Motown but it's nice to see James Jamerson footage ( albeit brief ) and Wilton Felder playing an iconic bassline. [/quote] It was really great footage. It's hard to believe now but at the time that footage was shot i doubt if many people in the UK had heard of James Jamerson. When Marvin Gaye's What's Goin' On was released only the first copies had an insert with the musicians listed. Sidemen and session musicians just weren't seen as that important back then.

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404685666' post='2494775'] Believe it or not, I already know this, I've been bought up by my parents on Motown and Soul. However i like most music. Apart from the rubbish that is coming out these days that is labelled as "R'N'B" which subsequently is nothing like rhythm and blues and is ultimately rap. Unfortunately for the people who disagree, I'm allowed my own opinion. As is everyone else. Oh and it's not your place to dictate what I'm educated on and what I'm not after all, I'm only a personality behind random text over a forum about basses [/quote] I'm glad that you do know this but there is nothing like having first hand knowledge. I actually think that most of the music today is bland and uninspiring but that may well be to do with my age. The again a lot of music in the 60s was bland and uninspiring. Of course every one has their own opinion which is great I have been reading recently about Horatio Nelson and the Navy at the time and from that i can certainly get a good idea of what it was like from books and tv programmes but of course however much you read there is no substitute for being there.

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404683122' post='2494756'] Wasn't here, I was bought up on it though. From all I've listened to, it's better than the rubbish that's coming out these days. [/quote] As you said yourself you weren't there so let me explain from someone who was there. For a start you wouldn't have seen most of the Motown footage on British TV back then. Most music programmes were middle of the road to appeal to older audiences which to a teenager at the time were appalling. A weekly ration of Ready Steady Go was about as good as it got for the pop crazed teenager in the mid 60s. There was no official national radio station playing pop music during the day until 1967. Until then you had to rely on a weak signal (if available at all) from a pirate ship anchored somewhere off the coast of England. When they produce these TV programmes looking back you have to remember that they put in all the good bits while the rubbish (of which there was plenty) is left on the cutting room floor. I really enjoyed the 60s and i look back fondly on those days but they were far from perfect and that includes the music.

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404682197' post='2494736'] Point being whatever was crap back then is 1000 times better than what's put infront of people as "music" nowadays when it just relies on sex appeal to sell. [/quote] I was a teenager in the late 60s and don't see it like that at all. How old were you in the 1960s?

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1404680892' post='2494717'] Nice to see Jamerson on ITV and some great Motown Legends too. Back then you had to have something special to be on stage infront of people. ALOT different to nowadays, Nicki Minaj, Will.I.Am and all that type of crap! [/quote] I can assure you there was plenty of 'crap' both on stage and on TV back then. It wasn't all good by any means but they are unlikely to show the bad bits nowadays.

All of life is on ebay. I had a buyer once email me a dossier on how i [u]must[/u] pack a vinyl record including the size the package should be to what materials to use otherwise he would refuse to accept it and it would be returned to me and he would leave negative feedback etc etc. I've also had a buyer leave numerous voice messages on my phone every hour one day because i had not yet left him feedback for the item he received that same day. The item cost £2.99. It can be a strange place at times.

[quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1404666913' post='2494561'] eBay does auto relist unsold items. Just a thought. [/quote] Only if you choose the re-list option on ebays Selling Manager. If you don't use that option the item will not be re-listed automatically.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1404667418' post='2494570'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avRK8cIjSss[/media] [/quote] Now that's what i call Latin Groove!

http://youtu.be/xSbPXjqy4hM A Latin Groove played by a genius