The Jaywalker

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1474922072' post='3141583'] You're welcome! In fact, Bowie uses IV major, to IV minor to I major as a progression in the chorus of Space Oddity, if you want to know what it sounds like. In the line "you've really made the grade, the papers want to know whose shirts you wear", "grade" is an F maj, and "papers" is an F min chord. Classic songwriting. Actually having listened to the song, the interlude bit about "sitting on a tin can" with a Bbmaj7 sounds a bit like he's transitioning to F major a bit more permanently than just a single chord in passing (but the actual chords are slightly ambiguous between the two keys), but the idea of borrowing a chord from a closely related key is still exactly the same! Two other instances of non-diatonic chords (i.e. not belonging to C major): He also borrows a chord from another closely related key G major - a D7 chord which you can hear on "put your helmet on". It's a nice technique that gives a bit of movement. He also nicks an E7 from the relative minor of C major, A minor. Also in the chorus at the line "this is ground control to major tom, you've really made the grade", the major tom bit is an E7 chord. [/quote] The E7 moves to Amin and is therefore diatonic to Cmajor. It's harmonic function is V7 of VI - it's a Secondary Dominant chord.

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1474889173' post='3141226'] For improvising you can just play: C major pentatonic Bb lydian (i.e. with an E instead of an Eb), which is Fmajor from Bb to Bb. This is borrowing a chord from closely related key of F major. So it's sort of a IV-I in disguise! You could play F major pentatonic over it,or even C blues scale material. You see this a lot in jazz as Bb7 to C. In that case play Bb lydian dominant (i.e. mixolydian with an E instead of Eb). That scale is actually a mode of F melodic minor, so Bb7 to Cmajor is really Fminor is disguise! Fminor to Cmajor is IV minor to I major, used in lots of songs, including a ton of beatles tunes (e.g. in my life) [/quote] In the case of Bb7 to Cmaj (in the key of C); the Bb7 is a Special Function Dominant, i.e. a dominant chord which doesn't resolve using dominant motion. In a major key, these are I7, IV7 and bVII7.

Loads of DB's up here. Check out luthiers etc as well as the, admittedly few, specialist shops.

Do not pay anything approaching €7k for a hybrid bass. That's a ridiculous amount of money for an instrument like that. IMHO, they are way overpriced even in the US. Regardless of how good a hybrid bass is, it's still a hybrid and can't match a fully carved instrument - so the price shouldn't.

Make up a solution with Milton tablets. Great string and fingerboard cleaner and easily deals with rosin. Either use a lint free cloth or kitchen roll. Btw, rosin transferred from the bow onto your strings shouldn't be where you're RH pizz is happening. Pizz towards the end of the board; now lives between bridge and fingerboard ;-)

PDF files of walking bass books that you can read on your computer ;-) Working tonight and all tomorrow. I'll inbox you some stuff on Sunday

[quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1472829383' post='3124604'] Actually Jaywalker, if you would have included your last paragraph in your previous post I probably wouldn't have said anything. It's just that your post drew a comment from the OP about quitting, where the encouragement maybe wouldn't have. And you should know that all levels of input are welcomed on this forum be it pros, semi-pro, amateur... we want everyone to contribute. But, I felt your tone in the post was a little coarse and may have had the wrong affect. I guess that's my personal problem but I would hope as a teacher, you could recoginise when a little compassion is required and when blunt straight talking is needed. I hope I'm not out of line saying that, just an observation. [/quote] Yeah, my judgement came down on the blunt straight talking side ;-)

[quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1472820843' post='3124522'] No offense, but who's fact? If it's your's then it's opinion. If it's documented in literature then maybe that's fact and let's see it. Not having a go but I'd rather encourage new players and find some way to get them down their own path than set up "rules". * edited for crap spelling [/quote] Yes. You are having a go. I think it's rather well established that in order to function to any reasonable standard you need to put some work in on technique, theory, bass line construction etc. It's also rather well established that jazz double bass is not written in tab...and that there are a number of excellent resources out there for walking lines if one is willing to put a little effort into reading skills. Written musical notation has been the standard way of conveying musical ideas, concepts and pedagogy for a fair few centuries now...if you don't read, or don't want to learn, you're limiting the material which you are able to access. I don't think you'd hear any arguments on the above facts from any professional jazz musician - bassist or otherwise. That's not "rules": it's how it is. "...encourage new players and find a way to get them down their own path" As a teacher, some folk need guidance about their "own path" and whether that will lead to any kind of results. Listening to Ray Brown, Chuck Israels, Scott laFaro etc and hoping to "blag" this music without wanting to really learn technique or theory and with recourse to non-existent tab materials isn't going to help the OP. Implying that his own personal way of approaching an instrument, and style, he knows little about is as valid as anything else would be extremely unhelpful, if not unethical. A teacher who only tells students what they want to hear is no kind of teacher. At the end of the day, the OP asked a question about bass education. I answered. In my capacity as a pro musician and educator. Perhaps input from that level isn't welcome on forums.... Really, the message was simple - if you want to do this, you need to put the work in to at least some degree. There are no shortcuts or quick fixes to learning jazz double bass. BigYin, you might feel you've bitten off more than you can chew - certainly bigger mouthfuls than you were expecting. Don't give up straight away. Concentrate on the moment, on where you are now. Take things a little bit at a time and things will improve steadily. Honestly, it was like that for everybody when they started. Aaaand...if you feel like persevering with reading the dots, I've got a pile of PDF material which could find your inbox ;-)

There aren't any, I'm afraid. Tab doesn't exist for double bass. If you're thinking along the lines of copping lines via tab on electric bass and transferring them onto double bass then that simply won't work - the fingering and positioning systems are totally different. Not to mention that it would be a waste of time and energy: Tab tells you the rhythm, not the note name and reading notes is far simpler than reading rhythms or the 2 combined. NB, this is walking bass, so it's all quarter note rhythm anyway. Learn to read the notes; it's not that difficult. I'm assuming you don't have a problem with the names of notes on the bass neck? If you're going to learn anything about jazz/walking bass line construction there's a certain amount of work that needs to be put in, including theory and a bit of reading music. It's one of the main ways musicians communicate ideas and concepts, it's a language. That's not being a "purist" - that's just a statement of fact.

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aaaand...for all the bass part is extremely sloppy; the note choices are sound. There's nothing musically wrong with it. Could other choices have sounded better in context? Perhaps, yeah. In fact, undoubtedly in the context of a pop song. The issue as I see it is: - jazzers have it thrown in their face by non-jazzers both as a jazz tune and as an example of an awesome walking jazz line; when it's neither. This has bred a bit of resentment I guess. - rock bassists who are used to hearing diatonic motion between roots check out the line and their ears aren't used to chromatic approach notes (which have been a feature of western music for centuries - jazz didn't invent them) so they think wtf?! Sounds weird?! For my money, the g# to a is, whilst absolutely fine musically, misjudged in the pop song context.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1470575977' post='3106817'] All you've gotta do is stick a 7th and another number on a chord and it becomes jazz. It's easy really! Don't listen to all these jazz guys who want to make it seem like a mystery. They just want to seem intellectual and more talented than the rest of us! It's as easy Katy Perry songs! [/quote] Good-natured trolling aside; I've had the misfortune to meet not a few folk in my career who actually subscribe to that view. Sad.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1470291533' post='3104735'] And if you really want a project http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-Bass-Upright-Bass-/322215251580?hash=item4b05868e7c:g:0nsAAOSwdzVXoJwr [/quote] Gawd, gotta love bedroom idiots...fixing the faulty fingerboard so it's properly flat and adding a BG pickup... Reminds me of a gig-break conversation with a guitar teacher (allegedly) who'd been given a cello and wanted to thank the owner by posting a YouTube clip of him playing it. Six million dollar question was..."I want to tune it like a bass, should I use flatwound strings or would round wounds be ok?" Yup, wanted to stick bass guitar strings on it. Zero comprehension of why it wouldn't work on multiple levels. Sometimes one comes offstage straight into the Twilight Zone....

If it ends up being a good bass, it would be perfect for that stuff. Risky one though.... ;-)

Checked out the pics. That's definitely a plywood Selmer. It would originally have come with an aluminium, 3 legged bridge; which Selmer thought made the bass louder. They were essentially big, boomy boxes built for the dance band era. I was given one some years ago by an old dude who came to a gig and wanted to pass on his old bass (hadn't played for decades). It was solid enough, I guess, but REALLY basic. No tone to speak of, just a big box. Neck was a curious triangular shape as well, so rather uncomfortable to play. For my purposes, I couldn't use it as a backup bass so I passed it on to a swing/slap type player. It COULD be a solid enough bass if you spend way more than it'll eventually be worth fixing it up.... But I'd have to agree with other posters and advise you to look elsewhere.

The Thomann bass mounting clip is utterly unfit for purpose. I think they designed it on a 1/2 size bass or something. I bought a DPA bass mount - which cost almost as much as the Ovid.... In sax terms, my wife uses hers on sax with a noisy rock band and it works really well (engineer dependent, of course)

Another possible option if you want to dip your toe in the water - without the considerable outlay - is the dpa clone that Thomann offer; t-bone ovid. I bought one for myself and one for Mrs Jay to use on sax. It's about £40 and acquits itself really well. I've used mine to FOH in various club spaces and recently the main auditorium in GRCH. Feedback (tee-hee) from some really good sound engineers has been really positive. Sounds better than a high quality condenser placed in front of the bass on stage, for example. I'm told Thomann has some kind of tie-in/partnership agreement with DPA: so it's possible the Ovid system has some DPA design involvement. Sure, it's not as good as the 4099b; but it's nowhere near as far off as the price difference might suggest.

Also worth noting that the prevailing convention in writing bass music tends towards writing higher register/thumb position passages in treble clef to avoid prolonged ledger lines.

Aye, sometimes it's a lost cause with an unsuitable amp! A preamp with a bit of eq could be useful - depending on the "house" amp you can sometimes plug in through the effects loop, if there is one, and bypass the amp's preamp stage to get a sound. Sometimes works out. I reckon it would be helpful for you to look at things more holistically to get what you're aiming for. Remember, DB isn't like BG - you can't eq a sound in if that sound isn't there acoustically already. With that in mind, I'd firstly suggest ditching the Innovations. They're never going to give you any definition as such, as that's not really part of the Rockabilly/pretend gut sound those strings are aimed at. Strings are expensive, so check out eBay and the classifieds here etc! Spirocores are the obvious place to start, I guess. If you like old-school vibes then Velvet Blues, SuperSensitive (pro ones, not the cheaps) and Pirastro Obligato are all a good bet. Another crucial part of DB tone is in your RH and LH technique. Try placing your RH much closer to the end of the fingerboard and this will naturally add a bit more definition to the sound. Also, work on much more consistency with your RH and on using more arm-weight/less finger etc. Usual stuff. Consistent LH technique is really important to sound/tone as well. Try stopping the string hard with your LH; the sound will be focussed and bassy. All good. However, as you back off the LH pressure you can hear the sound open up and become more colourful and "growly", with more natural mids and definition. If you haven't tried doing this before, the difference can be startling. I guess the holistic point I'm making is that if we can optimise as much as possible the sound we create acoustically; then we can improve our chances when we plug in to unfamiliar or less than suitable amplification. Hopefully...

Yeah, using the "house" gear can be a complete pain. Electric bass amps are rarely unbiased in their tone reproduction, even when flat. Important to remember that eq' ing DB is usually a process of subtraction, ie start flat and take off what's not there in your sound. Boosting mids could indicate that you might be looking at a different string choice? If you are having issues with a lack of definition in the lower register, then back off the low end. DB's produce so many overtones that your bass won't be producing much below 80hz on your low E - there will be a small amount of 40hz (low E fundamental), a slightly larger spike at 60hz but the frequency response starts proper at 80hz. Any bass response from the amp is mostly going to add mud which isn't really there in the natural sound. Try it next time you're in a rehearsal room etc - and take a long lead. If it sounds like there's not enough bass under your ear, then head about 3-4m away from the amp, roughly where the bass wave curves back in and meets the higher frequencies. Chances are it'll sound just fine!

What kind of sound/tone are you looking for in your playing? is your amp on the floor or on a chair/stand when you play? How do you generally eq?

FWIW, I've had a '74 Jazz, extended usage of a friend's '75 jazz. I've also played a bunch of new Fenders. IMO the Levinson Blade tetra standard (their budget model) I bought recently beats them all for build quality, sound, tone, playability etc Of the new Fenders I've played, all bar one were utter crap for something with a Fender label and price tag. Don't get me started on the "roadworn" "premium" "custom shop" nonsense: a huge price tag for an instrument of the basic quality they should be putting out anyway!

Exactly!