The Jaywalker

Thing to remember is that DB doesn't produce a big fundamental - when you play the open E string there's a very small amount of 40Hz; a slightly larger spike around 60Hz and 80Hz is by far the biggest low frequency spike. Bass waves move through the air differently from treble frequencies so what could feel like a lack of bottom end on stage is actually perfect for you around 3m in front of the amp and beyond. My (limited) understanding is that magnetic p/ups operate differently from piezos (which are mainly based on overtone response) and mags will amplify the full 40Hz of a bass guitar. I would assume that might mean a mag on DB might pick up more of the lower 40/60Hz fundamentals than a piezo - and why the 1x 18 sub worked for StingrayPete. I've tried working with a sub (Schertler pub 380) and all I got was mush!

Other option is to use the Spiro Mittel S42 set. As it's 4/4 scale, if you put them on a 3/4 the tension is noticably lower. On my bass its kinda halfway between weich and mittel.

What you'll also noticefrom interviews etc, is that Ray used to get pretty mad with folks who looked at his early playing as "definitive" and put it on a pedestal. He was really against the "Guts-high action-play hard-acoustic is best" stuff. Bassists didnt have a choice back then, that's all.

Definitely persevere with the "classical" lessons. It's a real slog at times but it's worth it! Good technique, posture, balance and use of arm weight etc is transferable to everything else you do on the bass.

You could get this visual effect to a degree by playing your bass in front of an untuned TV set showing "snow" (remember that...?!). Arild Andersen used to practice in front of a similar effect from an old projector screen to fine tune his vibrato for increased sustain.

Hi guys, I'm down in Wakefield Jazz Club with NYC pianist John Colianni this Friday night (5th Sept). John's a monster player! I've been working with him for 2 or 3 years now when he's over. Scottish dates have been great so far, so should be a good gig if anyone's at a loose end for something to do. Make sure you say hi if you drop by. jay

One of the best things you can do for your walking lines is learn concepts. Learn about triads and upper/lower chromatic approach notes as a basic start. Then compose lines either on the bass, or write them out and play them later. Keep what you like, discard what you don't. Find a concept for 2 or more bars of one chord, eg, bar 1 starts with a root and bar 2 with 5th. Figure out some possibilities with roots and other chord tones. Work out or compose lines, keep what you like etc etc. You can revisit each concept in a more advanced way as time progresses eg, figuring out strong lines which don't have a root on beat 1 but which still outline the "sound"; using chromatic approaches to other chord tones on beat 1 or inside the bar etc etc. Eventually you can expand your repertoire to the point where you can play a line through changes, using various concepts, that continually ascends, continually descends, is repeatedly heavily chromatic followed by an interval leap etc etc A great way to augment this idea of learning walking concepts is to transcribe and analyse lines. Also, there's been no mention of Ron Carter on this thread so far - absolute walking master! Get hold of his transcribed Aebersold basslines and analyse the hell out of them. If you do this alongside conceptual study, you'll discover that you're using the same formulae/concepts as the Masters. It's a good feeling to cast your eyes over a transcription and see one of your "own" lines!

Yeah, the dexterity debate is a pita to be sure ;-) Guts is best for the '50's gut vibe (go figure!). There's a great interview where Carlos Henriquez calls out the guys who are trying to do it on high action steel strings; something like "if you wanna do it, you gotta do it!"

Tried loads over the years, after starting on spiros. Velvet Garbo - great old school sound and a thunderous A string on my bass. Too cumbersome to get around on for me, ultimately. Tend to have a really distinct sound of their own, which maybe isnt so good, dunno... Anima - brighter, more focussed gutty sound and really good playablilty. Sustain/decay was perfect for old-school ballads. Blues - were phenomenal for about a fortnight, then they dulled into cheap Animas. Labella 7720 - similar to spiros but I found them unpleasantly brighter and the tension wasnt as playable Labella 7710 - high tension on my bass. Felt like there was too much indistinct low end and brittle highs I'm back on Spiros now. I was using a standard Mittel set on my 3/4; but then used the S42 4/4 set which gave me a better growl/sustain and lowered the tension a bit. Bass seemed a bit freer with them on. Recently, I was able to organise a lesson with Arild Andersen and play his recently-acquired Auray bass (stunning instrument!). Jean Auray had suggested he switch from mittels to weichs/mittel G, which felt and sounded great on his bass. I tried the same setup and it suits my bass really well. Sound is open and free - the bass likes it so this seems to have mitigated the lower string mass in tonal terms. Also, the tension of weichs is just sooo nice to play on. I clean them regularly to keep them bright, and once in a while take the tension off. Retuning gies them another lease of life and the bass likes it too. I'm into lyrical sustain, so naturally this setup works well for me. Lots of varied and identifiable tones from masters who use spiros though - Ray Brown and Marc Johnson spring to mind. i guess they're not the benchmark for nothing!

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1407191082' post='2518314'] That's definitely on the low side of things, but to be quite honest when I've heard you play I wouldn't have guessed it from your tone. It's certainly not that "exaggerated growl and lots of amp" kind of sound that was fashionable in the 70s. I've had mine a little below 6mm on the G when I had Spiro Mittels on, but for whatever reason I like my current Spiro Weichs a little higher at 8-10.5mm. [/quote] Yeah, Mittels tend to tighten up quite a bit as the action goes up; but the Weichs still sing. I think it's easier to change the action to alter the tone/feel with the weichs too - like from sustained ECM to a slightly shorter, bouncier Ray Brown vibe. Some basses like the freer vibration from the lighter tension as well, which can be a nice surprise.

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1407194064' post='2518336'] I slap 70% of the time and I play guts. Even when playing pizz I am used to my high action. I could not slap and play with the physicality I like with a 5mm action: it would actually be physically impossible with my size of fingers to get under the strings and pull them up to produce the slap. Volume is also important to me and a low action does sacrifice it. Instrument setup is subjective, I am only offering my experience politely. I am truly sorry if that would have made Ray Brown angry, but I think I will survive the disappointment. [/quote] Yeah, exactly. If you play slap then you have no option but to go higher; and guts can need way more room to vibrate depending on the guage. I appreciate you're only offering your own subjective setup preference and experience - i got that from your post - I was just picking up on a couple of things: the "fast and flash" quip (I find it strange that we bassists can be accused of that all too readily when all we're doing is playing 8th note lines like the rest of the band; instead of being expected to rumble around like it's still 1950! - which is cool, if that's your thing! ); and the myth that the "ability to swing" is somehow related to a higher action. A "modern", even lower action setup is way more versatile than you seemed to be suggesting - and won't limit you in any way other than not being able to slap. As you said; fingers have the scope to control the sound I used guts/Velvets with (obv) a higher action for quite a while and it was a great sound - just not versatile enough for my own personal artistic tastes. If I had multiple basses i'd probably still keep one setup like that for the odd real old-school gig.

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1406228036' post='2509615'] Just to play devils advocate here. Fast playing and low action may be great for speed and fingertips, but it may sacrifice a bit on volume, tone and the ability to swing. I play with a rather high action 13-16mm and gut strings. I can't do fast and flash with my setup, but I will be heard on the moon, amp or not. This power actually helps me swing, allows me to slap and leaves me no shortage of gigs. If I don't need to be loud, I can just play softer, the fingers have the scope to control your sound. All I'm saying is that it may come the time when you get a gig which requires these characteristics and having a very low action will preclude you from it. In short, as very well advised above, at least get yourself some good adjusters which leave you a good bit of room at either end of a "standard" action. Hopefully I have made some sense. [/quote] Yeah, adjusters are the way. Means you can go from high to low depending on string preferences and what you, and your bass, end up liking best. However, it's nowhere near as simple as not being able to get certain sounds with a lower action. That's just just plain wrong. Ray Brown had his bass set to about 5mm at times - and still played the way he always did. In fact, when anyone tried to pull the "gut strings and high action" stuff with him he'd get really angry about it. Plenty of anecdotes on the 'net. Like almost all the guys from that era, he maintained that if that was better, they'd still be playing that way. I've heard bassists at polar opposite ends of the sonic scale, eg Arild Andersen and a US Grenadier acolyte (who assured me with pride that his action was "much higher") play my bass and get "their" sound with no difficulty. My action is 4mm on the g-side up to about 9mm on the e. Turns out it's almost identical to Arild's setup - and no-one can accuse him of having a small or weak tone! String height doesn't affect tone as much as volume. There's usually a fairly narrow window of a few mm where the tonal differences, sustain, brilliance etc are quite stark. A good sound is full and rich - "big" if you will, regardless of how loud it is. If you don't feel you need to play unamplified, then the acoustic volume of your bass is a non-issue. Concentrate on the sound and tone! If it's guts and a higher action which gets you there; fair enough - but it's absolutely possible to do the old school thing with a modern setup. Here's a wee personal anecdote. The above-mentioned Grenadier acolyte used my bass on a gig. He played every note as hard as he possibly could, killing the sound dead by choking the natural vibration of the instrument. He would ask the leader before each tune what the vibe was and adjust amp volume accordingly...In other words, he'd taken the high-action acoustic concept so far that he had no control over his sound and, ironically, was totally reliant on the amp.

Despite what all the amp manufacturers say; amplifying the bass is always a compromise to some degree. To a great extent you have to "play the speaker" as well. I'm not much of a fan of GK combos either - but have heard a good "traditional" sound with a Realist (which I don't like) through one of the tiny GK heads and a separate non-GK cab (not to be too specific or anything.....). Try as many different setups as you can - not always practical, I know. Also, bear in mind that what the amp sounds like under your ear is extremely deceptive. Speakers shoot high(er) frequencies straight out and bass frequencies curve out then back in; joining the higher frequencies approx 3m in front of the speaker. Ergo, lots of bass sounds good under your ear, but boomy and indistinct to the audience. With the lows backed off, things arent so pleasing closeup, but with a long lead you can check to hear what's actually projecting into the room. Another important point. Our low 'E' may be 40-41hz, but the bass generates so many overtones that when you play that 'E' there's actually not much happening below 60-80hz. Most double bass pickups work mostly on these overtones, so, counter-intuitively, we usually need less bass response, rather than more to get a clearer, more representative sound. Magnetic pickups (eg on electric bass) will pick up the fundamental down to 40hz, or 30 for low 'B'

The other option - which I would recommend - is to get adjusters fitted as well. If you're still experimenting with what setup you like/string choices etc, then it'll save a trip to the luthier to get more taken off if you want to go lower...and be cheaper than a new bridge if you want to go higher ;-)