TKenrick

As others have already said, total immersion through listening to/analysing/playing odd meter music is the only way to make it feel comfortable. There are a few books on odd time playing, but they're only of real use if you want to get into reading odd time stuff as opposed to being able to groove. This one is fairly dull but if you can work through it then you'll certainly be able to handle almost anything: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Odd-Time-Reading-Text-Instruments/dp/0769233724/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283705029&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Odd-Time-Reading-T...5029&sr=1-1[/url] Personally, I prefer to use songs as a way of getting used to playing in meters other than 4/4, here's a few to start off: Foo Fighters - Times Like These (7/4) Incubus - Nice To Know You (Intro alternates between 6/4 and 4/4) Jeff Beck - Led Boots ('B' section is in 7/4) Oceansize - Catalyst (Intro 7/4, verse alternates between 6/8 and 4/4) Sting - Love Is Stronger Than Justice (7/8), Seven Days (5/4), Saint Augustine in Hell (7/8) Tool - The Grudge (5/4), Vicarious (Mostly in 5/4) I found that learning to count meters out loud while playing made things a whole lot easier, but it took me a long time to be able to separate my mouth/foot from what I was playing. Another thing to try is finding drummers who are comfortable in odd meters and find out how they break them down.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='942485' date='Sep 1 2010, 07:02 PM']Are there any other bass teachers on here that have noticed a decline?[/quote] I haven't really noticed a decline, more a lack of interest/awareness to begin with. The unfortunate situation is that kids who take an interest in being in a band and don't want to play drums (or whose parents want an instrument with a volume control) will generally take up the guitar. Most of my teaching involves peripatetic teaching in schools, and 99% of the time the resident guitar teacher will take on the few kids who want to learn bass - it saves the school hiring more staff, and most people don't understand what's wrong with a guitarist teaching bass... Having said that, I'm in a fortunate position of working in a school where they do understand that guitar and bass are entirely different instruments. The demand for lessons is still small relative to other instruments - I have 1 full day of teaching, the guitar and drum teachers have at least 3 days each. I think the fundamental problem is that the majority of people aren't really aware of what bass [i]is[/i] and the role it performs in a band situation. I've lost count of the number of times I've been met with a puzzled expression after answering the question 'what instrument do you play?'

[quote name='Faithless' post='938913' date='Aug 28 2010, 05:45 PM']Man, that looks like a lot of money for a piece of wood..[/quote] Yeah, the ramp is worth about half the value of the bass itself... I wasn't sure if I'd take to the ramp so had it fitted to a cheap bass that I never gig with (I had the bass set up in E-C tuning for the same reason) I have to say that I don't miss having a ramp when I'm doing a gig with a 4-string (which is 99% of the time) but I find it makes 5 string basses easier to navigate for my right hand.

[quote name='chris_b' post='938566' date='Aug 28 2010, 01:32 AM']Why don't people just play lighter?[/quote] The benefit of the ramp for me is not that it makes me play lighter, but reduces the distance that my fingers move 'through' the string once I've played a note. I got used to playing 'into' the pickup and wanted that feeling regardless of where my right hand is positioned. Personally I'm not a fan of the Gary Willis string tickling approach - I feel like i get a stronger tone from using slightly more attack rather than playing lightly and trying to get my tone from the amp. Each to their own though, Willis is a phenomenal player. Anyway, I got an ebony ramp fitted to my Squier by Martin at the Gallery. I think it was about £80

[quote name='michael-faces' post='923446' date='Aug 13 2010, 05:30 AM']-------------------------------1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2----------------------------------------------- ---------------------1-2-3-4---------------------5-4-3-2-------------------------------------- -----------1-2-3-4----------------------------------------5-4-3-2------------------- 3--- -1-2-3-4------------------------------------------------------------5-4-3-2-3-4-5-6---- Exercises like that are amazing for technique. Just go up and down the neck playing to a metronome and you'll see the effects. You can also make variants of the exercise to make it more difficult.[/quote] These are great for building technique, but don't do them from the 1st fret! I'll let Dave explain:

A great odd-meter pop tune - not too many of those around...

Here's some I made earlier... [attachment=57242:Thriller.pdf] [attachment=57243:Billie_Jean.pdf]

Glad to see this thread is still ticking over... Recently done: Bob Berg's solo on 'Snakes' Herbie Hancock/Freddie Hubbard's solos on 'Cantaloupe Island' Bob Mintzer's solo on 'The Chicken' Ray Brown on Oscar Peterson's 'Night Train' Currently working on a Janek Gwizdala solo on Song For Bilbao and a bunch of Pino stuff from D'Angelo Live in Stockholm - and yes Faithless, he's a nightmare to transcribe!

Nice work! Shame I don't have the chops to play any of them...

I did this a while back, hopefully it shouldn't be too far off! [attachment=55891:I_Predict_a_Riot.pdf]

[quote name='JPS' post='912988' date='Aug 2 2010, 05:05 PM']My question is how do you get a 15 year old interested in learning and understanding theory and reading is they are not really motivated by these areas?[/quote] I face this problem every week - I teach in a school and refuse to use TAB, so all my students read. I was lucky that most started as total beginners so hadn't got used to learning any other way, but even the ones that I had to wean off TAB eventually realised that there wasn't an alternative and got more engaged with reading. The initial problem was I couldn't find lot of good sight reading material that was both relevant to the students and appropriate for their ability level, so I had to generate my own through transcribing lots of rock/pop stuff. I try and put everything in context, so if I'm teaching about major triads i'll try and find some example of a bass line by a band that the student is interested in that contains that particular idea. Another way that seems to work for getting students engaged with the application of theory is to get them to create bass lines using theoretical concepts as a starting point, e.g. "Play a bass line using that works over Am7 using only chord tones" which (hopefully) helps them see how theory can be useful in making unfamiliar music more manageable.

Here's a transcription of Justin Chancellor's part on 'Vicarious' from Tool's [i]10,000 Days[/i] Not much going on in terms of harmony (which is why I haven't included chord symbols) but there are plenty of interesting rhythmic ideas. The verse/bridge grooves also serve as a good exercise in playing in 5/4 that isn't Take Five. There are a few bits that proved problematic when it came to writing down the part. Rather than write the intro in 10/4 I've divided it into bars of 6 and 4 for (slightly) easier reading, and the chorus is written in 6/4 although the drums imply 12/8. [attachment=55446:Vicarious.pdf] As always, questions/comments/corrections/requests are more than welcome. Tom

As I see it, you have two options to begin with: 1. Get hold of this. I'm aware it's not the most exciting thing in the world but it'll certainly solve any issues you have with syncopation: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Reading-Text-All-Instruments/dp/0769233775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280318533&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Reading-Tex...8533&sr=8-1[/url] 2. Transcribe things that you find rhythmically interesting and use those ideas in creating your own basslines. Not necessarily a suggestion, but certainly fairly syncopated:

I was thinking of sending it by courier as I don't trust other means of postage, even with an inexpensive instrument like this. Whereabouts are you based? I'll be around Worcestershire for a few days next week if that happens to be close enough for you to drive, otherwise i'll investigate courier/postage options if you're still interested. Tom

Ovation-style acoustic guitar (bolt-on neck, plastic body, wooden top) Originally bought off ebay for about £60, excellent condition owing to having hardly been played. Has issues staying in tune, hence why I'm giving it away. I suspect that tuning/intonation issues could be solved with a decent setup by someone who knows what they're doing, but as I don't really play guitar any more I can't justify holding on to it and would much rather it goes to someone who'll use it. I'm based in Chiswick (just off M4 junction 2), collection preferred but will consider posting if necessary. [attachment=54926:IMGP3734.JPG]

[quote name='funkle' post='900368' date='Jul 20 2010, 07:03 PM']Great stuff on your website BTW. subscribed![/quote] Glad you like it! I've been rubbish at regularly updating it but should get some new stuff on there this week. I've attached my version of the solo (in treble clef), which appears to be similar to yours apart from a couple of rhythmic things [attachment=54705:All_The_...Desmond_.pdf]

This is a great solo - lots of nice melodic sequences and some interesting phrasing, thanks for posting. Oddly enough I transcribed this last week so it's nice to see someone else's version for comparison!

[quote name='shiekaa' post='899281' date='Jul 19 2010, 07:08 PM']At the end of the day, you don't NEED music theory, you will know what sounds good by ear and intuition if you practice enough. I don't think people should knock TAB so much, it gets alot of people starting out to play bass who will one day become great bass players, not everyone can afford a tutor.[/quote] I completely agree that you don't [i]need[/i] theory to play bass (or any instrument, for that matter). There are plenty of fantastic bass players who haven't studied theory and play brilliant lines - at the end of the day it has to be about what sounds good. I wouldn't be able to survive as a working bass player/teacher without an understanding of how music works, but I understand that many people for whom music isn't a full time job don't need to learn theory in order to play. On the subject of TAB, I used it exclusively when learning to play, so I totally understand the perceived benefits of the system. It provides a quick-fix solution to learning music and in some situations is useful for showing specific fingerings. I didn't learn to read until I got to music college, and after an initial struggle I found that it made much more sense than TAB. I find that being able to read dots opens up a whole lot of musical possibilities, and allows me to access and digest new music quickly. As with theory I understand that you don't need to read to be a great player, but in my experience I find that TAB tends to restrict peoples' musical understanding. Again, I wouldn't be able to do the work I do without reading as TAB doesn't exist in the 'real' world (at least, I've never done a gig/show/rehearsal where it's appeared). I understand that people can't always afford lessons, but thankfully the internet provides a wealth of free resources for people who want to learn about music - there are plenty of sites that explain musical notation at no cost. I host a blog of bass transcriptions that I use for teaching (the link is in my sig) as I found that there was a distinct lack of notated rock/pop reading material elsewhere on the net. All of this is just opinion, so feel free to disregard it entirely. Tom

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='898878' date='Jul 19 2010, 01:12 PM']Don't worry, you can make money by teaching other unsuspecting and aspiring musicians what they don't need to know. [/quote] I'm sure my students won't be surprised to hear that everything I've taught them is irrelevant Maybe I should just print off some TABs and teach them Chili Peppers songs. That would be a valid waste of my time and their money, surely?

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='898306' date='Jul 18 2010, 07:21 PM']Rules of harmony? None.[/quote] I wish someone had told me about this [i]before[/i] I'd invested considerable time and effort studying music I don't quite know whether to laugh, cry or spend my next gig playing b9s on every major chord.

My advice would be to get a teacher to help you through things - the rudiments of music theory are pretty straightforward but making sense of it all in relation to your bass playing can be trickier. I'd suggest learning to read basic notation in both bass and treble clefs - not being able to read won't prevent you from understanding theory but it will limit your ability to access new information. Even without a teacher there are plenty of things you can work on. I'd suggest starting with working on your fretboard knowledge (can you quickly find 6 places on the neck to play F#?) as really knowing where the notes are on your instrument is something that a lot of bass players (and guitarists...) lack. On a separate note, I'm going to add a big +1 to steviedee's mention of the Simandl book. Even though it's a double bass method book I've been using it on electric for the past few years and can't recommend it enough as a means of getting a logical fingering system together and developing solid technique. I went through Rockschool grades as a teenager and use them with students. They're fine as a means of having a recognisable measure of your level of ability but don't actually [i]mean[/i] that much in real terms - it's possible to get Grade 8 with distinction and still not really understand what you're doing on the instrument. Tom

Have you tried The Grove in White City? [url="http://www.musicspace.co.uk/"]http://www.musicspace.co.uk/[/url]

Great work, some really nice stuff there. I've done a few Muse transcriptions but yours look like they're far more detailed! I'm always on the lookout for 'current' sight reading material for students so these should be useful. One small thing (and this is totally down to my personal preference for reading charts) is that some things could be condensed by the use of repeats - particularly in verses where there's a line played several times without variation.

If you click the link in my sig then there's a few transcriptions that might be of use to you - most of it is stuff I use to teach students to read so falls into the 'easy pop' category. Tom