BigBeefChief

I never play a song all the way through unless playing with by band. Get bored or shouted at.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='480086' date='May 5 2009, 04:55 PM']So, sorry BBC -- learning to read music doesn't propel you down the whitewater rapids of the river to jazz-w**k noodlery and appreciating how "clever" things are. It's music theory that does that! [/quote] Don't get me wrong, learning too much theory (and I include learning to read in this) sends you down a path of jazz-w***ery. However, if you want to make money out of playing bass, the most likely avenue is session work. I've never disagreed that learning to read is great for a session musician. However, a side-effect will be a hideously self-indulgent originals side project churning out jazz muzak. Personally, I have no desire to be a session musician, but if that's your bag, then learn to site read.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='480047' date='May 5 2009, 04:20 PM']One other point to debate: the value of learning to read vs that of learning to SIGHT read a gig.[/quote] Now that's an incredible skill. If you want to take this music lark seriously and make a living from it, I can see a small benefit in learning to read to an average standard, but a huge benefit in learning to sight read a gig. Its something that I will never be able to do that's for sure!

I love the way guys like OutToPlayJazz and Jakesbass explain things. You can tell that noy only do they know their stuff, but also have a lot of experience in explaining it to numpties like me! Good work.

Nah, it's only bass. Play the root, the odd pentatonic fill, show up on time and don't shag the singers missus. You're a pro. Job done.

[quote name='rslaing' post='479359' date='May 4 2009, 08:37 PM']One thing is for sure, unless a musician aspires to be able to play stuff that others can't (unless he is intent on being an average amateur - which is fine too) he will not improve his potential.[/quote] Maybe I'm missing the point here. Everytime i practice am I supposed to be aiming to play things that others can't? I've been concentrating on playing things that sound good! What a fool I've been!

[quote name='AM1' post='479367' date='May 4 2009, 08:45 PM']Before I make any further responses on the actual subject matter of the thread........[/quote] You mean there's more to come? Lucky us.....

[quote name='rslaing' post='479359' date='May 4 2009, 08:37 PM']Countries that hold high levels of all round, quality musicians with unbelievable skill (who can probably all read music) do exist. But you have to go to Japan for classical, and Italy, for "proper" jazz, if that is your preference.[/quote] Can we get you a plane ticket?

I've heard rslaing's playing, and when the dust settles, he will remembered long after Stevie Wonder is all forgotten about. I mean, Stevie Wonder, it's just "POP" innit? Ray Charles? That actor from the Blues Brothers? A poor man's David Essex if you ask me. If they were REAL musicians, they wouldn't need that whole "blind" gimmick.

I PM'd that post to Jake 10 minutes ago and he nicked it off me.

Do I win? God I miss drinking.

my dad could have your dad.

your mum is.

you are.

[quote name='ARGH' post='478569' date='May 3 2009, 09:33 PM']Shall I just get the tape measure lads.....[/quote] Christ, I'd do badly at that as well.

[quote name='maxrossell' post='478565' date='May 3 2009, 09:31 PM']We're not REAL musicians.[/quote] But in my case, that really is true! I'm dreadful!

[quote name='rslaing' post='478552' date='May 3 2009, 09:18 PM']Good point.........but I can't be arsed to try and convert another non reader in to the benefits of being able to understand why it is so important to understand a least a little of music theory. So I give in...........you win.[/quote] There's nothing to convert! I understand an amount of music theory. I find it interesting. I also appreciate that there are plenty of musicians who are infinitely better than me that know absolutely no theory. I also don't believe that by learning to read they would definitely become better musicians. I judge the ability of a musician by the noises they make, not what they can write in a book.

[quote name='Eight' post='478544' date='May 3 2009, 09:09 PM']Reading has no baring at all on the kind of music you make. It's [i]one[/i] well-established and comprehensive system for accessing and recording music. But that's it. How (or if) you use it is up to you. Again, other elements far beyond the scope of reading music are being brought in here to try and make a point.[/quote] Either people who make crap music are drawn to learning to read, or people who learn to read make crap music. Not sure which is true, but one of them definitely is. Or maybe its both? Whatever. Bilbo used to be a right stud, leather trousers, long hair, thrusting groin, mother and daughter 3-somes. Learnt to read, now he's stuck in deepest darkest suffolk, working for "the man" and playing music that not even his dogs want to listen too.

[quote name='rslaing' post='478429' date='May 3 2009, 07:01 PM']So the people who can read music gave their 2p worth and their advice on what they think is the best way. Then the non readers jump in and assassinate. As I said, f*** it, I am out of here, it's starting to get a bit like the freemasons...................[/quote] You've been one of the most aggresive, provocative and patronising posters on this thread, and you're complaining about the non-readers??!! Some people read, some don't. It's a personal choice. Its not through laziness that people don't learn (well, not in every instance). To some people, the percieved rewards aren't worth the effort. If I could read, it would be a redundent skill for the musicians I play with. One day, I might learn. Likewise, I maintain that the majority of music you readers churn out is crap. It's like anything. Once you start getting geeky about things, it turns crap. If you play metal and add some geekiness, what have you got? Progressive metal. Which in my book makes you worse than a sex offender. Same with films, get geeky about it and you start watching 4hr long french art-house in black and white whilst smoking cafe cremes. Football? Same again. You go from arguing about the effectiveness of Peter Crouch with your mates down the pub to memorising the 1983 Bristol Rovers Reserve Squad. Ironside was right in regards to his comments on punk and blues. Born out of "musical ignorance". Send those same players to Berklee for three years and they'd come back playing that the type of water-boarding jazz that a lot of you pretend to like. The world needs players who read, there will always be sessions to record and jingles to perform. But the world also needs the variety, quirks and f***-ups created by those who have never had a lesson in their life.

Batteries in a bass guitar?? This Chief is not for turning.

Trouble is, you study music for too long, you end up playing rubbish. Simple, melodic basslines start to bore you, you start analysing everything you play, next thing you know, you're churning out suff like Jeff Berlin. I always try and listen to the soundclips from various BC members, 'fraid to say (and I know you all really care what I think), the majority of you readers are playing music that only other readers and jazz perverts appreciate. Listen to WoT on the other hand, sounds great. Now I'm sure some of you readers could keep in simple, but it seems that you lack a bit of discipline. If any of you are either near Tonbridge or London, I charge £50 an hour. Just because you can play it, doesn't mean you have to. And before you all come back and say "I know exactly when to keep it simple thank you very much Mr Chief". No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't be playing all this "interesting" music which should really place you on the sex offenders register. Well, I hope this all makes sense. I've just downed a bottle of TixyLix that I found in my cupboard. It went off in 1994 and tasted like chlorine.

Came all the way from somewhere else to drop off a bass to me in London. Lovely fella, great price, great bass, an impish grin and boyish charm. What more could you want? Deal with absolute confidence. And you can take that to the bank.

[quote name='Beefy' post='477159' date='May 1 2009, 04:53 PM']Dookie pretty much got me into all the good 90's punk bands[/quote] There were punk bands in the 90's???!!

Just out of interest Bilbo, what type of music do you think you'd be listening to/playing if you had never bothered learning to read? Would you still be playing? I know it's a difficult question to answer, but be interested to hear your thoughts.