Kiwi

[quote name='Shockwave' post='161171' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:45 PM']I reported the Fake auction.[/quote] cheers, I'd emailed the original seller as well. [quote name='Shockwave' post='161171' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:45 PM']And kiwi, if you dont get on with it and the necks fine, I may have it [/quote] Hehe, if the neck's fine I don't anticipate there being any other problems.

[quote name='YouMa' post='161149' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:06 PM']yeah i know he played bc rich there a quality bass,i just dont like the really pointy ones,to be honest i think someone with that amount of natural rythm could make any bass sound half decent,i know john taylor inherited his stingray,what a nice thing to own a bass that started a whole new genre.I wander if he ever gets it out and plays we are family hahaahhahaa im a disco junky those session bass players in the 70s could really play,and freddy washington on forget me nots is just brilliant.[/quote] Nice to see another discophreak here. Stuart Clayton has written a transription book full of tasty nuggets about Bernard. Check his BC forum out here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showforum=55"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showforum=55[/url] Its claimed that Bernard liked the BC Riches for their look when playing live. If you're into disco, its worth also checking out contemporary players like Julian Crampton with the Sunburst band and Joey Negro, and Gene Perez who has done quite a few NY house sessions. I'm also a long time fan of Rutger Gunnarsson who did the bass AND wrote the brass parts for Abba. Still one of the most under rated 70's players in my opinion, he should be up there with Bernard.

I see, I've changed the title. I'm still not clear on what the difference is between a classic and an update P though. Is it just the active eq? Even if it was designed to emulate a 60's bass, it totally fits the bill for 70's disco and funk. I'm not going to lose sleep over the difference if its just a matter of a preamp.

[quote name='lowdown' post='161080' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:45 PM']Hi Steve.... Are you sure the guy is straight up...? Check out the Ebay Pictures again...... Looks Like the Bass is on a a bed at Wormwood scrubs Good one mate... Only ever tried a Cutlass once..[Swifty's] And it was stonking... I am surpised he did not spot that one.. Garry[/quote] LOL I had a chat with Dave last week about it actually, but he's in Australia with Jools at the moment so only had 1 reply from him. He scored a Cutlass 1 off Ebay in the middle of last year so also has the pair. Only his are both in matching black. I quite like the white, its a bit different and I have another black bass anyway. BTW, Steve Turner played with my band a few weeks back at the Dorchester. He mentioned that he knows you.

[quote name='SpinalTap' post='161097' date='Mar 20 2008, 09:00 PM']Great bass and review. I had the pleasure of playing this when it was for sale in the Netherlands Two details. - I think this is not an Update model, but an Celinder P Classic. these are Celinders passive basses ment to duplicate the magic of very early Fenders, were the Update is more like a 70'ies on steroids bass. - The Pickups is a SD Antiquity II, as I was told. Quite standard for a Classic model.[/quote] Cheers for the info! I see BassXchange have photos of both: [i]Update P[/i] [i]Classic P[/i] Are the only differences the active eq, anodised pickguard and yellow-ish neck?

cheers, its arriving next Wedneday or Thursday, seller seems straight up. Definitely gonna be interesting to see how the neck is.

[quote name='paul, the' post='159774' date='Mar 18 2008, 05:35 PM']Everyone give Steve a hand for sharing.[/quote] There y'go, now noone is allowed to hog it.

I'm a complete groove addict. Soul, funk and disco - thats what I enjoy, thats what I play. Usually opt for a 5 string but sometimes only a 4 will do because I get the biggest buzz out of replicating the sounds on the records and recreating the same kind of vibe. I'm a closet 6 string player too and I dabble in MIDI/recording and stuff when I'm motivated enough.

No regrets here so far. Even sold on my Smith BSR6GN and Jaydee Supernatural MK, I haven't missed them yet. Each bass I now own has a place and a function.

thats pretty good!

Your impression could depend on so many factors - where you're standing for a start. They could also be using subs under the stage that couple acoustically with the venue floor.

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='158650' date='Mar 16 2008, 10:20 PM']Hey there mate... I think I'll take you up on this offer. It's only about 30 minutes from where I live. Thanks! Just to let you know, I only plan to bring a bass and a gadget or two. Wahey, I'm sorted! [/quote] OKdoke, if you drop me a PM closer to the time I'll let you know where I can pick you up.

[i][b]Features:[/b][/i] This 34” scale instrument was made in 2003 at the Smith manufacturing facility in Perkasie, Pennsylvania. I bought it from Bass Northwest in 2005, secondhand in mint condition. The bass has 24 “frets” and 5 strings with laminated facings of unfigured walnut front and back. The fingerboard is a thick pieve of ebony and is unmarked with fret lines making it very necessary to have clean sounding monitoring on stage. The bass has a preamp and the controls include volume, which can be pulled for passive bypass, pickup pan, bass, mid and treble, with series/parallel switches and the pickups are Smiths own passive humbuckers. The body features a flamed maple core and the neck is a 5 piece graphite reinforced laminate of 3 maple and 2 bubinga pieces. The bass is finished in a soft oil finish and the body style is a modified precision inspired shape with bigger cutaways. The bridge is made from brass and is a fairly standard quick release type with two dimensions of movement. The tuners are Smith monogrammed but internally geared and almost identical to Schaller M4 in design. The neck dimensions are probably my favourite part, typically fairly chunky in depth with a pronounced C profile. This feels great to me because my hands tend to cramp up on thin profile necks. The bass came with a hardshell, leather trimmed case and case candy including dust cloth, Smith strap, polish, brochures and guarantee card. [b][i]Sound:[/i][/b] I guess the sound of this bass could be best described as warm and sweet. The lows are very full and open, the mids scooped and the highs sweet without sounding brittle or muffled. It’s pretty much the ultimate bass for any styles of music that require a full, rich tone such as RnB, hip hop, latin, house etc. At the moment I use the bass with Gallien Krueger and Trace valve amps through Gallien Krueger and EBS neo 2x12 cabs. Generally the basses have a prominent upper mid-scoop. This character is emphasised by many hybrid heads already coloured with a mid-scoop to sound best with jazz type basses making the mids so scooped that its difficult to tell what pitch is being played at performance volumes. Therefore I ended up going for a solid state and other wise fairly aggressive sounding GK amp to go with the Smith basses because the amps preserve most of the mids meaning that any tonal changes I make are more effective. After countless gigs I’ve been able to hear myself superbly in a variety of situations ranging from acoustically dead marquees to echo chamber type narrow halls with nothing but hard, reflective surfaces. The relatively neutral sound of the amps means that I can use them with other basses as well. In terms of the variety of sounds, the bass is fairly versatile but maybe not for all kinds of music. For example, the neck pickup is very warm with a little bit of a upper-mid/low treble bite which is OK for ballads while the bridge pickup does more than a passable status bass impersonation. For fretless basses, the important thing is sustain and, for a wood necked bass it has good sustain but my all-maple Pedulla has considerably more than the Smith. The series/parallel switches add a subtle fullness difference to the sound of the pickups in series mode but nothing that would influence how I would approach finding the right sound for a song. I’ve tried the bass in both live and recorded situations and its performed superbly. It doesn’t do jazz or precision interpretations very well at all but this doesn’t mean it can’t find a place in the mix. Comparing this bass to a jazz bass would be like comparing a Gibson Les Paul to a Stratocaster. What I like most about this bass is the huge warmth, growly mids and sweet highs, the bass can be plugged in with no eq and still sit in the mix superbly. In situations where the bass has been subject to extreme gain, I have noticed some microphonic characteristics with the pickups. I wouldn’t recommend this bass to be used in situations with hi gain distortion. [i][b]Action Fit and Finish:[/b][/i] The action of this instrument is pretty good, but Ken Smith deliberately builds some flexibility into the necks of his basses as he feels it adds to the quality of the sound. This means that I’ve not been able to achieve Status/Alembic levels of low action, but the bass is still very playable. The finish of components is superb and flawless, the fit is also excellent and faultless. [i][b]Reliability/Durability:[/b][/i] The bass has proven very reliable in live situations, the hardware is robust and the neck stable. The finish has proven to be very thin and probably doesn’t do a very good job of protecting the bass as such. The bass takes even fingernail marks easily and a sharp belt buckle could probably cause irreparable damage to the back of the bass over one gig. I have found that the Dunlop strap-loks haven’t been 100% reliable. In situations where diagonal strain is placed on the strap-loks, they do tend to pop off. In normal playing situations I haven’t encountered any problems and the bass has never fallen off the strap while gigging on stage. [i][b]Customer Support:[/b][/i] I have dealt with Ken Smith and have found him to be curmudgeonly at times. He has come across as defensive when I’ve raised my varied experiences of his basses with him. Other Smith owners appear to share my experiences. I get the impression that he’s not that interested in offering support unless it leads directly to a sale of some kind. This stands in stark contrast to the friendly service offered by some companies such as Alembic. [b][i]Overall rating:[/i][/b] I own a range of other bass gear including a Smith BSR5GN, Musicman, Alembic, Celinder and Pedulla plus more stuff I’ve sold on, including a Smith BSR6GN. I’ve been very satisfied with the bass since owning it, its managed to hit the right spot every time I’ve used it. Generally this is my No 1 fretless when needed and its usually taken along with its fretted sister. Originally I bought this bass to match the Smith BSR5GN. Because this bass has a maple core, the mids sound a little firmer and the bass a little tighter than on the fretted Smith 5 when played in the studio. However live on stage, the differences are negligible. There’s nothing out there on the market which sounds like a Smith. Having said that the Peavey Cirrus comes close and does have some Smith characteristics although it lacks the sweet treble and deep bass. Check other reviews here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15451"]Smith BSR5GN[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15450"]Celinder Update P[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15449"]Celinder Update J[/url]

[b][i]Features:[/i][/b] This 34” scale instrument was made in 2002 at the Smith manufacturing facility in Perkasie, Pennsylvania. I boughnt it from the now defunct Bass Palace who obtained it as NOS in a deal from The Low End. The bass has 24 frets and 5 strings with laminated facings of 5A quilted maple front and back. The bass has a preamp and the controls include volume, which can be pulled for passive bypass, pickup pan, bass, mid and treble, and the pickups are Smiths own passive humbuckers wired in parallel. The body features a mahogany core and the neck is a 5 piece graphite reinforced laminate of 3 maple and 2 bubinga pieces. The bass is finished in a soft oil finish and the body style is a modified precision inspired shape with bigger cutaways and extended horns. The bridge is made from brass and is a fairly standard quick release type with two dimensions of movement. The tuners are Smith monogrammed but internally geared and almost identical to Schaller M4 in design. The neck dimensions are probably my favourite part, typically fairly chunky in depth with a pronounced C profile. This feels great to me because my hands tend to cramp up on thin profile necks. The bass came with a hardshell, leather trimmed case and case candy including dust cloth, Smith strap, polish, brochures and guarantee card. [b][i]Sound:[/i][/b] I guess the sound of this bass could be best described as warm and sweet. The lows are very full and open, the mids scooped and the highs sweet without sounding brittle or muffled. It’s pretty much the ultimate bass for any styles of music that require a full, rich tone such as RnB, hip hop, latin, house etc. At the moment I use the bass with Gallien Krueger and Trace valve amps through Gallien Krueger and EBS neo 2x12 cabs. I’ve tried it with SWR, Eden, Peavey, Ampeg, and rack based systems as well with mixed results. Generally the basses have a prominent upper mid-scoop. This character is emphasised by many hybrid heads already coloured with a mid-scoop to sound best with jazz type basses making the mids so scooped that its difficult to tell what pitch is being played at performance volumes. Therefore I ended up going for a solid state and other wise fairly aggressive sounding GK amp to go with the Smith basses because the amps preserve most of the mids meaning that any tonal changes I make are more effective. After countless gigs I’ve been able to hear myself superbly in a variety of situations ranging from acoustically dead marquees to echo chamber type narrow halls with nothing but hard, reflective surfaces. The relatively neutral sound of the amps means that I can use them with other basses as well In terms of the variety of sounds, the bass is fairly versatile but maybe not for all kinds of music. For example, the neck pickup is very warm with a little bit of a upper-mid/low treble bite which is OK for ballads while the bridge pickup does more than a passable status bass impersonation. On reflection I’d say the bass probably has a slight 80’s flavour but with lots more warmth. I’ve tried the bass in both live and recorded situations and its performed superbly. It doesn’t do jazz or precision interpretations very well at all but this doesn’t mean it can’t find a place in the mix. Comparing this bass to a jazz would be like comparing a Gibson Les Paul to a Stratocaster. What I like most about this bass is the huge warmth, growly mids and sweet highs, the bass can be plugged in with no eq and still sit in the mix superbly. In situations where the bass has been subject to extreme gain, I have noticed some microphonic characteristics with the pickups. I wouldn’t recommend this bass to be used in situations with hi gain distortion. [b][i]Action Fit and Finish:[/i][/b] The action of this instrument is pretty good, but Ken Smith deliberately builds some flexibility into the necks of his basses as he feels it adds to the quality of the sound. This means that I’ve not been able to achieve Status/Alembic levels of low action, but the bass is still very playable. The finish of components is superb and flawless, the fit is also excellent and faultless. [b][i]Reliability/Durability:[/i][/b] The bass has proven very reliable in live situations, the hardware is robust and the neck stable. The finish has proven to be very thin and probably doesn’t do a very good job of protecting the bass as such. The bass takes even fingernail marks easily and a sharp belt buckle could probably cause irreparable damage to the back of the bass in for one gig. I have found that the Dunlop strap loks haven’t been 100% reliable. In situations where diagonal strain is placed on the strap loks, they do tend to pop off. In normal playing situations I haven’t encountered any problems and the bass has never fallen off the strap while gigging on stage. [i][b]Customer Support:[/b][/i] I have dealt with Ken Smith and have found him to be curmudgeonly at times. He has come across as defensive when I’ve raised my varied experiences of his basses with him. Other Smith owners appear to share my experiences with the support. I get the impression that he’s not that interested in offering support unless it leads directly to a sale of some kind. This stands in stark contrast to the friendly service offered by some companies such as Alembic. [b][i]Overall rating:[/i][/b] I own a range of other bass gear including a Smith BSR6GN, a Smith BSR5GN fretless, Musicmans, Alembic, Celinders and Pedulla plus more stuff I’ve sold on. I’ve been very satisfied with the bass since owning it, its managed to hit the right spot every time I’ve used it. Generally this is my fall back bass when there’s no need for a specific tone from one of my more specialist basses. I wanted a Smith bass ever since hearing John Pattitucci playing one in the late 80’s. Originally I bought this bass as a step up to getting the Smith 6 string, which I bought and have actually sold on while still keeping this bass. There’s nothing out there on the market which sounds like a Smith. Having said that the Peavey Cirrus comes close and does have some Smith characteristics although it lacks the sweet treble and deep bass. Check other reviews here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15452"]Smith BSR5GN fretless[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15450"]Celinder Update P[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15449"]Celinder Update J[/url]

[i][b]Features:[/b][/i] This 34” scale instrument was made in 2002 at the Celinder workshops in Copenhagen, Denmark. I bought it from fellow Basschatter, Flanker. The bass has 21 frets and 4 strings with an anodised aluminium pickguard and is finished in candy apple red. The bass is passive and only has a volume and tone control. The pickups are, as far as I know, Celinder’s own. The body is made from alder and the neck is a single piece of graphite reinforced maple with some interesting figuring around the 11th fret. This figuring is evident in the fingerboard as well suggesting that the fingerboard and neck were probably from the same piece of lumber at one point. The bass is finished in a durable polyeurathane finish and the body style is a modified precision inspired shape with a slightly more pointed and curved lower horn. The bridge is made from brass and is a fairly standard Celinder type with two dimensions of movement and through body stringing. The tuners are modern Hipshot, cloverleaf, reverse geared types typically of the design associated with vintage fenders. The neck dimensions are more similar to a jazz bass than a precision and the neck is remarkably easy to play. The bass came with a hardshell, leather trimmed case. [i][b]Sound:[/b][/i] With flatwounds on, I guess the sound of this bass could be best described as warm and mellow. It was designed to sound like a 70’s Fender Precision and does the job superbly. A few choice notes evokes all those Lalo Shifrin numbers for Dirty Harry as well as some of those classic motown numbers. The lows are very full and punchy and the highs restrained thanks to the string choice. The bass doesn’t sound clanky or brittle at all. At the moment I use the bass with Gallien Krueger and Trace valve amps through Gallien Krueger and EBS neo 2x12 cabs. It sounds superb through all amps but probably sounds punchier through the Gallien Krueger amp and fuller through the Trace V8. In terms of the variety of sounds, the bass isn’t the most versatile but because of the pedigree of the classic precision design, it sits remarkably well in a surprising number of songs over a wide variety of genres. I tend to use it for Motown and British disco covers. I’ve yet to hear any hum or microphony from the instrument in high gain situations. [b][i]Action Fit and Finish:[/i][/b] The action of this instrument is pretty good. The finish of components is superb and flawless and the fit is also excellent and faultless. [i][b]Reliability/Durability:[/b][/i] The bass has proven very reliable in live situations, the hardware is robust and the neck stable. No issues with the performance of the instrument whatsoever. [i][b]Customer Support:[/b][/i] I have dealt with Chris Celinder on one occasion and found him to be relatively easy to deal with although I have yet to make any real demands of him. I understand that others have had less than satisfactory experiences with him. I’ve heard from the Bass Gallery that Chris has had a series of serious personal and business situations that may have contributed to his temperamental reactions at times. [i][b]Overall rating:[/b][/i] I own a range of other bass gear including Smiths, Musicmans, an Alembic, a Celinder Update J and Pedulla plus more stuff I’ve sold on. I’ve been very satisfied with the bass since owning it, its managed to hit the right spot every time I’ve used it. Generally this is my main bass when I need a greasy, funky 70’s bass sound or embarrass myself by attempting a James Jamerson impersonation. Check out other reviews here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15451"]Smith BSR5GN[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15452"]Smith BSR5GN fretless[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15449"]Celinder Update J[/url]

[i][b]Features:[/b][/i] This 34” scale instrument was made in 1998 at the Celinder workshops in Copenhagen, Denmark. I bought it from fellow Basschatter, Flanker. The bass has 21 frets and 4 strings with an black plastic pickguard and is finished in solid black. The instrument was made originally for a player called Thomas Skarbye who used it to record a sample library of sounds which have been marketed with some reasonable success. The bass is active and has an Aguilar OBP1 preamp powered by two 9v batteries. The controls feature one volume per pickup, a treble and bass control. The bass can be put into passive mode by pulling the bridge pickup volume control and in this situation the active treble control acts as a passive treble cut. The pickups are by Lindy Fralin. The body is made from alder and the neck is a single piece of graphite reinforced maple. The neck dimensions are typical of a jazz bass in width although perhaps a little more shallow than a genuine 70’s instrument. The neck is still remarkably easy to play however and feels very rigid. The bass is finished in a durable polyeurathane finish and the body style is jazz inspired with a slightly more rounded shape. The bridge is made by Badass with two dimensions of movement and top loaded stringing. The tuners are modern Hipshot, cloverleaf, normal geared types typically of the design associated with Fenders. The E-string features a Hipshot D-tuner which is useful for either quick changes to a low D tuning or for increasing the number of notes available when playing open harmonics. The bass came with a gig bag rather than a hardshell case. [i][b]Sound:[/b][/i] I guess the sound of this bass could be best described as bright and very full with crystal clear highs and huge lows. It was designed to sound like a 70’s Fender Jazz and does the job superbly. A few choice notes evokes a number of acid jazz, house disco numbers and, in particular, Marcus Miller. One thing I noted is that it doesn’t growl on the bridge pickup as much as some preCBS type jazz designs in active mode. I can only attribute this to colouring in the Aguilar preamp. When in passive mode, the mids sound much more prominent while the lows and crystal highs are less emphasised. Personally, I prefer the sound of this bass in passive mode. I’ve also experienced hum while using either pickup on its own but together the pickups act like a humbucker. At the moment I use the bass with Gallien Krueger and Trace valve amps through Gallien Krueger and EBS neo 2x12 cabs. It sounds superb through all amps but probably sounds a little too brittle through the Gallien Krueger amp at flat settings. I’ve put this down to the Lindy Fralin pickups and would prefer to play it through the Trace V8 + EBS Neo212 given a choice. In terms of the variety of sounds, the bass is pretty versatile as most jazz basses are. However its a little more aggressive than a genuine 70's jazz and a little less aggressive than a Sadowsky so I tend to use it for disco, RnB and modern funk covers. I've also tried an all white Celinder Larry Graham Signature jazz and found it to be a lot softer in character too. [b][i]Action Fit and Finish:[/i][/b] The action of this instrument is excellent. The finish of components is superb and flawless and the fit is also excellent and faultless. [i][b]Reliability/Durability:[/b][/i] The bass has proven very reliable in live situations, the hardware is robust and the neck stable. I don’t recall ever needing to do any major adjustments or significant tuning to it. There have been no issues with the performance of the instrument whatsoever. [i][b]Customer Support:[/b][/i] I have dealt with Chris Celinder on one occasion and found him to be relatively easy to deal with although I have yet to make any real demands of him. I understand that others have had less than satisfactory experiences with him. I’ve heard from the Bass Gallery that Chris has had a series of serious personal and business situations that may have affected his mood at times. [i][b]Overall rating:[/b][/i] I own a range of other bass gear including Smiths, Musicmans, an Alembic, a Celinder Update P and Pedulla, plus more stuff I’ve sold on. I’ve been very satisfied with the bass since owning it, its managed to hit the right spot every time I’ve used it. Generally this is my bass of choice for funky 70’s or acid jazz/house disco type bass sounds. Check out other reviews here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15451"]Smith BSR5GN[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15452"]Smith BSR5GN fretless[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15450"]Celinder P Classic[/url]

[quote name='Forcemaster' post='155655' date='Mar 11 2008, 11:45 PM']I have a cunning plan m'lord. Would it not be a huge amount of fun if we could perhaps bring some of our drummer buddies down and set up a drum and bass jam sesh? My father has an electric drum kit I could probably persuade to let my bring, and we can run that through a bass rig and just have a cool little jam going on. I don't know wether that'd be against some public performance laws or something but if people like the idea it would be great fun! (P.S. Kudos to those who get the blackadder reference)[/quote] You know what? I was so close to suggesting this myself and I can't remember what stopped me. I think I might have been distracted by work at the time. It's only a short jump to others bringing a guitar and a keyboard and... ...a Basschat band is formed.

welcome to both of you

Yeah reviews - I've been meaning to cover all my basses but... ...mmm, finding the time.

[quote name='Hiperi0n' post='157875' date='Mar 15 2008, 10:34 AM']ahhhh you was the guy who outbid me at last 5 seconds damn....ehehe congrats on the bass!!! enjoy it...i never tried a cutlass so was curious to own one...next time[/quote] I'm sorry u didn't get it but I've only ever seen 1 other come up on Ebay so my maximum bid was quite a lot higher than the end price. Bit of a steal. If you can make the bassbash and it gets delivered before then I'll probably bring both Celinders and both Cutlasses for people to have a go on. You could try them out then?

Walking On The Moon - Police Aint Nobody - Chaka Khan Whereever I Lay My Hat - Paul Young Dry Cleaner from Des Moines - Joni Mitchell Reflections - Supremes Lifting Me Higher - Jackie Wilson (and there's only a one bass bar bassline!) pretty much EVERYTHING by Level 42 lol

and its mine for a pretty stonking price. Year, probably around 1984. Neck might potentially be like a banana but I've got both I & II versions now and the two pickups mean I can gig the Cutlass II on the motown and disco stuff without changing instrument. Oh. Yes. Gotta love that cuttlary.

[quote name='paul, the' post='156970' date='Mar 13 2008, 08:11 PM']evenin' and welcome, Spider. It appears when entering 'uk bass forum'. I don't think it used to, though.[/quote] Google rankings are set according to the number of links back to a site from other sites, so lets get out there on facebook and mypace scattering a few links around the place Welcome aboard spider