Kiwi

Playability counts a lot more as I get older. I'm going to start investigating filters, the body woods seem to be based on mass (lighter the better, up until a point). Neck woods on a sweet spot of rigidity (which isn't easy to measure), along with dampening for both.

I've had the wow experience maybe four times in my life and I didn't buy the bass three of those times. First was an old mongrel jazz bass back in the late 80's in NZ, second was a Sei 4 string bass, third was a Spector 5 (which I bought) and the last was a Celinder J Update 5. Still kicking myself over that last one, it was perfect. I've resolved to try and uncover what makes that wow moment happen. So far it can be either simple (a lucky combination of neck and body wood) or complex (everything). I have a few avenues to explore but no certainty.

Anything by the Freemasons, they're the masters of bombastic anthems. Not sure if they're last ten years but regardless...damn.

Speaking of interesting...would you like to hear Seasick Steve on bass and vocals? Yes, that's really him. Including Joe Hubbard.

Relax man, it's just an opinion. But it's not stereotyping, it's a generalisation with the purpose of making a point about notions of affordability and value in the boutique market. Also check out the interview with Kyle Kim of Sire basses, there is a common perception about who the boutique market is aimed at and it's not working musicians. In regards to EB, it's in context of shared experiences of the bizarre world that is the EB forum.

I checked with Lee Anderton and he said the same thing about reducing production but he didn't know about US vs International proportions. So it looks like I was right, EB are relying on their cult of fanboy retired dentists and lawyers to prop them up. I'd like to think it might suck up some of the hot air of hype that circulates generally amongst the top brands. If there's any market that could do with a reset, it's the guitar and bass market. Especially since the recession.

I don't know if this is still the case but for a while, Valenti was making his instruments out of off the shelf parts. This is why his instruments were at the price point they were. Ironically, this is the same way that Roger Sadowsky started (who Valenti also spent some time working for).

Nice work Andy! Loving that finish.

Other US manufacturers aren't doing it though. And they'd be foolish to as it would undermine the broader appeal of their products, as you can plainly see from this thread. The only exception I can think of is if the fanboy market is big enough that they can support the factory based on their purchasing power alone. This seems a little far fetched but, given how culty it is on the EB forum I wouldn't dismiss it completely...I suppose.

Yes they can and what restrictions are you talking about? Their basses are not complicated things, they were designed with mass production in mind, just like Fenders.

Exactly. I suggested the same thing a few pages back. Fender, Warwick, Spector and others have a track record of putting the traditional workhorse models out of reach and then upselling the budget models so they become the new workhorse range.

Greed (I think).

You joined in 2008 so it only took 13 years. LMAO! Welcome back, anyway.

Prices will vary according to species too based on demand and supply. But within a single species, there's a lot of variation. Manufacturers either buy seasoned stock in bulk and grade the wood themselves, or they will buy a tree and have it milled themselves and then season it in house. For specific requirements they turn up to a sawmill and go through a woodpile themselves. EB, Dingwall and maybe Fender for timbre specific models will grade a single species according to weight as well as appearance. Fender will generally find a use for all the grades of wood depending on the price points of each model. For example, ash of a particular weight and appearance might go into a Marcus Miller model. It seems like EB are starting to do the same thing. So yes cheaper wood in cheaper models but it's not down to the purchase price so much as they're using more of what's available... there's less waste. Also it's worth remembering that a lot of eq filtering can be achieved with the electronics these days as well.

It's a podcast, not music but it's a very interesting listen. Jocko is an ex Navy Seal officer, he looks like a gorilla but there's a lot of real life experience behind his views...(although I think he should stay the hell away from politics because, for all his combat experience, he'd be on his own with no leadership or backup.) He also did his own podcast with former Navy Seal team mate and subordinate Jonny Kim, who started off as a seal medic in Jockos platoon, trained as a sniper, left the Navy and trained as a doctor at Harvard completing the four year degree in three, THEN decided to become as astronaut. He's currently scheduled for launch to the moon in 2024. Both men are a testament to what can be achieved through sheer bloody mindedness and (ironically for ex military) a humanist mindset.

He's a phenomenally funky bassist. I think Andrew McKinney (also with JTQ) is as well. And so is Phil.

Julian Crampton

So long as the V5 and V7 range don't start increasing in price to match that. We've already seen EB, Warwick, Fender and others do the let-make-the-workhorse-bass-a-halo-model thing.

Not as great as the original stingray when it was equally affordable though, unfortunately.

Kyle already owns the biggest music instrument manufacturing brand in Korea called Dame. Through a process of mostly unbelievable luck as well as diligence, he established Sire with Marcus Miller without any industry support or representation in the US. Kyle describes the US musical instrument industry as a cartel (37:50 and 49:00) because despite having Marcus Miller on board, noone at NAMM 2009 was interested in representing the brand. Kyle also mentions that, according to Marcus, his instruments were directly responsible for the break between Marcus and Fender (40:00). They also talk about how bass prices for established bass brands have crept up way beyond the costs of manufacture (21:30/22:00) which kind of ties into the Ernie Ball Specials thread. It's a long watch at 90min but worth it if you're interested in a discussion about the state of the industry.

That sounds like a very interesting combination. I like mahogany in almost anything. With the right kind of maple - not too rigid, it's really nice.

He's not the only one to have had this experience. It's fanboys only, if you're not with 'em, you're agin 'em.

he's included guitars though, still a lot of basses just by themselves...!

I forgot to mention the impact on second hand instruments as well. Watch those climb in the same way they did for Warwick and (perhaps more understandably) Wal. It's about adding something extra to a bass worth $100 and then charging $700 for it because the marketing have found a way to create mythology for the difference...roasted necks, for example. In other market sectors, used cars or financial products, there are laws against misleading claims...but it's not relevant to any market sector, like guitars, that has mythology to fall back on. The marketing department can spin a story that evokes a sense of living your dream...or anything else that can translate into bragging rights (e.g. limited edition colours) without making a single claim about tangible (and therefore actionable) benefits and there we go.