Rick's Fine '52

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1348007496' post='1808181'] I guess a good player is more likely to have been played and thus may be more battered than a case queen that had sat there because owners didn't like it as a player - or do collectors just park them for decades to look at or not as the case may be? [/quote] Commonly, a good player will show signs of such wear, but there are exceptions, there are examples of great playing instruments, that have genuinly been unplayed , or untouched for lots of reasons. Often players bought instruments in the 50's or 60's because they were in bands, then after the bands fell apart after a couple of years, the guitars were resigned to closets etc (Hence the term), and genuinly untouched. Its only many years later when people re-find these things, that they appear on the market. These fine condition specimins are therefore highly sought after. As an example, my Paisley telecaster bass was bought by someone who only played it for around 6 months, it then went out of fashion very quickly, and was left in a cupboard for over 40 years, its almost mint, it does happen, although not as often as we'd all like! Most collectors, me included, dont wrap instruments in cotton wool, and store them away (There are of course exceptions). I play all mine, although some are treated more carefully than others, for valid reasons. For example, the bakelite pickguard on my '52 is so easily marked, even with fingers and palms, and because of its condition, if this deteriorated too much, it would affect its value etc, so one must be sensible. It does get played though, but it is kept in a good case, and not in the rack with some of my others. All my other P's show wear, and are played regularly, without too much concern, although I have other basses that are more suited to the Dog & Duck! Happy to help where/when I can mate.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1347982785' post='1807640'] do you think it will go beyond there? I mean everything since fullerton stuff kinda blurs into one as they split production across mexico and the states and japan- I guess the custom shop stuff will hold it's value [/quote] Custom Shop relics for example have been between £1200 and £1600 for 10 years now, and as they are still being made, and to the same specs as the ones in say 2000, it's unlikely to change. The Cunetto Relics are the only ones that differ, they can easily fetch double that, as they were made differently, quite limited, and only made for a brief period, so they are relatively exclusive. Anything with a level of exclusivity, [i]and[/i] renowned quality, should increase in value, as history has, and does tell us. Apart from the early '82 JV's, I can't see other Jap, Mex or US reissues ever being sought after, or increasing in value, as there was never great attention to detail, quality, or anything different with those, than the ones still made today. If they are good examples, they should hold value, although there are always dozens for sale at any one time, so that will keep the prices stable.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1347980658' post='1807595'] Next stop the early 80's fullerton stuff?? [/quote] Already happening, really nice examples of '82 Fullertons (Guitars more than basses, but they will follow), with V00 serials, and all the case candy, in custom colours, are already being marketed at $4000, well over double what they were two years ago even! Thats because the majority can no longer afford the pre-CBS stuff, the same as with 70's stuff, as you said earlier. The added bonus, is that the Fullertons (Earluy ones) are also great guitars, not just collectors pieces. (Not as good as the '82 JV's eh Luke, but still good!) Here's a fine one, $3800 anyone? [url="http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-fullerton-62-reissue-str-1982-reissue-1"]http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-fullerton-62-reissue-str-1982-reissue-1[/url]

Thanks guys, this is why i love basschat!, just been having a scan of those links, not as scarce as I first thought then, although still rare obviously, as they all are! Problem now, is that will a normal slash hole 4005 be good enough!! D'oh!

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1347973969' post='1807425'] Forget about years, colours, finishes or even the level of cosmetic damage. Just play a few and buy the one that plays and sounds good and isn't priced at a ridiculous value. When it comes to pre CBS Fenders there is a lot of stories about good years and finishes, but that won't guarantee that an individual bass will actually be any good just because it belongs to a particular time period. My view is that there is no point in buying the most original, mint condition vintage instrument if you gain no real joy in playing it. [/quote] For the most part, I'd agree with this. Every bass should be judged on its merits, I've seen some '63 Jazz's for example that are absolute dogs, so year alone is not an indication on quality, or investment. Having said that, you can generally rely on them to increase in value, but you must have a good one, that will always appeal to players and collectors. All of mine have increased in value since buying, some significantly so. The main things to consider are; Firstly, and most importantly, does it play properly, and does everything function as it should, Truss rod free, with plenty of movement?, wiring and pots crackle free, neck straight, good intonation etc. If all that stuff is OK, then you know it plays, and therefore is fit for its primary function, so huge tick in the box, and then you can move on to the stuff that should be considered, if you are also hoping for investment opportunity, these things include; Originality, particularly finish. Refinished basses will never appreciate at the same rate as original finishes. Most collectors won't touch refinished guitars, so your market, when re-selling, is instantly reduced. On the other hand, by the same token, refin'd guitars are much cheaper in the first place, which can mean you can afford a '62 Jazz, for the same price as a '68 original finish Jazz. Original pickups, pots etc are also vitally important. Basically, the more thats original, the more desirable. If it has original case, this also makes a difference. Years, and colours, is very difficult, as each one should be taken on its individual merits. the [i]general[/i] rule of thumb, is the earlier the better, so, a '60 Jazz will be more valuable than a '62, which will be more valuable than a '64. Slab necks are also far more desirable than veneer necks on Jazzes. Precisions are a bit different, as there were more models available, and each one has a transition period, which brings in different things to different collectors, but you've already said you dont like the pre-57 shape, so that makes it far easier. A gold anodized guard/maple neck is probably the most desirable, and regarded as the ultimate fender bass, the one that Leo finally perfected after the earlier 6 years. A gold guard, with rosewood neck is rarer, but less desirable, as it looks odd for the purists. From there, again, its generally earlier the better. A slab board is better than a veneer board, spaghetti logo's without pat numbers, better than ones with. Transition decals are then cheaper than spaghetti's etc. Colours. Custom colours are rarer than sunbursts, but can be an acquired taste, not everyone likes candy apple red, or lake placid blue, including me. I personally think a Fender bass should be sunburst or blonde, depending on the era, and thats what I buy, others collect [i]only[/i] custom colours! Again, each one on its merits, and of course, whether it's value or not. Also, some custom colours are crazy rare, Teal Green for example, on a jazz is highly prized, and can command serious cash, Black, also a custom colour, is a bit of a no-no when it comes to old Fenders, and can be very difficult to shift, collectors generally won't touch one. In summary, originality, playability, rarity and condition, will dictate the value, and subsequent appreciation, and re-saleability (made up word!), the higher the rating on each of those 4 counts, the better the investment opportunity...in the medium to long term of course, not much doubles over night! Cautionary note, an instrument (or anything), will only be a good investment if you dont pay over the odds in the first place, so make sure its a good opportunity. Todays market is an excellent time to buy, with more choice out there than I've known for a long time (Even if most are in the US, which may be an issue for some buyers). i would also advise you to firstly buy a guitar because it plays and sounds how you want it to, and secondly for the other factors. Don't just buy a guitar because its 'vintage'. Your budget, and only you will know what this is, will dictate what level instrument you will be looking at, whether it's an original '58 Precision, an original '63 Precision, a refinished '64 Jazz etc. Shop around, use gBase as a guide to what prices things are being offered at, and make a judgement. I'd be more than happy to advise on anything you have in mind, and give an objective view. Hope this helps. Rick

Hi, as some of you who know about me will be aware, i've been after a Ricky 4005 for a while now, and whilst trawling t'interweb the other day, I came across this, a 4005, with F-hole, like the Rose Morris guitars, a'la Lennon/Townsend etc. I've never seen, or been able to find since seeing this pic, any reference to this model being made. I've seen the 'standard' 4005, with no binding; the 4005 WB, with binding to the back only, and the 4005 WB, with binding to front & back, and also, the super rare 8 string, wiggly headstock version, but never a Rose Morris version? Anyone seen these before, or have any details? Any help would be appreciated. Ta Rick

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1347827440' post='1805576'] Just bought this B15N to go with my old AEB Scroll bass. GAS is cured for now (I think) [attachment=118515:DSC05220.JPG] [/quote] Lovely pairing, both on my wants list!

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1347810027' post='1805279'] The first production fretless bass was the Ampeg AUB-1, introduced in 1966. It had a scroll peghead [/quote] I was close!

ET is correct, the first fretless P was 1970. The ampeg baby is an upright, they did 2 fretless basses with scroll headstocks, dont recall the models (From memory; AMB1 & ASB1???) , they are known as the scroll bass and devil bass, one had full depth f-holes, the other had horns, they were available from '66. Not aware of a pre-'66 production mainstream fretless? I'll be looking into the quote later, it's somewhere, but i have alot of fender/bass books, so may take a while!!

Macca wasnt too bad either!! Lead vocals, harmonising, and fairly busy basslines, not easy. I'm awful, as soon as i open my mouth, my right hand just stops... (Theres's a joke in there somewhere I'm sure, but can't be arsed to change the sentence, you know what i mean!)

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1347727567' post='1804406'] Not a Fender bass V - it was an undisclosed make of fretless. [/quote] I'll stand corrected if wrong, but it is quite a famous story, which is claimed, by a fender R&D rep, to have damaged the reputation of the Bass V. I'll find the actual story at some point, its quite a famous story, as the original poster stated. Can't imagine JJ having an issue with a fretless, as he was a doghouse player, ewhereas the Bass V, is just a dog to play! I'm off to trawl my many books to find the story......

I'm trying to find one component that actually looks remotely like a genuine fender one? Thumbrest? £150, and not finished yet!!!, someone is gonna get hurt, it ain't worth £30

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1347516178' post='1801812'] I'm pretty sure the reputed bass was a Fender Bass V and not a fretless P. [/quote] This.

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1347576601' post='1802801'] I can imagine your boy saying "its my turn now dad" .. In a minute son.. In a minute [/quote] More than once!!

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1347568997' post='1802664'] hi Rick, do you tune those small basses EADG? Cheers [/quote] Yes, just the same, great fun for me too, nice and easy to play chords on with the short neck.

[u]Full story;[/u] [u][url="http://www.21frets.com/Squier_History.html"]http://www.21frets.c...er_History.html[/url][/u] And here's the man himself;

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1347449832' post='1800890'] Has he made his bed yet? [/quote] No, he's too busy shredding, to do his bedding!

Chris, Not sure how small/age group you're looking for, but I bought my Son a Westfield Precision for his 6th birthday, see below. He's 11 now, and still uses it, and they're still made, it cost about £80, along with a used Ashdown perfect 10 combo, was ideal as a starter bass. It came with a strap, lead, DVD tutor, and a little battery amplifier, great value for £80. They did it in black, white or red. I can try and track down where i got it from if you're interested.

Here's my bass + rig. All from early 1952, the original 'bass rig'. 1952 Fender Precision, original plastileather bag and strap. 1952 Fender TV Bassman, 1x15, tweed. [url="javascript:void(0);"][/url]