Rick's Fine '52

I've never heard so much opinionated crap in all my life. Interesting thread, and the OP is probably wondering where his original thread went. Interesting comments, amusing comments, and some of the most ill-informed comments i've ever read. Some comments also, that, reading behind the text, appear to be based around jealousy of never being able to have a vintage Fender, so will happily try and discredit all vintage Fenders as being crap. Nevertheless, I won't rise to that, as it doesnt warrant any further comment. Getting back to subject, and in response to some of the more sensible comments, and regarding other brands. This is my[i] opinion[/i], based on too much time spent looking into such things. If you want to buy a bass that will appreciate financially, and give you years of enjoyment, and playing, then a Fender is still the best way to tick those boxes, the market is evidence of this, which is all you need to look at, or listen to. The market is there for all to see, so opinions, are just that, opinions. Pre-EB Stingrays have been mentioned, and are certainly collectible, they will also appreciate every year, and most importantly, they are great playing instruments. Although, 5 years ago, these were around £1500, at the moment they are about 3-500 more, so a good percentage increase, but not a lot of monetery difference. For example, there's a lovely root beer '78 on ebay now, in the UK, for £1700, great buy. They won't make loads of dough though. If you go to a casino and put £50 on red, and it comes in, you make £50. If you put £1000 on the same red, you make £1000. Same percentage increase, but very different return on investment. If its an investment you're looking at, then the bigger, generally will make more, unless you drop it of course!! Vintage Alembics, great basses, great quality when they were made, and the Series 1's & 2's have been considered collectable for a number of years. The last few years however, has shown major faults that occur long term. I've been interested in these for years, and owned 2, great basses to play. 90% of examples you see now, have laminate issues, particularly on the neck. the multi-layering used, or adhesives, do not appear to stand the test of time. These examples have typically been around the £3k mark for the last 5 years, and have not been appreciating as well as many other brands. Collectors are now being wary of these, because of the quality issues. This has made mint examples rise in value, but I for one, wouldnt buy one anymore, because you could pay £3k for a Series 1, with no issues, only to keep it for 2 years, then it starts delaminating, as many others have experienced. Gibsons, not a favourite among bass collectors, the only 2 basses that really tick the boxes, are original T'Birds ('64-'66). These though are prone to neck breaks, a large percentage of examples out there already have repairs. Those that dont command high money, but again, i personally wouldnt take the chance of paying £6k+, then having a neck break in transit, many collectors feel the same, and these can be difficult to sell, becoming a more and more niche market, shame though, I love them. Early EB2's, particularly the '58-'59 banjo models. These are highly collectible, if in fine condition. They are an acquired taste though, and for every person in the market for one of these, there'll be 50 people willing to spend the same money on a Fender, so reduced market for re-sale should be a factor, if its also for investment purpose. No point buying a rare bass, if no-one wants it. Jaydee, Supernaturals have been hovering around the £1000 mark for 5 years now. I've seen 2 sold this year for less than that. In my opinion, these are the best value instruments out there, look cool, sound amazing, lovely to play, never heard of any defect issues, easy to sell-on. Investment?, not for me, same price for years, which, for a limited quantity bass of this standard has always been a mystery to me, great basses. Best value bass on the market place. Rickenbackers, again, these have been a similar price for a long time, marmite bass, say no more. Most people who want one, already have one. The rarer, more collectible or obscure basses are a very niche market, and can be a problem to shift. Lightshow 4005 anybody?, £20k+, how many buyers are there though for one of them, not many i bet. People said 10 years ago that the vintage fender bubble had burst, and the money had already been made. that was when stack knobs were less than £4k, I know, I sold one, a custom colour too. They are now £15k+++, if you can find one. This is simply not true, and the market is evidence of that. Whilst the 50's originals are out of range of many, people went for 60's examples, now these are out of range, folk are looking at 70's examples, as this is the most affordable way of dipping the toe in the vintage market. Some 70's J's are now fetching £3k. So people will look at other things, like Fullertons, or Dan Smith era, or even early JV's. Whatever new/old collectors revert to, the era's will all shift price wise accordingly. I've bought more basses in the last 5 years than ever, all of them have already appreciated, based on current asking prices. Investments should be considered on 5 years minimum, then have a look, Fenders have appreciated greater than all other brands, consistently every 5 years for the last 30 years, and theres no sign of that stopping. The most important thing, as i said in my first post on this thread though, is quality, make sure you invest in a good 'un. There are many good pre CBS instruments out there, far more than bad ones. 70's is probably the other way round. make sure you're happy with its authenticity, and playability, and that you're paying a fair price, then just [b]enjoy it.[/b]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1348399931' post='1813106'] I don't think Fender cared too much about the wood at the time. It was JUST a material. The weight, mass, density wasn't a concern because there was no precedent at the time. OK so they could have been in a position to be discerning, for example, deliberately selecting old growth ash or alder or maple. But the level of awareness about what specifically makes a good bass wasn't around then. I think they were just taking whatever was available and, so long as it satisfied the expectations of the public at the time, it was good enough. [/quote] I think you should go do some reading, as you seem to have lots to say on a subject that you appear to have little knowledge on You also edit your responses every 5 minutes, I'm guessing, as an administrator, you do realise that people get emailed your original responses don't you? As you said in a previous quote, 80's collectors stuff seems to be your thing, judging by that comment, and your choice of bass, perhaps your level of knowledge lies elsewhere. Nothing personal, I'm just trying to save you from saying something else thats daft, quit while you're only slighty behind i'd say. Just do your homework, thats all I'm trying to say.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1348394509' post='1812992'] You haven't done your research. [/quote] I think you're very wrong there, and probably picked on the wrong chap. Where's the basis for [i]your[/i] argument? Any guitar books will provide all the info you need about Johns statement, you may want to read some.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1348268090' post='1811839'] Will do, looks like a great project. I wish I was able to work with my hands on things like this, as would love to be able to create such an instrument, but have always been hopeless at anything manual. In fact, worse than hopeless. [/quote] Assembling, and a little relic work is not as difficult as it may appear. Practice definitely helps. This is my 4th, and almost certainly last project though, and hopefully I've saved the best 'til last.

[quote name='The Legoheads' timestamp='1348281390' post='1811913'] I now have it wired up and jacked in to the amp. I love the sounds it's putting out and switching and mixing the 2 pickups has some fantastic variations. It sounds nothing like my 4003 save for a common Ric growl. One of the main reasons I made this bass is that I'm a big Stone Roses fan and always loved Mani's bass and his playing. The real weird thing is, it sounds so out of place playing along with anything other than Rose's tunes. It blends really nicely with This is the One, Resurrection, Adored, etc. but when I try to play along to some non-Roses tracks it almost sounds like it's out of tune at times. I was checking the tuning and intonation every few minutes and scratching my head as it was spot on. Guess it's such a different unique sound...? Hopefully I'll post some video soon so you can see what I mean. [/quote] And what's wrong with only playing Roses songs?? I still play them at home more than anything else! I'm contemplating getting a 4005, one's turned up thats rather tempting, and this thread has revitalised my interest. It would be a big improvement to my somewhat ropey Mani-a-like. Your's is just stunning, impressed and jealous is an understatement.

[quote name='Chris Horton' timestamp='1348256792' post='1811615'] What an exciting project ! I shall follow this with Great interest [/quote] Thanks Chris, I'm excited too!

[quote name='Mabrothrax' timestamp='1348261391' post='1811698'] $800?! Ouch! Didn't realise Slabs had a different pickup resistance. Will you be comfortable with a modern 'vintage' pickup though, or are you gonna hold out for the real thing? [/quote] There's no evidence to suggest the pickups were any different to regular pickups of that era. There are some quotes about them being more lively than others, but from the experts view, thats just myth and rumour. Apart from the neck and body, everything else is from c.1966, so I'm hoping to get some original pickups as well, but I'll settle for a modern reissue, while I wait definitely, if the right ones turn up, I'm not paying $800 thats for sure. If the rest of the bass is finished and ready to go, then I'll get something to drop in, so I can play it, and keep hunting for the real mccoy.

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1348254913' post='1811586'] Rick, you're making me feel dreadful. I want you to post nothing until it's finished, then just one small picture and never mention it again!! :-) If I knew how to do it (or had the equipment) I'd measure whatever you measure on pick-ups and give you the readings for the genuine slab pick-up I have in my bass. If you would really find it helpful, tell me what I need to do and I'll try and get it done. That would settle the pick-up question for certain. [/quote] Here's how; I guess putting the reader on the pots would also work. This is the reading I'd expect on the slab pickups, somewhere between 10.5 & 11.5. This particular pick is one of the highest I've seen. These are '66 pickups, but at $800, I'll pass.....and wait!

[quote name='rubis' timestamp='1348248381' post='1811473'] This is fascinating reading, very best of luck with your 'quest' I can totally understand your reasons for starting this project and admire your tenacity Have you seen any of the builds which Gail Yarron has shown on the TDPRI site, he has a similar obsessive nature, particularly in his Les Paul build, but he is a bass player foremost with a particular soft spot for Precisions Here is a link to a list of his build diaries [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/search.php?searchid=7145695"]http://www.tdpri.com...earchid=7145695[/url] thanks for posting this Rick Harry [/quote] Thanks Harry. Yes I've been a fan of his work for some time, although a different league, I'm more an 'assembler' than a maker, I wish I had his skills, time, and patience. I certainly share his obsessive desire for accuracy though.

[quote name='Mabrothrax' timestamp='1348233506' post='1811204'] Lovely stuff so far. There's something about the slab p-bass that makes me all excited. I've got the 'bass culture' book of Entwhistle's collection and the slab bass in there is just gorgeous, made me seriously consider trying to build a slab bass of some sort, perhaps with a 51 body from warmoth. [/quote] Thanks, I agree, there is something about them, not sure what it is, its just a Precision really isnt it, albeit one thats merged into holy grail like status. I can't wait to get it finished.

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1348230682' post='1811156'] Thanks for a great thread! In relation to some of the other posts, I have to say I think what you do is cool. I saw your ad for the '58 replica, and I don't think you could have been any clearer that it wasn't a Fender production bass. Please keep this kind of stuff coming [/quote] Thanks pobrien, appreciate the comments.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1348235653' post='1811232'] That`s more than generous, but knowing how messy the gigs at The Billy can be, I think it`s best (for you certainly) that my own gear gets trashed [/quote] Thats the beauty of Relics though isn't it, especially a thick slab body, it would take some trashing. John Entwistle even makes specific reference in Baz Matthews' book, about the difficulties of smashing a slab precision! Keep watching the thread, and see how progress go's leading up to the gig.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1348227847' post='1811094'] That slab-bass is/will be a beaut, Rick. If you`re ever playing at The King Billy and using it, let me know, I`ll come along, would love to see one of these in real life. [/quote] thanks Lozz. The King Billy!, now, I havent played there for a looong time, brings back memories of some very messy nights!! When I get it finished and set up, and you're playing round this way, let me know, and you can have a borrow of it. It may even be ready for November 10th?? I have a pickup issue at the moment though!?!

[sub]This is a pic of the bridge on an original slab;[/sub] [sub][/sub] [sub]This is the bridge I have, it's from a '67 Precision, it's not as clean as it looks in the picture (Bad photographer), but it's a nice one;[/sub] [sub][/sub]

This is the part that started it all. I saw this advertised about 5 years ago now, as a 1966 Precision Pickguard. I was drawn to it because it was black; the thumbrest screws were beneath the strings; it also had the wide bevelled edge, and slim truss access scoop. I thought it may have come from a real slab, as this style is unique to those. I got it for a silly price anyway, so took the chance. The rest of the bass has basically been built around this, after finally getting it all underway. The shield is perfectly matched, all holes aligned, and definitely came with the guard, as the rust, age rubs etc are the same. It's quite worn, white pretty yellowed, and some screw rust, but I have based the rest of the project on this level of wear, so everything else is getting a medium relic treatment to match.

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1348183788' post='1810703'] I've long wanted to build a slab replica. I doubt it would be as accurate as yours! I have that Barry Matthews book, I was a little sad that it didn't really shed much light on the supposed 'unique' tone these things were suposed to have. It mentioned it several times but didn't really delve into the cause. Still, never mind eh. [/quote] To be honest, whilst I enjoyed the book, and any other bass related book, I was very dissapointed, and thought it was a real missed opportunity. The tone, the finishes, the woods, all the things that make it unique were hardly mentioned. People talk about overwound pickups, higher outputs etc, there is no evidence to suggest any of this, but the book didnt cover it. The pictures are also quite poor. I suppose to make it a bigger, glossier affair, would have cost too much to produce for what would be a fairly limited market, and credit to him for even putting it together, but I was expecting more. I'll be posting some more pics of my project later today.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348181013' post='1810668'] one of these would improve it maybe? [url="http://mosesgraphite.com/productpages/mp-144-p-bass-4/"]http://mosesgraphite...p-144-p-bass-4/[/url] [/quote]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1348143767' post='1809915'] Good work Rick. Will watch this build with interest, looking forward to next installment. [/quote] Thanks Gary.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1348174221' post='1810538'] What is the body wood going to be? Bass Doc, IIRC, reckons the originals were tulip wood. [/quote] I've had conversations with Howard about these, although not specifically the wood. He has a great knowledge. There is no reference to anything other than ash for these slabs. There's also vague referencing to the bodies having blue veins showing through the finish. Baz Matthews though makes no reference in his book to these veins, and thats in a book dedicated solely to these 25 basses, and no word. All the pics I've seen also show white blonde finishes, and no evidence of blue veins. lots of mystery, myth, and legend surrounds these, so I'll take the word of those who have seen all the known examples, studied them, taken them apart, and written about them. Some finishes are thicker than others, more transluscent, some are more solid looking, almost olympic white. Some are heavily yellowed with age, others not. Telecaster basses from '68 are similar though, the logs say they were blonde, but some are also much more transluscent than others, so i guess the wood, and person in the spray shop had a big influence on finish during this period. All formal, informed reference I've seen, states ash, and white blonde, so thats what mine will be.

I'll join in, bought a book from Mal, perfect comms and service, nice one, always recommend folk like this. Nice n' easy. Thanks Mal.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1348170990' post='1810464'] Rick - apologies if I'm mistaken, but I seem to recall that you've advertised a detailed (and lovely) fake relic on BC before, clearly described as a fake - but with no markings on the instrument to make it clear. [/quote] It was a '58 Relic build. It looked right from a distance, but it could never have been mistaken for a real one. The headstock truss rod walnut cap was the elongated one, found on modern reissues, and never the originals. The tuners were modern reissues, the body had a different control cavity routing, the finish was poly, all parts were modern reissues, pots and wiring also. To anybody who would be likely to buy one, they'd know as soon as they opened the case, let alone taking it apart. That particular instrument didnt need any REPLICA note burnt into it, any more than a modern reissue doesnt. I accept some people will have issues with it, but it's my project. I have no problem with others opinions on it though, although it does seem to be dominating the thread!!

[quote name='Who's Who' timestamp='1348166476' post='1810368'] Looks awesome Rick. If it's even a patch on that '54 Replica Precision you did it will be an absolute gem. Can't wait to see the finished product. [/quote] Thanks man, I hope to improve with every step, so I'm hoping this will be the best I've done, I have mostly original '66 accessories too, which will be nice. Can't wait to get it done now.