Rick's Fine '52

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348181013' post='1810668'] one of these would improve it maybe? [url="http://mosesgraphite.com/productpages/mp-144-p-bass-4/"]http://mosesgraphite...p-144-p-bass-4/[/url] [/quote]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1348143767' post='1809915'] Good work Rick. Will watch this build with interest, looking forward to next installment. [/quote] Thanks Gary.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1348174221' post='1810538'] What is the body wood going to be? Bass Doc, IIRC, reckons the originals were tulip wood. [/quote] I've had conversations with Howard about these, although not specifically the wood. He has a great knowledge. There is no reference to anything other than ash for these slabs. There's also vague referencing to the bodies having blue veins showing through the finish. Baz Matthews though makes no reference in his book to these veins, and thats in a book dedicated solely to these 25 basses, and no word. All the pics I've seen also show white blonde finishes, and no evidence of blue veins. lots of mystery, myth, and legend surrounds these, so I'll take the word of those who have seen all the known examples, studied them, taken them apart, and written about them. Some finishes are thicker than others, more transluscent, some are more solid looking, almost olympic white. Some are heavily yellowed with age, others not. Telecaster basses from '68 are similar though, the logs say they were blonde, but some are also much more transluscent than others, so i guess the wood, and person in the spray shop had a big influence on finish during this period. All formal, informed reference I've seen, states ash, and white blonde, so thats what mine will be.

I'll join in, bought a book from Mal, perfect comms and service, nice one, always recommend folk like this. Nice n' easy. Thanks Mal.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1348170990' post='1810464'] Rick - apologies if I'm mistaken, but I seem to recall that you've advertised a detailed (and lovely) fake relic on BC before, clearly described as a fake - but with no markings on the instrument to make it clear. [/quote] It was a '58 Relic build. It looked right from a distance, but it could never have been mistaken for a real one. The headstock truss rod walnut cap was the elongated one, found on modern reissues, and never the originals. The tuners were modern reissues, the body had a different control cavity routing, the finish was poly, all parts were modern reissues, pots and wiring also. To anybody who would be likely to buy one, they'd know as soon as they opened the case, let alone taking it apart. That particular instrument didnt need any REPLICA note burnt into it, any more than a modern reissue doesnt. I accept some people will have issues with it, but it's my project. I have no problem with others opinions on it though, although it does seem to be dominating the thread!!

[quote name='Who's Who' timestamp='1348166476' post='1810368'] Looks awesome Rick. If it's even a patch on that '54 Replica Precision you did it will be an absolute gem. Can't wait to see the finished product. [/quote] Thanks man, I hope to improve with every step, so I'm hoping this will be the best I've done, I have mostly original '66 accessories too, which will be nice. Can't wait to get it done now.

[quote name='Johnnysonic' timestamp='1348154372' post='1810122'] [attachment=118902:IMG_3244.JPG] The P Bass is nice - an early '63. [/quote] Stunning example.

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1348151164' post='1810064'] Hi Rick, Interesting comments - don't get me wrong, I am enjoying watching your build (and others) and wish I had the patience and skills to do something like this myself, This is borne out by my own attempt at modifying a bass which is still sitting there nearly 4 years later! I understand what you say about replica v fake, and applaud you if you do burn replica into the neck should it ever be sold. Again none of this is criticism, I'm just typing questions out loud whilst trying to get my head around it. I thought this might be an interesting point of discussion to see what people thought - perhaps I should start another thread instead of hijacking your build (apologies about that). [/quote] I'm not going to argue with a man with huge hands!! I welcome all comments anyway, I knew [i]that [/i]picture would stoke some debate though, so I can't ignore the comments it raises. The subject has been covered elsewhere though. If I sold it, I would be sure to make it obviously a fake anyway, as there [i]are[/i] unsavoury folk out there. Trust me though, it's not [i]that[/i] accurate. This is simply my little indulgence.

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1348148395' post='1810017'] I'm sorry, but I don't get it. I can understand wanting to make the finish look vintage and look the part from the casual viewer's eye, but why go so far as to fake the date stamps? Even if you're honest and sell with a big REPLICA in your advert, what's to stop the buyer passing it off to someone else as an original? You say it's obvious, but to my untrained eye on your photos, the date stamp looks fairly genuine, even if it is straighter than most I've seen. I would have thought fans of the range would want to stamp out fakes out there on the market? Please note I'm not trying to slag you off or be nasty, each to their own. I'm just interested in discussing the chain of thought that goes into this. [/quote] Happy to receive your comments. It's a personal thing, I like to make things as accurate as possible, I enjoy the search and build process, this is my 4th one, and each time I've made them more accurate. It's [i]my[/i] bass, for [i]my [/i]use. If I sold it, I would burn REPLICA into the neck heel anyway. Besides this, [i]you[/i] may think it looks right, but there are several obvious things on the neck itself that show immediately it isn't real. Anyone spending around £10k on an instrument would spot these details from 10metres away, let alone during close inspection, so in reality, it wouldn't be an issue. Theres a big difference between fakes and replicas. Fakes are pretty easy to spot generally. I have no issue with someone making a good copy for themselves. I'm sure there are lots out there, I just show mine on here, because as a bass player/fan/collector etc, I love to see these kind of projects, especially on rare instruments like the one I'm replicating here. I'm not flogging it as a no-returns policy sale only. Not me, and it will be very much de-flocked if i ever decided to sell.

[quote name='Johnnysonic' timestamp='1348148780' post='1810023'] I simply don't agree. I have been collecting and writing about vintage Fender basses for over 30 years. A chunk of my collection is in the Fender Golden Age Book by Foster and Kelly, and I have owned pre CBS basses in almost all the colours (Sonic Blue, Fiesta Red, Burgundy Mist etc), and never in that time have I heard anything negative from collectors about Black. Quite the reverse in fact. Black is super hard to find, and few people have seen real ones. I'm not sure I would take the experience of a '68 Tele Bass as a guide, as few people are looking for those in any custom colour, let alone Black. We really must inhabit different universes! Johnny [/quote] I've not said anything negative about black, and have said all along that it's a very rare custom colour. I just haven't come across anyone that wanted one, or considered them desirable when compared with other rare custom colours. Thats my experience, as your comment is yours.

Here's the last 3 pics of the finished neck;

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1348144538' post='1809938'] Very interested in this project, as a previous owner of one of these (would love to have recorded the serial number to see if it's on your list). Are there 2 at V'n'R now or are those the most recent 'sightings'? Steve [/quote] Thanks Steve. The 2 at V&R are long gone, they are an extract from the book that is around 5 years old I think?

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1348142928' post='1809900'] The black issue is in contrast to the situation now where (apparently) the most popular colours in terms of sales are black and sunburst. [/quote] Don't get me wrong, it's an era thing. 70's black precisions are desirable, maybe because lots of famous players in the 70's used them, but pre-CBS wise, it's just a no-go. It is strange, but thats the way it is. Nowadays, I'm sure black is as common as anything, you certainly see alot around, either being played, or for sale etc. Its just a pre-CBS vintage thingy.

[font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]OK, I’ve been after a ’66 Slab Precision for some time now, and despite my best efforts, it’s never materialised. I’ve made (assembled/modded) a few replica vintage basses before, which some of you may have seen on here, and decided, a couple of years ago now, to make a replica slab, after picking up an original pickguard some time back. The project was put on hold, for many reasons, not least, finding a maple neck C shape neck. I resurrected the Project around April this year, and obtained many of the parts needed. The project then stopped again, after I became aware of a real slab, and hoped to secure that, alas, this week, that will no longer happen. This is what I’ll be building;[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Every day, I will add to this post, showing the components and parts I’ve obtained. I’ve tried to source as many genuine ’66 parts as possible for the Project.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]This is a list of known examples still around today, as contained within Baz Matthews book;[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]I’ve decided, as there are two sequential numbers contained in the list, that my replica, is going to be F131285, with a neck date of April ’66, and pot codes of 6609. Please note that this is for my benefit only, as a fan/collector, I like the challenge of replicating as best I can. If the guitar gets sold, it will clearly marked as a replica. In any case, it’s pretty obvious, and wouldn’t fool anyone![/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]So, onto the Project. I was only going to take on this project, if I could get a proper C profile, maple-cap neck, with a vintage correct truss rod detail, and they are not easy to source. After much trawling, I found that the Mexican Roger Waters signature bass has one of these. I purchased one of these, and sold off the rest of the bass, and just kept the bear neck. Here’s the pics;[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]The neck was then completely stripped to the wood, frets dressed (They were quite high, and sharp, not the best quality), and are now low and smooth; fingerboard edges rolled, the whole neck was given an amber nitro tint, lightly aged, and a ’66 decal applied. An original ’65 string tree was added, along with the 5 APR 66 C neck stamp (As close as I could get anyway). The only thing left to do, are the tuner relief holes in the back of the headstock, which I’ve not been brave enough to attempt….yet, here’s the finished neck pics;[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][url="http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/rosesguitar_2007/Slab/neckafter6_zpsa4b3457f.jpg"]http://i208.photobuc...zpsa4b3457f.jpg[/url][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][url="http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/rosesguitar_2007/Slab/neckafter5_zpsc0392015.jpg"]http://i208.photobuc...zpsc0392015.jpg[/url][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000][url="http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/rosesguitar_2007/Slab/neckafter7_zpsbb819b97.jpg"]http://i208.photobuc...zpsbb819b97.jpg[/url][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000](The last 3 pics wouldn't load on??, so please click on the 3 links above)[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]More progress and pics to follow tomorrow, where I’ll be adding pics of the pickguard, shield, neckplate, bridge, and pots.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Any comments, advice would be appreciated.[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Thanks for looking[/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana][size=3][color=#000000]Rick[/color][/size][/font]

[quote name='Johnnysonic' timestamp='1348133976' post='1809679'] What do you base this comment on??!! Black is an extremeley rare colour in the Pre CBS period, so much so that you hardly ever see them. I would agree that a Black P or Jazz wouldn't be as desirable as Shoreline Gold or Sonic Blue, they are sought after, and just as rare. I can think of only one Black pre CBS bass for sale in the world right now - at New Kings Road - and I'm sure many collectors wopuld give their eye-teeth for it. Johnny [/quote] The comment is based on years of collecting specifically Fender Basses, and interaction, communication etc with fellow collectors. Everyone I know, or have come across, agree that black basses, are not desirable, compared with other finishes. Especially the matched headstock ones. They are a rare custom colour, no doubting that, which i said, just not desirable in basses, guitars are very different though, black strats are sought after, possibly down to a certain Mr Clapton? I even know collectors who only collect custom colours, and they dont have black ones, as they say they'd rather keep the money for a different one. There's a guy in the US who has been trying to sell a black '68 telecaster bass for years, no-one wants it, because it's odd, yes it's rare, but it's just not 'right'. I don't make these rules or trends, this is just how it is. Ask anyone, I'm pretty certain you'd get a similar response. Thats just the way it is. Simlar thing with Ricks, burgundyglo is probably the rarer of the standard range of colours, but not very desirable, an acquired taste if you like. For every person who loves it, there'll be 50 who don't, whereas a mapleglo or fireglo is the other way round.

[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1348097857' post='1809430'] Don't hold your breath waiting for RIC to "reissue" or take up production again of the model. Mr. JH doesn't seem to care for them, as he has compared the appearance of the upper bout to a certain active appendage of [i]Equus asinus,[/i] with the reference taking the vernacular tone in the present participle tense. [/quote] Yes, I've seen letters from JH saying that whilst he appreciates a certain demand for many of their instruments, including the 4005, he doesnt expect it to make production again. Shame, but nevermind.

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1348078691' post='1809037'] I always preferred the slash hole anyway TBH..... [/quote] Me too, I was just curious as to this model, as I hadnt seen it before.

[quote name='Pow_22' timestamp='1348082737' post='1809117'] Theres a 4005 for sale over on Andy Baxter bass at the moment, my dream bass but beyong my current price range [/quote] I know, thats what prompted my research again in the first place, I think its a good price, and am considering it, I'm searching around to see what else is out there, when i stumbled across the f-hole version.

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1348063614' post='1808723'] Couldn't you take a slash hole and then carve it into an f-hole? Or would that change the sound ... [/quote] You could probably do the other way round, but the f-hole is much slimmer i think. I'm sure you wouldnt want to start butchering a £7k+ bass anyway!!

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348060167' post='1808642'] So, don't be afraid to make a [b][i]very[/i][/b] cheeky offer! [/quote] Oh, I would definitely advise this. I know most of the vintage dealers, and they know when i call about something, it will start with a very silly offer, normally a sensible meet in the middle is found. remember, with the rarer stuff, particularly stuff that hasnt shown itself for a while, there's no real benchmark, and I dont begrudge dealers starting off punting things highly, they also know this, so start silly, and go from there. Ultimately, they hold the cards, and will keep saying no until, unsurprisingly, they say yes, which is hopefully at a point the buyer is also happy with. I also find a pile of cash on their counter in elastic bands can also be a very large pursuader, especially on a Friday lunchtime after they've had a sh*t week of sales!! Play them at their own game! And it [i]is[/i] a buyers market out there at the moment.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1348044229' post='1808363'] I think the days of snaffling pre-1975 bargains are over. I did OK with my current crop, and past purchases, as I bought them at very reasonable prices. We've seen the prices of early 80's buyout-era basses rise a fair bit... my guess is the longhorns will be the next to bump up a bit. That said, vintage stuff holds its' value better then most band-new basses. New car syndrome, innit. If you want to buy a bass as an investment, be prepared to hang on to it for a VERY long time. [/quote] Vintage stuff still appreciates though. I bought my '58 gold guard P, from a very famous denmark street dealer (The good one), in 2003, and its advertised price was £2500, i traded another vintage bass for it, but that was the price, the full on, ticket price in the most expensive vintage guitar street in the UK, and it was £2500!, i remember it was the going rate at the time, and i had it, because it was the first one i'd ever seen for sale in the UK, since I'd started collecting, so snapped it up. Its now worth upwards of 3x that. A boutique bass bought in 2003 certainly wouldnt be. My point is, they climb steadily, you dont have to wait yonks, obviosuly the longer you wait, the more it would appreciate, but 5 years would see you make money for sure, and have had 5 years owning and playing a great bass. certainly better than money in the bank at 0% interest, and what fun is that.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1348045320' post='1808378'] Yeah. Now that everyone has internet access it's dead easy to do a quick google search to see that the bass that languished in Grandad's attic for decades actually has a value... and put yourself in touch with buyers. The days of turning up bargains in car boot sales and house-clearance shops would appear to have gone. Most of the really collectable instruments have already found homes. [/quote] I think there's a a lot of truth in this, the internet certainly makes things alot more accessible to the wider public. I remember scouring music press mags years ago, and guitar mags, you'd see a great private ad for something spectacular, phone them up, only to find he'd sold it the first day of the mag going to print (Or even before, to someone who worked at the mag, which was often the case!), and had received 50 calls since. It was very much a case of first come first served in those days, now its a nice 10 day auction, for the whole world to see, very different game indeed. You can still find them though. last year I bought a '66 Vox Foundation Head and 2x15 matched cab, with the chrome head stand, it was on gumtree for £250, i bought, paid and collected it the same day, sold it a week later, as i didnt have the space to keep it, for £1100. I'm sure many of us still have recent stories like that (Another thread please! ), but just to say, it can happen, but yes, these opportunities are few and far between.

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1348046538' post='1808408'] . [/quote] BTW, I love that colour with the white guard, beautiful. Is it the same colour under the guard, or is it a very aged Oly white?

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1348046538' post='1808408'] I'm interested to read what Rick says about the '82' Fullertons. I have an 84 precision that would go along with the strat in the picture. I have another precision which is an 83. They are the USA standard offering of the time. I like them for the looks but also for the quality of the instrument. The 82-85 standard series also seemed to me to have their own character as opposed to being a reissue of a former model. It would be nice to think that they will rise in value but I bought them as playing instruments and not as investments. [/quote] I think the Fullertons have more appeal, because they are pretty good reissues of vintage instruments, and folk will always be lured to vintage gear. If the pre-CBS stuff is out of price range, but you still want something that is great to look at, play, and will hold value, or most likely increase, then the Fullertons are what people will, and are, naturally turning to, hence the price rise. The Dan Smith era '82+ standard range, are still great guitars, but the headstock decal style alone, puts many off, as the masses, i beleive, prefer the vintage look. They are great playing guitars though, and probably a very good buy at the price.