Andyjr1515

I've got on well today. Pleased with that because I now know what is there and that gives plenty of time for Bryan and I to talk through the options, and maybe try a few things, before committing how best to finish. Basically, got the main stripping completed. Still lots and lots of sanding to do to get rid of the in-grained black but no surprises from this point on. The top is as I suspected - veneer, cross grain and not covering the arm rest: The underlying wood (maybe alder, maybe basswood) is made up of four sections of differing widths. You might be able to see some of them here: The one to the right of the straplock hole is quite a bit narrower than the other three. Again, like one of the pieces you can see at the back, the unstained shade of that narrow one is quite different, as you can see at the armrest: The back will be fine as is - I usually do the back and sides in a darker shade of the top colour so it will be fine either with the manufacturer's veneer left in place or sanded off (the veneer for this kind of construction doesn't have any massive strength addition). For the front, these are the options I'll talk through with Bryan (and as I say, some of these can be tried out to see how they come out):[list] [*]Leave as is and just stain. The top will be fairly even looking other than the armrest area, but the grain will be going the 'wrong' way. [*]Remove the manufacturer's veneer. All the grain will be going the 'right' way, but there will be some shade variations for each of the four sections making up the body. [*]Apply a veneer to the top and then stain. [/list] I'll PM Bryan and we'll knock the options around. In the meantime, I've got plenty to do getting the neck looking a bit more tip-top Thanks for looking Andy

Yes - I reckon it was simply an intention to make it gloss. I suspect whoever didn't think to just polish it or just use clear lacquer - hence the black lacquer (there are bits everywhere now in my study!) and then the need to mask off the logo and serial number. We've all done similar things in our past I'm sure... So a bit of the real job this morning. It's been dry so I thought I'd take advantage and start the body strip to see what's under there. I always start at the back! The tools I use are simple - heatgun and scraper: The blue is, I think, car paint spray, and with a bit of heat came off easily, leaving the original lacquer underneath. Again, with some heat applied, the lacquer came of reasonably easily, revealing the black underneath. The lacquer is mercifully thin...on some basses this bit of the job is very, very tough: So - what was going to be underneath it. I talked through with Bryan the possibilities of what we might find when he dropped the bass off...of which I forgot about this one... This is a bit odd, I thought, the grain's in the wrong direction. Plywood perhaps? Although it didn't feel heavy enough to be ply : There's actually nothing wrong with plywood (although, it does make for interesting challenges when you are trying to do a trans refinish!). This Epiphone LP Junior has the best tone of any of the guitars I have ever owned for 'that' tone. It's plywood: Anyway, back to the Thunder Jet - the quickest way of finding out is to strip a bit of the sides. Ahah! All is revealed: It's a technique that is used by a number of manufacturers for their entry-level guitars. I have seen it before on some Squiers. It is a quick way of getting a smooth and even finish for spraying without having to fill the body section joins. It will be the same, I am sure, on the top. The challenge (but as always, there are ways around) is that, clearly where the cutouts and arm-relief is, the veneer is cut away and as such there is a change of colour and texture. You can see it here, and also, you can see - at the very top of the curve - the additional colour difference of one of the body sections against the other. It's quite yellow: Anyway - better get back to it before the weather goes off! Thanks for looking Andy

[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1412954106' post='2573647'] You have the same sort of self control as I do! (Which reminds me, I should be working rather than reading about this!) I think the Thunder Jets came with a black neck, can you see where Mr Bodgejob's dodgy headstock finish ends on the back of the headstock? [/quote] Hi, Bryan I had 'another cup of coffee'... The initial scraping was with my thumbnail. Over the second cup of coffee, I got a much more effective non-scratch scraper out - a Dunlop 0.6mm pick (don't you just love the zen potential?) 10 mins and I've got this far: There's still a bit of varnish over the logo and the varnish is tougher around the neck area but I am pretty sure the whole neck has been repainted as well as revarnished. Certainly it was originally a black neck - otherwise the back of the headstock wouldn't be black. It might be just clear varnished at the neck but then why would they use black over the existing headstock? The stuff I've scraped off the headstock is definitely either black or clear over black. I'm not intending to take the neck down much beyond creating a decent key for the recoating, or just a smooth wire-wooled finish if you prefer that. We can discuss more as it progresses and either way, the transition from headstock to neck will look OK I'm quite happy with this so far. Andy

Trouble is, she's there, looking at me like a seductress. Hang it - I've done 50 pages of the report... ...so over a cup of coffee, I've just had a scrape at the back and front of the headstock to see what's under the crud. Mainly good news...I think. As suspected, the black and varnish is just over the original headstock. Why? - not sure other than maybe because a previous owner was painting the neck black and wanted it to match? The weird thing is that they clearly either masked off the logo or coated it all then scraped it off that area, but in doing so, scored some deep cuts around it (and a few random ones around it). The good news is that the logo is fine - protected by the thick original varnish: You can see the deep scalpel or knife scores in this shot here: No big problem. The original varnish on Westones is thick enough for this to be able to be sanded down safely past the score mark depth. The serial number area is even better. This: ...is hiding this: I THINK that the crack you can see down the headstock is in the original varnish only - certainly there is no sign of a crack when you look at the top of the headstock where the paint has come off. You never know - there maybe some horrors the previous owner was trying to cover up , but I think it unlikely...and it's looking better already . Ooops - coffee break over. Back on our heads Andy

Thanks, Bryan and all! I'm quite excited by this project (as I am with all of these types of project). I am plowing my way through writing a 72 page report at the moment for the day job...the downside of the overseas trips... but hopefully this evening I'll be able to start have a closer look at what we've got. Bryan's and my view when we were looking at the headstock yesterday evening, is that the original headstock is probably behind the added gunk. In a 'safe' spot, I'll scrape a little off with a one-sided razor blade and see and see what condition it's in. The body will have to wait for the weekend...it usually involves a heatgun and lots of smells that Mrs Rogers, for some inexplicable reason, seems to object to in the house! I will, nevertheless, be able to strip the bass down ready to start. Bryan and I talked quite a bit about his colour preference and there's some ink that is a possibility of being the right shade already on order I'll keep everyone updated (but don't hold your breath time-wise ) Andy p.s - Yes 'Bryan' is easier...tthere's a llott of ll's and tt's in tthatt tthere user name of yours, Allighatt0r!

There I was, just six months ago, blissfully ignorant that there ever was a make called Westone... and now... ...after Chris Sharman's Thunder III fretless, then PaulS's Pantera, I have just been commissioned by Allighatt0r to spruce up his Westone Thunder Jet! I'm flattered, fellas...thanks Allighatt0r dropped in this evening (how you can 'drop in' to Derby when you live in Mildenhall is a complete other story) with the Thunder Jet which he has just left in my clutches and is happy for me to do a 'live' refurb thread. As Chris and Paul already know, this may take some time... But, if it is of interest to any of you, I suggest you pop a, let's say monthly, reminder in your diaries to have a look to see if there's any progress and more to the point whether that progress is the 'good' kind of progress Only kidding, Allighatt0r! It'll be fine...just fine When the little beauty first came out of the bag, it looked pretty good: They really are nice basses, aren't they. A closer look revealed a few issues which has prompted Allighatt0r to bring it to me. The body has been resprayed in the past by persons unknown. What we do know is that they weren't all that great at spraying: Something distinctly odd has also been done with the headstock: The top of the headstock has shed both its varnish and its black paint: Luckily, Allighatt0r is not a purist...if he was, I don't think he would have come my way What he wants is:[list] [*]For it to look better [*]The body covering to be stripped down to the wood and, depending on what we find under the coating, stained moss green, then a light varnish recoat. I showed him some of the finishes on my guitars and basses and he favours a tru-oil finish [*]Black pickguard to a particular shape...this will have to be cut from a blank [*]Replacement of the jack socket [/list] Along the way, I will tidy up the neck, re-crown a few worn frets and polish the rest. I had the same conversation as I'd had with Chris and Paul ("the way I do the finishing can, in my opinion, never match a professional spray job", etc, etc) but Allighatt0r refused to be put off. So I'd better source some moss green ink, then... I'll let you all know how I get on with it... Thank you, Allighatt0r for the project and, in advance, for your patience Andy

I have to say, that's what I would use (in the US they call it naptha) but wait until you've had some more answers before you do just in case someone posts 'DONT USE THAT!!!!!'

[quote name='scoobystig' timestamp='1412800436' post='2572285'] I play a lyte as my main bass and love its tone I must admit I have never struggled for high end clarity I have the action on mine as low as possible, volume right up and all the other 3 pots centred, tweak on the amp to suit the venue and we are away It's mainly rock we play so a good thump is required, but I also play some of the chilli peepers stuff so the higher clarity is needed [/quote] Just as a matter of interest, do you play with the neck pickup only or do you mix in some bridge?

I love the look of this - all of it!

[quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1412779451' post='2571957'] Interesting idea: with the toggle in the middle I get equal parts of both, which is not what I'm after. Maybe I need a 5 way so can 'favour' the neck over the bridge. [/quote] Is there not a separate volume pot for each p/up? If there is, then just go for middle position on the 3-way and turn the P bass volume right up and the J p/up right down. If you only have provision for one pot, maybe use a stacked pot?

[quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1412776442' post='2571913'] Gosh, that's pretty.... It does indeed have a jazz bridge pickup and I've left the original in, as I don't really use it. However, I'm after a pure P bass tone which is why I installed the toggle switch so that when it's in the appropriate position, it's effectively the same electronics. I should put up some pics to clarify things, I think. [/quote] Thanks - it's amazing what you can do with a bit of veneer and a can of Ronseal The problem with tone is the number of things that can affect it. There is no guarantee if you did pop your JV P bass pickup into the Lyte that it would sound the same as in your JV. It is, having said that, a very low risk that, if you did try it and put it back into the JV again, that it would beggar anything up in the JV - so, maybe worth a try. The only reason I suggest trying the inclusion of a bit of the Jazz pickup is that you have all of the electronics you need, with the 3-way you've fitted, and a tiny bit of the jazz p/up WILL add high end clarity. If my Jaguar is anything to go by, it doesn't seem to suck any tone out of the P p/up. Certainly worth a try before taking the JV apart...you can always disconnect it again if it does affect the tone even when the jazz p/up is turned right down (there are also the Fender pots you can get that bypass completely at zero - are they call zero tone pots?) Just a thought Andy

Hi, Sharkfinger I'm assuming it has a jazz bridge pickup slot like PaulS's? If so, I would have thought the easiest and most riskless way would be to buy a budget jazz bridge pickup and wire it in using the two volumes for a blend. Have the P pickup on full volume and wind in the bridge until it sounds how you want it. That's what I do with my Squier VM Jaguar:

[quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1412771801' post='2571830'] Probably a bit too late but keep an eye on ebay. The necks for these frequently come up and IIRC, they did black ones as well. They all had matching headstocks. Getting decals and redoing the 'Lyte' writing on the headstock will be a pain, I imagine. [/quote] It's OK I didn't take Paul's bait that time...I, too, was bothered by the potential loss of the logo. Didn't know they did black necks - a good lead from Sharkfinger, Paul? Andy

[quote name='JamieMillsBass' timestamp='1412758688' post='2571608'] Put the black on first? I was under the impression that if I bought stain black Poly, that was all I needed to put on, can you clarify the above a little? It looks like I have some more reading to do, not sure I even understand the basic fundamentals yet! [/quote] Very difficult to get the right finish AND colour using an all in one varnish. Also, a lacquer/varnish over the black (probably less so with satin, but certainly with gloss), that is built up to an acceptable thickness, adds considerable depth to the colour (even on black!).

1. Yes 2. Yes 3. I use Ronseal Hardglaze matt (not tried satin but they do that too). I thin it down c 30% with white spirit and wipe it on using a standard microfibre cloth (£3-£4 in homebase or sainsburys for a pack of 4), using very thin coats so I don't end up with 'brush' lines. I leave it to fully dry, then flatten it with wet n dry, then give it a final couple more very thin coats. As brensabre79 says, matt and silk still shows imperfections so you need to make sure the finish - before varnishing - is tickety-boo. Albeit it is a gloss finish,[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/244071-fender-precision-lyte-body-refinish/"] I show how I go about it on this thread [/url] This was PaulS's Precision Lyte body. Hope this helps Andy

[quote name='alittlebitrobot' timestamp='1412695293' post='2571090'] Then: (photo from google, not my own) Now: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/246086-dr-frankensteins-westone/page__view__findpost__p__2562958"]I have a process post in the Build Diaries sub.[/url] [/quote] Lovely job. :-)

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1412676338' post='2570889'] With the strings at normal (standard tuning) tension are you sure the neck is completely flat? If you hold a string down at the first and last frets (or use a straight edge) is there no gap whatsoever between the string and all frets? I'd expect with normal relief you'd see a gap of a bit less than 0.5mm at around the 8th/9th frets. The reason I ask is that you usually get fret buzz at the dusty end of the neck (as you're experiencing) when there's slightly too much relief in the neck rather than too little. [/quote] I agree with Howiebass on this one. Hold down the first fret, hold down the 16 th fret (you may need a friend!) and tap the E or G string at the 8th fret. There should be small but perceptible movement. If it's more than a credit card thickness, tighten the truss rod accordingly. If it is hard down against the 8th fret, you may need to 'induce' a bit of relief if the rod is fully slackened off. As Howiebass says though, the symptoms indicate too much relief rather than too little.

Love it ! I just LOVE it!!!

I agree - I would use thin cyano (superglue) for this kind of thing. As the guy on the video says, you have to be quite careful and it does dry VERY hard so not overfilling too much is important because, while trying to scrape or sand off the excess, it is easy to add another gouge in the untreated poly.

Hi, Weststarx I'm flattered by Paul S and Manton Customs' endorsements (thanks, guys - really, really appreciated!) but original-colour-matched spray jobs are not really my forte. Paul's Precision Lyte was black - giving me the freedom to use paints, lacquers and techniques I knew would be compatible - and he bravely accepted all of my list of things that might not be quite the same as a quality spray job. It is very much on my 'to-do' list to experiment on one of my own guitars (part of my ethos is not to experiment or learn on someone else's pride and joy - I would always try it one of my own first), but haven't got round to it. The reason it needs checking is that most true fender original-colour-matched sprays are nitro-methane, which are notoriously incompatible with some other products and I wouldn't like to find I had some incompatibility on someone else's bass Now, talking about professional spray jobs, Manton Customs produce some fantastic results so, apart from the distance, they would be a good call. Ref the distance - is that such a problem? Are you confident taking a neck off and the scratchplate off? If so, there's not much that even a poor courier firm could break if you sent the body only to Manton or another re-finisher... Hope this helps Andy

Looks stupendous, Wil. Great job!

[quote name='thefyst' timestamp='1410886539' post='2554350'] Not that I know much about these things ...but.... Wouldn't the lacquer scuff and deteriorate pretty quickly with the strings rubbing on it all the time? [/quote] I'm assuming it's a fretted bass, Colonel36? If so, the strings shouldn't touch the fretboard itself much at all. Andy

I'm sure it wouldn't affect the sound at all. Depending how well it's done, it might affect the feel.

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1410728449' post='2552538'] Thanks, cachao. Both of the recent Westones I've done have come out great...they were really top notch basses. Andy [/quote] Except - as I've only just realised - the other Westone isn't yet on my website ! The basschat thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/243975-westone-pantera-x790-headstock-refurb/"]can be found here[/url]

[quote name='cachao' timestamp='1410727956' post='2552528'] Thanks for that, Andy. Just had a look at your site. That Westone is gorgeous. [/quote] Thanks, cachao. Both of the recent Westones I've done have come out great...they were really top notch basses. Andy