Bilbo

Flat Five - the Addams Family door bell or MAris from West Side Story Flat Seven - Star Trek Sixth - Inchworm or My Way Third - Stardust (OK a bit obscure for most here but it strikes a chord with me) Minor third - Smoke on the Water

I think the argument that one would rather see a tribute band in a pub/small venue than the real thing in an aircraft hanger with a bad sound etc is compelling but, in my idealistic little brain, it does amount to two wrongs not making a right. It is, as everything is, horses for courses and there will always be those who want to recapture some halcyon days or be satisfied with a bastard version of the things they missed because they were born too late. I would always rather see something fresh and original than people reproducing the greats of yesteryear. That applies to Jazz bands and classical stuff as much as it does Rock and Pop etc and agree that there are a million s*** Jazz bands regurgitating the increasingly tedious American Songbook (I have also recently heard of a Pat Metheny tribute band and a Steve Swallow tribute band - talk about missing the point). Mingus tributes, Miles tributes, Coltrane tributes, Jazz Messangers tributes etc all get the same cold shoulder from me. I rarely buy cds that amount to collections of standards, indeed any standards on a Jazz cd at all really puts me off parting with my hard earned. It always looks lazy to me. But, in short, noone gives a rat's arse what I think and why should they? In terms of the music industry, there will always be the desire to earn money, to gain attention, to travel the world or to have a good time, all of which would probably be more readily served by tribute bands than by investing anything original. In short, its low input/high return stuff. Its the MacDonaldsisation of music. Its is only a matter of time before major acts start selling franchises to anyone who wants to do a tribute. I wonder how many tribute acts would exist if they had to wear this?

Personally, I think Swing, in Jazz, comes as much from your tone as it does your note choice. If you listen to the most swingingest bass players (Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Wilbur Ware, Reginald Veal, Charlie Haden etc), they have generally quite warm/round tones whereas, if you listen to, say, Eddie Gomez, Miroslav Vitous etc (even Ron Carter) (who are all great players but whose tone is less full and rounded), the Swing element is not so obvious and less complelling. In electric bass players in Jazz, this is even more pronounced. The only great swingers on electric are Steve Swallow and Anthony Jackson and maybe Jaco on a good day but a lot of the electric guys don't swing because their tones are unsympathetic to the idea. Swallow's tone has a similar feel to an acoustic nylon string guitar; quiete loose compared to a generic electric tone. Six string players have a better chance as the lower notes are more in tune with the swing ethos but, in a nutshell, if you really want to swing, it is a LOT harder on the electric.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1346600680' post='1791041'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Rhythm Changes - Think the Flintstones theme.[/font][/color] [/quote] Or just think 'i Got Rhythm'

The walking bass part is easy enough, its soloing that offers the headaches. It is increadibly difficult to do anything meaningful with those changes at that tempo and a lot of people hold the view that Coltrane's later modal/free work came about as a result of the realisation that the complex changes of a tune like Giant Steps etc is a creative 'dead end'. Whenever I hear it played by anyone, I just get angry at the ethos of 'ooooh, look at me playing Giant Steps' and the general lack of emotionally satisfying content. Playing it is 7 etc is just juggling/a circus act and doesn't impress me on bit. Personally, I can't play it. I have tried and find it impossible to do anything that doesn't sound like a series of exercises. If I ever find a way round these changes that works for me, I will post it here. Don't wait up

You need to be careful where you go with all of this. I am appalled that Justiin Bieber can fill stadium after stadium but Charles Mingus occasionally played to empty rooms in his home town. Put on Shakespeare and you will attract 100 people whilst a really bad local football team can attract 5,000. Put on John Scofield in Cardiff and you won't fill a pub but put on a Thin Lizzy tribute band and you can call it a festival with 8,000 people. If you do it for the music, you will always win. If you do it for the audience, you are probably going to be disappointed more often than not (it is refreshing for us old jazzers to know that we can now attract an audience that competes with a rock band. My biggest ever audience (4,000) was a jazz band whilst my smallest (3) was a rock band that had a session played on Radio One).

Cycle of Fifths. Blues changes. Diatonic major and melodic minor chord scales Giant Steps That covers pretty much everything

I am hearing more ideas this time and the solo is better for it. Would be helpful if you recorded the heads as well so people have a reference point. I know 'Tune Up' but many won't so won't have a frame of reference.

Yes.

THey are all ok, nothing too tough. Just have a listen to them and get a feel for it with a chart in front of you.

They won't help much. Charts like these are played 'in the style of' and not 'the same as the original'. If you play the bass lines off a notated chart, you may find the other musicians playing something that doesn't resemble the original and your lines won't work and may even clash horribly. You would be better off getting charts with the chords and then learning the basic rhythm patterns (swing, rhumba etc). I have played all of these tunes and rarely the same twice. The first too are easy ballad/torch songs, just stick with the root notes and follow the piano. Mack is a straight swing groove and Sway is a rhumba (think the first bar of a 3:2 clave) but will depend on what the drummer is doing. I don't recall what King oF the Road sounds like rhythm section-wise.

I think a lot of us mention bands like Gillan and Maiden etc as, in those days (late 70s, early 80s), bands did 40 date UK tours and played Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea etc and everyone could afford to get there and see them. Remember the t-shirts with the dates listed on the back? It was affordable, a lot cheaper (not just because it was years ago and a gallon of petrol cost thruppence but because it took up a lot less of your disposable income. You could see one or even two of these touring bands every week in clubs and theatres like the Cardiff Top Rank, Bristol Colston Hall, local student's union bars etc). Now its three dates at the O2, two at the NEC and one 'oop North'. They used to bring the music to the people and the people came. Now the people are expected to go to them and pay at least £100-200 (inc travel, parking etc) for the privilege. No wonder computer games are more popular than music and live music is struggling.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1346359402' post='1788412'] Was that in the Top Rank on Queen Street? I was there too. [/quote] Yup - I was the guy with long hair, an afghan and jeans Didn't see you, Rhys?

Mahogany Rush as a first gig!! You RRRRROCK! Probably Paul Harwood on bass. I saw them at Port Vale football ground supporting Motorhead - Ozzy was on the bill with Randy Rhodes and Rudy Sarzo on guitar and bass respectively. My first was Gillan with John McCoy on bass, Bernie Torme on guitar, Colin Towns, keys, and Mick Underwood on drums. Support were two bands called Quartz and White Spirit, the latter having a young Janick Gers (now Iron Maiden) on guitar.

Some truth in that, Garry, but it is a good discipline to think of a solo as an arc with a beginning a middle and an end. Coltrane had to do it over 45 minutes

You need to pace youself more. Start somewhere and go somewhere else. Tell a story, as Lester Young said. You hit the ground running with your best licks and them just played some stuff that bore little relationship with what had gone before or what was going on around you. You can obviously play, now you just need to play something that matters. I am being harsh. Your stuff is better than most of the stuff on here by a country mile but you could be a lot better if you focussed on the music and not on the instrument. The secret is not to impress but to express. Try again and play about 40% less. Actually, if you want to really try something difficult as an exercise, try and play a meaningful solo with only eighth notes, no sixteenths. Or try something like only playing a maximum of 7 notes a bar of any note value.

As moderator of this forum, I must insits you get dressed before recording videos of yourself fusing and posting them.

It is 'Invitation' off Jaco's 'Twins' lp.

John Coltrane - Live At Birdland.

I guess this kind of chord theory/voicing is taking players away from 'bass' playing and into the realms of guitar playing. As such, I would suggest you don't use bass books but look to guitar books or plain old theory books like Mark Levine's for the concepts and then start exploring the details on your bass. Hellborg's book was one of the first to cover this kind of chord work and is, IIRC, based on the idea that the player is using a 4 string so it should be approached with that in mind. If you want to go to the cutting edge, you can't expect to find all of the answers neatly laid out in theory books. You may nave to dig around and make links to develop your own concept. For me, chordal work on the bass has very limited applications and fails more often than it succeeds, simply because the timbre of the notes militates against clarity. Playing chords high up on a six string neck is just quasi-guitar playing so, in my view, doesn't really count. PS I think I got to the age of 49 before I heard of 'triple stopping'

The essential Jaco cds are: Jaco Pastorius - Jaco Pastorius Jaco Pastorius - Word of Mouth Jaco Pastorius - Twins (US version, released as Invitation in the UK with half the good stuff missing) Joni Mitchell - Shadows and Light, Hejiera, Mingus Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life Weather Report - Black Market, Heavy Weather, 8.30 (live), Night Passage Flora Purim - Everyday, Every Night Good tracks to download as single tracks: Mood Swing - Mike Stern Suite Golden Dawn - Al DiMeola Natiivity - Airto Ones to avoid unless you are looking to complete a collection: anything with Brian Melvin or Birelli LaGrene on it, Paul Bley's 'Jaco', Albert Manglesdorf 'Triologue'.

Something was posted on here recently saying that pop music was increasingly homogenised. Is it any wonder that the musicians playing it are equally homogenised? Its the difference between art and craft. You can 'learn' how to be a craftsman but being an artist takes a whole different set of disciplines and investment. Faster, higher or further is just the mechanics . I remember talking to someone about studying composition in university and they said that it tells you how to develop stuff but it won't give you the ideas in the first place. Kind of covers it in my view. Great chops is the starting point not the end point.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1345797937' post='1781588'] You might get more gigs if you could read tab [/quote] I can. I just don't.

Now I have three this weekend....

I know that Eden amps were always sold on the basis that your starting point eq-wise was everything flat and them tweak for room acoustic. I find that 'awesome' bass sounds don't work in the context of most of the gigs I do so my Wal sounds nice and, errr, un-awesome when it is plugged in. But I find the flat sound using my Eden to have too many mids so I am either trying to add more bass/treble to counter or roll off the mids, depending on the room, the music being played, the band (horns/piano or el gtr/keyboard/vox), the volume etc. I guess I like the versatility of my set up rather than there being one sound. Regrettably, though, however hard I try, I always end up sounding like me.