aldude

So I gave the RH450 a good workout yesterday. My band is a 5-piece - 1 enthusiastic drummer, 2 enthusiastic guitarists, a singer and me (on bass!). We practice in a church so there's plenty of space to fill up with sound. I ran the amp into a Barefaced Super 12T. Firstly, the important question, is the RH450 loud enough over all that? Easy answer, yes definitely. Also, we were LOUD and there was no problem at all hearing the bass, it was probably too loud really but I like to push it a bit However, I could push the amp to a point where it is extremely loud, but not a lot further than that before it sounded like it was struggling - can't explain it really, because I didn't have much time to experiment as the looks from the other band members made me turn it down. The volume control was on about 1/3, I'd say there's a general increase in volume until about 2/3 and above that you notice the struggling. Could be compression or something else. It's hard to imagine a situation though where the amp will ever need to be this loud though, as above a certain venue size and volume PA support tends to be the norm. The overriding feeling for this amp is that it probably doesn't put out 450W (I know this is confirmed but I am trying to describe the feeling for the amp), but then it probably isn't that far off. The amp itself is heavy on what seems to be the low mids, so everything cuts through nicely, the bottom B string had no problem being heard and you can definitely feel it in your internals down there, which was nice. I had the EQ set at bass flat, low mids about +3, high mids about +6 and treble about +8. Frequencies on default, I didn't have enough time to experiment with those. I say treble, but there isn't much sparkly top end which is a shame for me as I like that. For this reason I would consider swapping the RH450 for the 750, but only for the tweetertone control, certainly NOT because the amp doesn't put out enough volume - it does. In conclusion - it turns out TC's 236 watts are plenty for me! EDIT: thanks gafbass for the above, not sure it adds much to the discussion so is probably a PR exercise more than anything else. What stood out for me though was the comment that 450 represents the "feel" of the amp rather than the actual power output, that is probably a good way to describe this amp, though for many people that is fair enough - who cares what the raw figures are if it sounds good and is loud enough. Interesting though that the RH750 also shows 236W with APM...

To add to the above, I used to have a Marcus Miller jazz, that had a great tone but was rather weedy at the bottom end. I replaced the pickups with a set of Bartolini 9J1 and that helped a lot. Plus they don't have exposed poles (the silver circles on the pickups), I play bass quite hard and sometimes the string touched the poles which resulted in an audible click through the amp. The Bart's solved that. But beware of the mate (or anyone for that matter) who says "what you need to do is this and that" as these sorts of suggestions aren't often very useful. So, in conclusion, completely ignore what I said!!!

[quote name='bigjohn' post='1354621' date='Aug 28 2011, 06:31 PM']... Similarly, I might want an RH450 so could use it as a lightweight 450W power amplifier, with an external pre. In which case, the RH either isn't going to sound as loud as it should, or is going to colour the signal from the pre in order to "sound louder" (depending where in the internal chain TC have put their "pixie dust").[/quote] You have a point here. This is a scenario where you might get stung by TC's exotic interpretation of power output. But, Paul Clifton summarised my own view in post #112, which I will reproduce here, because I couldn't put it better myself: "The public expect volume to be expressed in terms of watts, so how do you market an amp that is just as 'loud' as other amps, but a lower wattage rating? TC went the easy, sly route by picking a number that correlated to other amps with the same perceived volume output. Marketed as a TC 250 it may have been more honest, but people would have presumed it not powerful enough for their needs." So, the TC is probably fine for some situations, and not fine for others. However, I don't think this is different for a lot of other amps; some suit you, others don't. This is why there is more than one head on the market (and more than one from a particular manufacturer!). Try the RH450, and if it isn't loud enough or their technology produces a sound you don't like, try the RH750 or something else. To address the overriding issue though, looking at some selling sites the RH450 is clearly marked as having a 450W output which is misleading. Though as stated many times before: rock, hard place and all that. Also, somewhat OT: another post that makes a dig at others' personal values probably goes a bit far for this particular discussion (or even this entire forum) EDIT: I am used to loud amps and I used to own the Trace Elliot AH1000-12 that is for sale by Steff at the mo. That thing is truly earth-shattering. I will run the RH450 through its paces tomorrow night in a loud band and post some thoughts about perceived loudness, compression effects and the amount of headroom at the very bottom (which I'm most interested in).

I do think TC are being treated a bit harshly here. If I understand it correctly, TC have made a power management system that makes their watts sound louder than other solid state amps' watts. But nobody will really believe or understand that. People know (or believe anyway) that "tube watts" are louder than "solid state watts", but will people believe that TC solid state watts are louder than other manufacturers' solid state watts? Probably not. So, for people to be persuaded to buy the amps, they will have to be marketed in a different way. Unfortunately they seem to have chosen a way that a lot of people do not agree with. But I do agree that if the above is true, they had to do something, as selling the head as a 230W head would probably affect sales quite a lot. Perhaps they should have chosen a different marketing angle, like "230 tube watts" or "watt volume maximiser system" or something. Still.... does anyone know the power output at 2.7 ohms?

Interesting stuff. I got my RH450 a few weeks ago but I am still to use it in a band situation. One question is, what would the power/output be in a 3 cab scenario, i.e. three 8 ohm cabs which TC say is ok for the RH450 (well if you use their cabs anyway). I have a compact on the way from Alex which with the S12T I am guessing will be plenty loud enough but I am wondering if tthe 236W figure is at 4 ohm and more power would be output (e.g. 300W ish?) at 2.7 ohm (the impedance of three 8 ohm cabs).

Having failed to secure either Duck Dunn that's been for sale on here, my interest has turned to other P basses with jazz-like necks. So, what is out there? My own tastes would require MIJ or MIA, more modern style (eg. no bridge or pickup covers), and no bitsa! Preferably active preamp. Quality rather than cheapness. Does anything fit this?

[quote name='4000' post='1342125' date='Aug 16 2011, 05:09 PM']That sounds veeeery interesting. Can you turn the tweeter off? [/quote] Yes, the tweeter control is hidden in the port, also Alex does a Super 12 without tweeter (cheaper) for those who don't want/need one.

The Zoom PSU actually puts out 9V DC, and 300mA of power. So, the Zoom B2.1u needs 9V DC. The big muff also needs 9V DC. So the same PSU can be used to power either pedal. You can therefore use a splitter to power both pedals. The question then is whether 300mA is enough to power both pedals. Probably, as 300mA is quite a lot, but if you have problems then replace the PSU with a higher power 9V DC, there are ones that go up to 2000mA which are fairly cheap.

[quote name='funky8884' post='1339666' date='Aug 14 2011, 03:12 PM']Hey Guy's and Gal's, I am about to purchase one of the following compressors - Aguilar TLC ( current #1 pick ) MarkBass Compressore Rothwell Love Squeeze Demeter Compulator EBS MultiComp Effectrode PC-2A Has anyone out there A- B'd any of these pedals ? or owned one of the above and sold/swapped for any reasons ? They all seem to have good reviews on Ovnilabs. I am after a good quality comp that will not add any noise to my signal and will allow me to compress and peak limit.[/quote] I have used the MB Compressore and the EBS Multicomp. Both very, very very good. I'd go for the EBS though as it's a lot simpler to use and also a lot smaller. I also considered the Maxon CP9 Pro+.

Have a look at Ibanez - I have a Bass Collection and they are very similar in a lot of ways to the Ibanez SR range, not just their necks. Ibanez SR Prestige in particular being amazing

[quote name='SirChewey' post='1337206' date='Aug 12 2011, 02:41 AM']GAS = BASSES = CASTRATION = DIVORSE = NO MONEY = ANTIGAS Proof of the never ending cycle of bass players lives... It is written and so it shall be... Although... ANTIGAS = MONEY = GIRLFRIEND = NO MONEY ... . . .. Does that mean we only ever have one true GAS period or is this proof that in order to fullfill the prophecy true GASeous bassists can only marry once??[/quote] What about: ANTIGAS = MONEY = GIRLFRIEND = MARRIAGE = BOREDOM = GAS ... and so the circle is complete.

Used to have a MB Traveller 115P, single 15" speaker with piezo tweeter. Great small size, but the tweeter was crap. If I was to get more Markbass cabs I would avoid the piezo tweeter models. I would prob go for the Club series, I've heard good things about them. A 2x10 with either another 2x10 or that 2x12. EDIT: my mistake, it was the New York 151 I had, still had the crap piezo tweeter though!

Can anyone recommend a good place to get Prosteel singles? Strings Direct don't seem to have the gauges I am looking for - which are heavy, i.e. 135 or greater for the B string. I see D'Addario do a 145 taperwound string which would be ideal. Thanks!

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1328360' date='Aug 5 2011, 10:10 AM']If you need yet more output and more bottom than that'll work very well. TC states that their amps can be used with three of their own 8 ohm cabs and the impedance plots shown by Bass Gear Magazine show that their 8 ohm cabs have a perfectly typical impedance curve for an 8 ohm nominal cab. Therefore by deduction this confirms that the amps can indeed run a 2.7 ohm nominal load! They'll definitely run three Barefaced 8 ohm cabs or one 4 ohm and one 8 ohm without any problems. I'd strongly bet that this is true for any correctly rated 4 or 8 ohm cabs but without seeing measurements I can't guarantee it - some cabs are a more difficult load than others, the old EA ones being notably challenging. In the very unlikely event that there are problems the amp will go into heat-shutdown mode and will show an H on the LED display. Once it cools down it will start up again and run as normal. But it's very unlikely unless you block the cooling vents or play a very loud outdoor gig with it in strong direct sunlight (i.e. not with our feeble British sun!)[/quote] Thanks Alex, more output and more bottom end is just what I'm after! I'll contact you in the next few months if I can find 500 odd quid down the back of the sofa...

I'm lucky enough to have two recent Prestige models, the SR4005E and SR5000E. The quality and feel of these is the best I have ever seen, much better than supposedly £2k+ basses I have also owned or played. The necks are very slim which suits my small hands, very light too.

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='1327066' date='Aug 4 2011, 01:51 PM']finally, terms I understand! [/quote] Question is, do I get a Barefaced Compact to go with the Super 12 giving a 2.7ohm load to my RH450? Some input from Alex would be useful here. And what are the signs that this arrangement would not be treating the amp so well?

[quote name='mashup' post='1320094' date='Jul 29 2011, 09:29 AM']So, based on your experience & similar health problems due to heavy bass playing, i take you would advise me taking a punt on the new Ibanez SR1200 then?[/quote] It's not quite as clear cut as pure weight I suspect. I have two relatively new Ibanez's, a five string SR4005E and four string SR5000E. Now the fiver has a mahogany body whereas the four has a wenge top and back, making the four actually heavier. However, the five, even though it is lighter, suffers a bit from neck dive hence the four is a lot more comfortable to play as it's better balanced, despite being heavier.

This one will be put through a Barefaced Super 12T ... oh the anticipation!