Tech21NYC

Due to the differences in circuitry, settings on the V1 Bass Driver will not match settings on the V2 units. The manual for the V2 has the new settings. When we test these pedals we do it on a scope as it's very difficult to match by ear and even matching identical pedals will be slightly different because potentiometers have slightly varied values.

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1447844579' post='2910832'] A little bugbear of mine - Sansamp specs quote levels in dB and it's not clear if that means dBm, dBV, dBu. [/quote] Specifications for something like our SansAmp products don't really translate into the sound reinforcement world. Even the specs that manufacturers of power amps like Crown and QSC give are only for comparative purposes. The main difference is that those type of products are designed for sound "reproduction" vs products like ours that are for sound "production." Power amps like Crown or mixers like Mackie aren't designed to create "intentional" distortion like our SansAmps. Did you ever try to look up the specs for a Big Muff. When we did the measurements I mentioned previously for the RBI we used the same type of test that power amp manufacturers use but used a more "instrument relevant" frequency of 500Hz vs 1kHz but even that is not all that helpful in a real world application. We set the unit totally clean as you can't really do reliable measurements when you start "intentionally" distorting the preamp. People that use power amp's for sound reinforcement don't get bogged down by these specifications like the people I encounter on bass forums. They understand that if you are trying to power a speaker system that has a rating of 1000 watts the general rule of thumb is to use a power amp rated at 2000 watts, The sound company my band uses will triple the power when using newer digital power amps as he feels they don't translate the low end as well as the old lead sled power amps do. If you look at those big powerful 300-400 watt tube amps that Mesa and Rivera designed for bass and guitar applications those power amps can be driven to full output with a passive bass guitar whereas most sound reinforcement amps will require a preamp to boost the signal. The difference is that one product was designed for guitar & bass and the others are designed to work with mixers. If you'd like to give me the specific output of "your" bass perhaps I can give you the information you require. I doubt you can arrive at such a figure. I'm not trying to be snarky here but what I think is behind much of this "preamp driving the power amp driving the speakers" debates is that many players are kidding themselves about the reality of live sound. They want to walk in with their 4lb bass amp and a neo 210 cab and have 3000 watts of power. There is no substitute for more speakers pushing air. I've yet to hear anyone play an old school Ampeg SVT driving 810's that wasn't loud enough.

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447698184' post='2909615'] Many thanks for this. I will try my RBI into my Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2 & Streamer 9 FX loop returns. Ideally I want to take bass head out of rack and just use a power amp. Are there any power amps TECH 21 would recommend or endorse? [/quote] We don't have any specific power amp to recommend. I was mainly responding to the compatibility aspect of the thread. Any power amp should work. It depends on how much continuous power you require. With our amps that use a digital power amp we are able to optimize the system so the preamp section doesn't overload the input to the power section. I've used Crown power amps, Carvin and various other amps over the years. Our band does a lot of large shows and though most gear we use are powered speakers I still see Crown, Crest and QSC power amps from time to time. It really comes down to how much you want to spend and carry. No matter how much power you have you will get to a point of diminishing returns if you don't bring enough speakers. [quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1447753992' post='2909954'] Sorry if you feel that I've spoken out of turn. All I can say is that my cabs at the time were a Barefaced Super 12 and a Markbass STD104HR (both 4ohm and neither considered to lack sensitivity) and the most I was wanting to get out of the rig was the equivalent volume of my 500W Markbass head, so the bridged 1500W XLS was more than the 'recommended' 2x over-spec. The RBI didn't work well for me, but my old Peavey TB-Raxx preamp worked fine in its place - I just didn't want to use the Peavey in my gigging rack and risk damaging it. I swapped the XLS out and the RBI then worked fine into my Markbass head (just as you yourself suggest) and the XLS proved its worth as a PA amp. Given that I'd proven all the bits were fine on their own and with other combinations of gear, the sensible conclusion seemed to be that the RBI and XLS just didn't work well together for some reason. One not having the requisite poke to drive the other was what I came up with, but I admit it was just a guess and I'm happy to stand corrected. [/quote] How were you using the RBI into the Crown? What were the specific settings on both the RBI and power amp? What type of bass, passive or active? Any other effects in line before the RBI and in the loop or placed between the RBI and power amp. The thing to remember is that those specs are usually based on a 1kHz sine wave, we typically use a 500 Hertz sine wave. You mentioned the amp worked fine for the PA. What speakers and system? Bass is the hardest thing to amplify. You need more power for the low end. Were you running the bass through the PA system? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but playing one instrument through a bass cab situated on the floor is not the same as a PA system with speakers that are pole mounted or suspended in the air with sub woofers etc.

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1447198217' post='2905803'] That was my rig for a while... Looked quite cool but, if I'm honest, the RBI wasn't such a great match with the XLS1500 as it didn't seem to put out a strong enough signal to really drive the power amp. It was alright, but nowhere near as loud as the XLS is actually capable of when used for PA and driven by a decent mixer. [/quote] Sorry but this is not correct. We have been through this numerous times on the Talk Bass forum years back. We even measured our RBI's output to duplicate Crown's test specs. These are the results: [quote][color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]With a -10dB 1kz sine wave (which is what Crown uses for the specs) (.3V rms which is an instrument level signal) and all the EQ controls on the RBI set flat, output level at 3 o'clock and the blend off, the output voltage of the RBI is 3.6 V rms. [/font][/color][/quote] :Part of the problem is that Crown makes power amps for sound reinforcement applications not musical instrument use. While a pro multi channel mixer with all its channels being driven to the max can put out a significant signal level and exceed the input level requirements of the Crown there is no extra output to be had. You would simply have to turn down the gains on the Crown to prevent the mixer from overloading the input of the power amp. You would have to do the same with the RBI. The wattage rating of the power amp and your speaker system are only part of the equation. Typically many bass cabs that handle higher wattage ratings are also lower efficiency. You have to look at the SPL the cab is capable of reproducing and most bass cabs will not compete with high quality sound reinforcement speaker systems. With an amp like the Crown if you're looking for 1000 watts RMS, Crown will recommend a 2000 watt power amp. This is because music is not a steady sine wave. If you don't have the added headroom the power amp will clip at any sustained sounds that go beyond the RMS limit. They can handle small peaks but not continuous peaks. I would recommend to the OP to try using the RBI into his amps EFX loop return (if provided) to bypass the preamp section of the amp. This will give you a good idea of the sound of the RBI on its own. There is also a way to use the RBI independently from your amp's preamp with certain models of amps.

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1446112884' post='2896925'] Just taken delivery of a Tech21 VTB500 and it looks like it is going straight back. As soon as I plugged in, nix/nadda/nothing. Wiggled the lead around and crackle/pop and then sound. Swapped the lead and it did exactly the same thing. Also the fan seems to be on all the time and it is really noisy compared to my MarkBass. I don't have the confidence to take it out on a gig so looks like it will have to go back. The input Jack socket appears to be the problem. The jack plug is not very tight when plugged in. Loads of play. When it does work it sounds great and the tonal possibilities are endless. [/quote] We are sorry to hear that you received a defective unit. Did you contact the dealer to exchange it? We haven't heard of this issue before. If the input jack is loose that's a fairly easy fix but the fan should NOT be on all the time.

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1445949748' post='2895601'] Simple answer is Yes. Essentially the Tech 21 is a Sansamp bass driver and power amp in 1 box Play with the Character control and well it changes the character of the amp. [/quote] Not to spam but this is incorrect. The amp is not a Bass Driver attached to a power amp. It's a 500 watt amp with a newly designed preamp based on our VT Bass products that can be run totally clean if you're into that "hi-fi" bass tone or it can emulate a vintage tube amp. Even when using the tube emulation the amp is capable of clean tones. There are a lot of choices out there and we always recommend you try before you buy if possible. Here are a couple of recent videos of the VT Bass 500: [url="https://youtu.be/aeus-kMK4qs"]https://youtu.be/aeus-kMK4qs[/url] [url="https://youtu.be/iDtTWGwWMj8"]https://youtu.be/iDtTWGwWMj8[/url]

The RBI's output includes speaker emulation. The only problem in your specific application is that bass guitar speaker cabs don't sound like PA speakers. Your sound will change with every different set of speakers you use. I'm curious. How are you hearing your sound through the PA system at gigs while playing? Is the FOH telling you your sound is not good through the PA? What is wrong with the sound? Too, bright, too dark, too overdriven etc? My guess is that you are probably running more high end with your bass cabs and that is getting exaggerated through the PA system. We use a fairly mild speaker sim EQ curve so it works well into a mixer as well as through a bass cab. If there is too much high end you can always roll off some at the board. If the mixer has sweepable mids that's even better. If you really like the sound of the RBI with your bass rig try going direct with your amp and tweaking the tone at the mixer. Another way to do it is if you are running the RBI into the PA and a traditional bass amp you can get the sound you want with the RBI and mixer and the use the bass amp's tone controls to fine tune your stage sound.

The VT Bass DI is a DI. Normally you would plug into the VT Bass DI "first" and send the un-effected parallel out to your bass amp and use it as you normally do and send the XLR out of the VT Bass DI to the mixer. You "can" use it as a stomp box as well but you need to make sure everything is gain staged properly. Do you have the 1/4" output set for instrument level? If it's set for the 10dB boost you could be overloading your amp's preamp. Try using the pedal by itself into either your amp's aux in or post efx return so you can bypass your amp's preamp. That's the best way to hear what the pedal can do and then try putting it in front of your amp once you get a handle on it. As for the cross talk or bleed through with the Blend control at minimum, some early units had this issue and there was a component change in later units to fix this. If you pedal in still in the warranty period this could be sent in for a warranty repair.

Our Bass Driver DI was originally intended for DI use. You would run the SansAmp out to the PA and send the parallel out to your bass rig and use that as you stage sound and the SansAmp for your DI sound. The Bass Driver was meant to get a very specific sound easily without a lot of fuss. People complain about the mid scoop but that has to do with running it into the front end of an amp that already has it's own EQ shape and usually a built in mid scoop. If you want more midrange control and you plan on using the product into your amp vs the mixer we suggest our Para Driver DI which has a sweepable midrange control or our VT Bass products. Because our SansAmp products are emulating a vintage tube amp in its entirety they tend to work best in front of an amp that is set for a more flat response. You can also use the Blend control to give you more of your amp's inherent tone if desired.

Using the headphone jack on the VT Bass 500 mutes the power amp. You can run the amp with nothing plugged into the speaker jack. You can also plug a dummy cable into the efx receive jack and engage the efx loop. This will interrupt the signal to the power amp. In regard to volume it's not always easy to compare unless two given amps are set very clean and are driving the same speaker systems. It seems everyone wants a high powered 5 lb amp head and a light 210 cab and expect it to keep up with an SVT driving an 810. It's not happening. You still need speakers. Our designer was playing the VT Bass 500 last week hooked up to two of our 410 cabinets. It is LOUD. You just can't beat having 8 speakers moving air.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1440576643' post='2852003'] I've used a few T21 products in the past and had to abandon them all due to lack of flexibility WRT to the speaker simulation. You guys have arguably the best solid state drive sound in the industry and yet are determined to hobble certain products in the eyes of at least some of your potential customers for want of including a button than would add negligible production cost, I just don't see the logic behind it. This isn't just about the VTBass, I just cant understand why all T21 products don't have defeatable speaker sim as standard, ideally separate controls for amp output and DI. [/quote] It helps to understand the design of the amp. The VT Bass was designed to sound like it does from the ground up. It wasn't designed to sound like the speaker output of an Ampeg amp and then we added speaker emulation. The speaker emulation is part of the sound. You are also forgetting the topology of the design. An actual tube amp has no tone controls after the output section and speaker. The VT Bass does. The Low, Mid and High controls are capable of 18dB of boost or cut. Those controls are post Drive, Character and Speaker emulation. Just for our own edification we set up the VT Bass 500 with two of our passive 410 cabs and compared the amp and then used the VT Bass DI as a preamp into the efx return. We disengaged the speaker sim at higher distortion setting and there was the top end fizz. We then turned the speaker sim back on and turned up the treble control and could pretty much match the fizzy sound. This would be even more pronounced in a full range cab. Please note that we did not find this a desirable sound. If the Blend control is set at minimum the amp operates like a typical bass amp set clean.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1440452441' post='2850970'] A standalone amp that you cant disengage the speaker sim on ? seriously what were you thinking ?. Mind you I used to have the sans amp guitar DI box which sounded brilliant for recording but sold it in the end because the permanently on speaker sim made it useless for playing with a rig. A truly face palm worthy design decision. [/quote] My suggestion would be to try the amp first before passing judgement on the design. It was designed to be used with a full range cab or passive cab. The Blend control can be used if you want to reduce the effect of the speaker emulation.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1440086539' post='2848195'] Thanks for that - this might have been asked before, but is there a HPF set, and if so, at what frequency? [/quote] We don't use a high pass filter as that would affect the tone of the instrument. We use a sub sonic filter to protect the speakers from DC voltage. [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1440086932' post='2848199'] Oh well, i think thats me out. I dont know why i would want a speaker sim when im using a speaker. Maybe this was why i never got on with the VTBass v1 i had for a few weeks a few years ago. People tend to read too much into what a speaker sim actually is. It's really the EQ curve of a mic'd speaker. The speaker sim is designed so our products can be run through a full range speaker system without the fizz, noise and hash that is not present when using a convention instrument speaker which typically starts to roll off around 5K. Since the undesirable high end is already rolled off a passive speaker can't roll off what is no longer there. We utilize a mild high frequency roll off that is designed to work well with a passive speaker system. [/quote]

[quote name='samtindal' timestamp='1439321092' post='2841944'] I've got a general question to you all, do you have experience using a Sansamp Bass DI? I've been using mine for a year and have now come across an issue where it is fine for ten minutes, and then it cuts out and the signal goes weak and distorted. Any ideas? [/quote] We are sorry to hear you're experiencing problems with your Sansamp Bass Driver DI. I'm assuming it is beyond the warranty period. Did you try contacting out UK Distributor to see if they could have it repaired locally? The contact information is below: [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][color=#CC0000][b][u][size=1]UNITED KINGDOM[/size][/u][/b][/color][/size][/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][b][color=#990000]ROCKY ROAD DISTRIBUTION LTD [/color][/b] Tel: + 44 (0) 1494 535333 Fax: + 44 (0) 8701 360067 E-mail: [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email] Website: [url="http://www.rocky-rd.com/"]www.rocky-rd.com[/url][/size][/font]

The speaker sim on the VT Bass 500 is always active when the SansAmp circuit is engaged. It is bypassed when the Blend control is turned to minimum. The Drive, Character and Bite functions are also inactive when the Blend is set to minimum. The Level, Low, Mid and High controls are always active no matter where the Blend control is set. The Bite switch is a pre-shape presence boost and is the stock VT Bass tone.

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1371677461' post='2116971'] as I have a 3000w stereo power amp that I only use half of it for the PA I could use the RB1 & the other half of the amp to power the bass speaker ? [/quote] Sure, that would work. Many players use power amps with preamps. Just take care that you don't send too much power to your cab.

I'm a little confused by the statement using the Bass Driver to "clean up" your clean tone? The Bass Driver is designed as a direct recording device and a tube amp emulated DI box. It can be used into an amp as well. If you're having feedback issues you can start by gain staging the Bass Driver for unity gain. This means that the pedal will be the same volume as running your bass into your amp without the pedal. The same goes for your distortion pedal. A little volume boost is OK but a large jump may result in feedback.

We usually recommend going into the efx "return" and bypassing your amp's preamp section. The RBI is a dedicated preamp and running it into the front of your amp you will be stacking the two pre's together. The two EQ's may tend to fight each other making it difficult to dial in. This is not to say you can't run it this way. Just set your amp's tone controls for a more flat setting. You can also use an A/B box and use each preamp separately through your amp as well.

We can modify the VT Bass Deluxe with the speaker sim circuit. The problem for us is that while that is done, the defeat is on both the 1/4" and XLR outs. If using the pedal into an amp and PA at the same time this could be a disadvantage. Let me clarify something. The SansAmp speaker emulation can be pretty much dialed out by using the EQ on the pedal as it is all post SansAmp circuitry. The speaker sim is not really the problem. By taking out the speaker sim the pedal would be even brighter. The V2 pedal disengages the speaker sim but also [b]adds[/b] a 6dB per octave high roll off filter in its place. This makes the pedal easier to use into an amp that has its high frequency content emphasized. It's the host amp's EQ that makes the pedal overly bright. Most amp's are not flat response. You will have the best luck with the pedal by dialing in your amp for a more neutral tone so the EQ of the amp and pedal don't "fight" with one another. It is possible with some amp's that have efx loops to use the pedal with an A/B switch. That will enable you to use the VT Bass and your amp's preamp separately.

The Leeds is designed to sound like a Hiwatt vs the Ampeg sounds of the VT Bass. I like the Leeds for bass. YMMV. I usually set it for a very mild overdrive. It can be a very clean pedal if you want and has a nice high end sparkle. It's always best to try for yourself.

Unfortunately, our new bass amps are not RoHS compliant. The amps would work with a step down transformer. The only drag is that if you do obtain the amp there will be no warranty available in your country.

[quote name='REDLAWMAN' timestamp='1322681483' post='1454517'] Tech 21- I'm going straight into the unit and then from the driver into the effects return on my amp. It's not the driver itself that's kicking out the hiss; it's the sound of the driver coming through my cab. It's not omni-present: it's more apparent on settings like 'Bassman' and 'Distorted' and as I'm altering the positions of some of the knobs (like Drive, Presence and Level). I appreciate that Level can have a propensity for doing this, but on some settings (notably those I've just described), I've got the background hissing even when I'm at unity gain. For the avoidance of any doubt here, I am talking about at-home practise levels and notwithstanding this, I actually really do like the different sounds I'm able to get a great deal! [/quote] Does the hiss stop when you turn down the volume on your bass? Are you using the boost switch for the 1/4" output? Have you tried playing with that setting? It could be that your bass has a hotter output (this is quite common) than the bass we used for the settings and your settings are higher gain. The more gain you have the more noise. This will also be exacerbated when using non-hum-cancelling pickups. The only other thing that may be happening is that the efx loop on the Markbass amp is not working well with the SansAmp. I've tried to look at their manual but it doesn't seem to show a block diagram. It seems like there shouldn't be an issue. I read somewhere that the loop is parallel but there is a mod to make it series which would be better in this application. It's hard to know what exactly is going on without seeing a block diagram.

[quote name='REDLAWMAN' timestamp='1322394320' post='1450181'] I've searched all I can find, both on here and Talkbass and I can't find anything specific to this. I've just bought a Sansamp Bass Driver Deluxe. Passive P, flats, Littlemark III and Berg NV 412. The thing is 'hissing' like a rattlesnake, even on some of the 'pre-sets' in the manual, particularly on things like the 'SVT' emulation. I think I'm perhaps missing something here, because I appreciate that practically the entire bass-playing world loves it, but right now, my old Zoom B2 does the job far better without even a trace of hiss!! Many thanks. [/quote] The Bass Driver Deluxe as well as all our pedals have very low self noise. Is the hiss still there when you turn your bass guitar volume down? Are you plugging directly into the Bass Driver and then to the efx return or are you patching the pedal in the loop with the efx send feeding the input of the pedal?

A simple way to look at the difference between our Bass Driver DI and VT bass pedals is in terms of modern versus vintage sound. There is some crossover between the two but the Bass Driver has more of that modern mid scooped bass tone with the ability to get some vintage tones as well. The VT Bass on the other hand is designed to emulate more of those vintage Ampeg SVT and B15 sounds. What I've noticed is that many younger players (at least here in the US) have never really played through a valve bass amp and are sometimes a little overwhelmed when presented with that type of tone. They are used to ultra clean solid state bass amps that are similar to playing direct with the benefit of some speaker coloration and perhaps a bit of compression. If you are unsure, you may want to go with something like our Bass Driver or Para Driver DI pedals as these provide the ability to "blend" in you straight guitar tone with the SansAmp tone. This is similar to the way bass has been recorded for years in the studio. They mic an amp and take a DI of the bass and mix or blend it to become one sound. This is not to say that you can't be happy with a pedal like our VT Bass. You just need to remember to be very judicious with the drive control until you get used to that analog valve type of tone.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1214795' date='Apr 29 2011, 07:45 AM'][url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3730"]See here.[/url] Basically, everything is gain, hardly anything is master volume. The power section basically set at volume, and you only control volume at preamp level, before it gets to them. Last thing I had with an FX loop I used to bypass the preamp was an Ashdown combo, and the 'master' volume was bypassed.[/quote] Not all amps are set up the same but on many if you plug into the efx return the master volume will be bypassed. It's better to be safe than sorry. In regard to the speaker sim bypass on the V2 Vt Bass pedals, it enables the pedal to be used into the front end of an amp that has its high end emphasized. Most guitar and bass amplifiers are not flat response. When you plug one of our SansAmp products into a mixing console for direct use that is a flat response setting. If you were to go into a mixing console and say bump up the highs and bass and cut the mids the response would no longer be flat obviously (much like an amp) and you would have to compensate for this with different EQ settings on the VT Bass.