Tech21NYC

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1492624720' post='3281777'] Subbed, liking the idea of this. I do have a few questions for Tech 21 if you can answer them, thanks for all of your information so far! What's the output voltage? I'd be looking to pair it with a QSC that ideally wants 1.1V How much of a chew on is setting the internal jumper? [/quote] It will easily drive that amp. The deal is with any amp you don't want to be running the amp at it's maximum wattage. You will have no headroom for transients. Most modern digital amps have internal limiting to prevent overload but they aren't foolproof. Changing the jumpers is fairly easy. You just take off the top of the unit and change the position. There will be instructions when the production units ship.

[quote name='buff' timestamp='1492549809' post='3281208'] Would like to see a side by side comparison with the VT pedal, just to see what your getting for twice the price. [/quote] They are not comparable products. The VT Bass is an amp emulator. The Q\Strip is a vintage style EQ that can be used on a multitude of sources. It doesn't have the distortion and overdrive characteristics that our SansAmp products offer.

[quote name='nash' timestamp='1490721495' post='3267402'] Their take on the JHS Colour box? [/quote] Not really. I haven't had first hand experience with that box (JHS Clour Box) but it is designed to get "intentional" distortion. According to the description on their website it has an extra gain stage in series. It looks like a cool box. The Q\Strip is designed to be a vintage styled EQ. A powerful tone shaping tool. You can also use the LPF filter and EQ for speaker simulation.

It's a vintage style EQ. It was not designed as a SansAmp like the Bass Driver. Para Driver etc. It is meant to be used clean. If you turn it all the way up it will distort but that is not the design intent.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1489249841' post='3255500'] They sound great, could I get one just to plug into my interface or would I need a separate power amp for that? Shame there's no Poweramps along side it, what power amp would be recommended for this pre? [/quote] You can go directly into your interface with the unit. You would never use a power amp into any interface that I'm aware of. You can hook the GED-2112 into whatever amp you want. A stand alone power amp (tube or solid state) the efx return of front end of a traditional amp. Geddy alway's uses in-ears so there was no consideration for a matching power amp for this product.

[quote name='dpcookson' timestamp='1488906788' post='3252837'] That's a shame! Seems backwards to me to not allow stereo signal processing when you have two parallel signal chains... But I suppose it is to Ged's spec not mine! [/quote] Geddy does not run the signal at equal levels which makes stereo (for him) a moot point. I don't think he even runs the Deep channel to his in-ears. That's really more the "DI" signal for the real low end the PA produces. Bass for the most part is rarely run in stereo. You can, but those lower registers are omni-directional which will not translate well in stereo.For a big live show, stereo is kind of pointless unless you can get the entire audience to somehow sit in the middle of the venue.

[quote name='dpcookson' timestamp='1488653202' post='3250850'] Can the two inputs on this be used simultaneously for dual output basses? [/quote] The two inputs on the back can be plugged into simultaneously but you can only toggle between them. This is because Geddy runs two wireless units so he can switch to a different instrument easily. The front input overrides the rear inputs for quickly patching in. [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1488752189' post='3251575'] I think I'll be getting one of these. Despite already running a racked RBI, the option to run this into a two-channel set up is kind of dreamy...fundamentally, it's doing what my (other) outboard is doing (cleanish set BDDI and a GT2). If anyone from Tech21 is reading this, is there any plan to integrate this unit with a poweramp, like the dUg model? [/quote] Unlikely. Geddy has not used amps on stage for years and most likely will not in the future. Anything's possible though.

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1485507614' post='3224398'] Helpful.... This looks like an interesting piece of kit and, providing the £ price doesn't exceed the $, it looks like a good price too! Haven't checked, but do tech 21 sell power amps to accompany this?? [/quote] No, we do not offer any stand alone power amps at this time.

The Geddy preamp will retail for $495 US. Street price should be about $369 US. Geddy runs the channels independently. The production model will have internal jumpers so you can mix the channels through a single output.

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1477940674' post='3165430'] Shame they didn't see fit to seperate out the octave, fuzz & envelope onto seperate footswitches, way more useful than a boost (lazy inclusion from someone with a guitar mindset) & chorus. Still a nice piece of gear, but couldn't replace a good setup of individuals for me at the mo, shame. My guitarist friend has the Richie Kotzen one and loves it! Si [/quote] The concept for the Bass Fly Rig was a small portable solution for "fly dates" or for players that get stuck using back line gear that does not deliver the sound they require. It was not meant to be a be all and end all replacement for your dream rig. It can be used in conjunction with your main rig to easily add some extra utility. The main focus was the analog engine. The Octafilter section was more of a bonus effect to utilize some of the leftover DSP power from the chorus section. To add switches for the Octafilter section would increase the size of the unit, the cost and would also necessitate extra controls for each section and there is not enough DSP power to do that. The Boost section has been requested by a number of bass players and it also gives more flexibility for those that wish to run a cleaner overall sound and add distortion to that sound or use the boost for extra output to either punctuate a passage or give extra level for a solo section.

This is a common problem with these type of true bypass setups. Your are still getting signal loss with all that cabling and jacks etc. Plus many effects when engaged have inconsistent outputs. You would think an effect is low impedance when engaged but many effects use a pot after the circuitry which loads down the circuit. In short your impedance is shifting all over the place and hence the volume and tone differences. In a Bradshaw system he has two buffers, one at the front of the chain and one at the back so your effects always see the correct impedance. A lot of the better switching systems allow you to run certain pedals without a buffer and others with. I think this is more an issue for lead guitar than bass unless you're using some vintage type fuzz with a passive bass. Also the better switching systems use relays instead of a hard bypass switch. The new Boss switching system looks pretty cool in that it can also reroute the order of the effects.

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1471619792' post='3114556'] Yeah, fair enough about import tax and VAT, but are you actually trying to justify the fact that your Dug Pinnick amp is $1800 in the US and £2200 over here?!! When I worked that out before brexit I grant you that made it £900 more expensive over here. So much so that I could fly to New York, pick one up from your factory and still have change for a transformer with cash left over when I got back. Which is all a great pity as you make really good gear. I would have thought you'd have some control of prices though. [/quote] In Europe the product is sold to a distributor and then sold to dealers. Kind of like my Lehle example. That product is sold to a distributor here and then sold to dealers. In the US we sell directly to dealers and we have MAP pricing. There is no middle man or extra shipping. We can't dictate what European dealers charge for their products. I'm sure they base it on a number of factors. It's a drag but we don't dictate prices over there. I think in part this is due to the fact that the US is so large and competitive. We do have sales tax from state to state but if I buy a product from California and have it shipped here to the east coast there is no sales tax. Now if its from a big company like Apple Computer that sells in every state there will be a tax. Plus the shipping will vary as well. Some of the bigger online retailers operate on such small margins they have to sell a ton of stuff to make any profit. That's really hard for a small dealer to compete with. Even here it's hard. Years back I worked for a small music store. We would sell something like a Yamaha keyboard at the standard discount and 6 months later the bigger retailers would be selling it below our cost to blow them out and we'd be stuck. We stopped carrying certain products for that reason.

The VT Bass 500 will produce 500 watts with the Blend control off. If you have a low output bass you will have to turn up the master obviously. When using a low output bass you can use the Drive control for extra input gain. The amp is very capable of great clean tones with the Blend fully up just like a high powered tube amp. Tube emulation doesn't have to be distortion. The efx loop and DI are post master. If the DI is too hot you can engage the DI pad to reduce the level at the mixer. If the master is up full there may be some issue with effects that don't handle line level, This amp is quite loud when used with two speakers. If you're needing to run it at full volume you may not be using enough speakers or your speaker system is very inefficient.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1468356171' post='3090435'] Isn't it so often the case with stuff imported from the State's... It costs $200 so it costs £200. It costs $400 so it costs £400. It costs $1000 so it costs £1000... And so on. [/quote] Just to be clear we don't set the prices in Europe and actually make less money on our product shipped there. There are import duties, the cost of shipping from the states and VAT that our European Distributors have to pass on to the consumer. They in turn have to ship to dealers which adds additional cost. For some perspective, I've had a couple of Lehle pedals. My Dual SGoS costs $349 US here. Thomann sells it for 238 Euros which is $269 US.

Due to the differences in circuitry, settings on the V1 Bass Driver will not match settings on the V2 units. The manual for the V2 has the new settings. When we test these pedals we do it on a scope as it's very difficult to match by ear and even matching identical pedals will be slightly different because potentiometers have slightly varied values.

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1447844579' post='2910832'] A little bugbear of mine - Sansamp specs quote levels in dB and it's not clear if that means dBm, dBV, dBu. [/quote] Specifications for something like our SansAmp products don't really translate into the sound reinforcement world. Even the specs that manufacturers of power amps like Crown and QSC give are only for comparative purposes. The main difference is that those type of products are designed for sound "reproduction" vs products like ours that are for sound "production." Power amps like Crown or mixers like Mackie aren't designed to create "intentional" distortion like our SansAmps. Did you ever try to look up the specs for a Big Muff. When we did the measurements I mentioned previously for the RBI we used the same type of test that power amp manufacturers use but used a more "instrument relevant" frequency of 500Hz vs 1kHz but even that is not all that helpful in a real world application. We set the unit totally clean as you can't really do reliable measurements when you start "intentionally" distorting the preamp. People that use power amp's for sound reinforcement don't get bogged down by these specifications like the people I encounter on bass forums. They understand that if you are trying to power a speaker system that has a rating of 1000 watts the general rule of thumb is to use a power amp rated at 2000 watts, The sound company my band uses will triple the power when using newer digital power amps as he feels they don't translate the low end as well as the old lead sled power amps do. If you look at those big powerful 300-400 watt tube amps that Mesa and Rivera designed for bass and guitar applications those power amps can be driven to full output with a passive bass guitar whereas most sound reinforcement amps will require a preamp to boost the signal. The difference is that one product was designed for guitar & bass and the others are designed to work with mixers. If you'd like to give me the specific output of "your" bass perhaps I can give you the information you require. I doubt you can arrive at such a figure. I'm not trying to be snarky here but what I think is behind much of this "preamp driving the power amp driving the speakers" debates is that many players are kidding themselves about the reality of live sound. They want to walk in with their 4lb bass amp and a neo 210 cab and have 3000 watts of power. There is no substitute for more speakers pushing air. I've yet to hear anyone play an old school Ampeg SVT driving 810's that wasn't loud enough.

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447698184' post='2909615'] Many thanks for this. I will try my RBI into my Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2 & Streamer 9 FX loop returns. Ideally I want to take bass head out of rack and just use a power amp. Are there any power amps TECH 21 would recommend or endorse? [/quote] We don't have any specific power amp to recommend. I was mainly responding to the compatibility aspect of the thread. Any power amp should work. It depends on how much continuous power you require. With our amps that use a digital power amp we are able to optimize the system so the preamp section doesn't overload the input to the power section. I've used Crown power amps, Carvin and various other amps over the years. Our band does a lot of large shows and though most gear we use are powered speakers I still see Crown, Crest and QSC power amps from time to time. It really comes down to how much you want to spend and carry. No matter how much power you have you will get to a point of diminishing returns if you don't bring enough speakers. [quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1447753992' post='2909954'] Sorry if you feel that I've spoken out of turn. All I can say is that my cabs at the time were a Barefaced Super 12 and a Markbass STD104HR (both 4ohm and neither considered to lack sensitivity) and the most I was wanting to get out of the rig was the equivalent volume of my 500W Markbass head, so the bridged 1500W XLS was more than the 'recommended' 2x over-spec. The RBI didn't work well for me, but my old Peavey TB-Raxx preamp worked fine in its place - I just didn't want to use the Peavey in my gigging rack and risk damaging it. I swapped the XLS out and the RBI then worked fine into my Markbass head (just as you yourself suggest) and the XLS proved its worth as a PA amp. Given that I'd proven all the bits were fine on their own and with other combinations of gear, the sensible conclusion seemed to be that the RBI and XLS just didn't work well together for some reason. One not having the requisite poke to drive the other was what I came up with, but I admit it was just a guess and I'm happy to stand corrected. [/quote] How were you using the RBI into the Crown? What were the specific settings on both the RBI and power amp? What type of bass, passive or active? Any other effects in line before the RBI and in the loop or placed between the RBI and power amp. The thing to remember is that those specs are usually based on a 1kHz sine wave, we typically use a 500 Hertz sine wave. You mentioned the amp worked fine for the PA. What speakers and system? Bass is the hardest thing to amplify. You need more power for the low end. Were you running the bass through the PA system? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but playing one instrument through a bass cab situated on the floor is not the same as a PA system with speakers that are pole mounted or suspended in the air with sub woofers etc.

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1447198217' post='2905803'] That was my rig for a while... Looked quite cool but, if I'm honest, the RBI wasn't such a great match with the XLS1500 as it didn't seem to put out a strong enough signal to really drive the power amp. It was alright, but nowhere near as loud as the XLS is actually capable of when used for PA and driven by a decent mixer. [/quote] Sorry but this is not correct. We have been through this numerous times on the Talk Bass forum years back. We even measured our RBI's output to duplicate Crown's test specs. These are the results: [quote][color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]With a -10dB 1kz sine wave (which is what Crown uses for the specs) (.3V rms which is an instrument level signal) and all the EQ controls on the RBI set flat, output level at 3 o'clock and the blend off, the output voltage of the RBI is 3.6 V rms. [/font][/color][/quote] :Part of the problem is that Crown makes power amps for sound reinforcement applications not musical instrument use. While a pro multi channel mixer with all its channels being driven to the max can put out a significant signal level and exceed the input level requirements of the Crown there is no extra output to be had. You would simply have to turn down the gains on the Crown to prevent the mixer from overloading the input of the power amp. You would have to do the same with the RBI. The wattage rating of the power amp and your speaker system are only part of the equation. Typically many bass cabs that handle higher wattage ratings are also lower efficiency. You have to look at the SPL the cab is capable of reproducing and most bass cabs will not compete with high quality sound reinforcement speaker systems. With an amp like the Crown if you're looking for 1000 watts RMS, Crown will recommend a 2000 watt power amp. This is because music is not a steady sine wave. If you don't have the added headroom the power amp will clip at any sustained sounds that go beyond the RMS limit. They can handle small peaks but not continuous peaks. I would recommend to the OP to try using the RBI into his amps EFX loop return (if provided) to bypass the preamp section of the amp. This will give you a good idea of the sound of the RBI on its own. There is also a way to use the RBI independently from your amp's preamp with certain models of amps.

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1446112884' post='2896925'] Just taken delivery of a Tech21 VTB500 and it looks like it is going straight back. As soon as I plugged in, nix/nadda/nothing. Wiggled the lead around and crackle/pop and then sound. Swapped the lead and it did exactly the same thing. Also the fan seems to be on all the time and it is really noisy compared to my MarkBass. I don't have the confidence to take it out on a gig so looks like it will have to go back. The input Jack socket appears to be the problem. The jack plug is not very tight when plugged in. Loads of play. When it does work it sounds great and the tonal possibilities are endless. [/quote] We are sorry to hear that you received a defective unit. Did you contact the dealer to exchange it? We haven't heard of this issue before. If the input jack is loose that's a fairly easy fix but the fan should NOT be on all the time.

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1445949748' post='2895601'] Simple answer is Yes. Essentially the Tech 21 is a Sansamp bass driver and power amp in 1 box Play with the Character control and well it changes the character of the amp. [/quote] Not to spam but this is incorrect. The amp is not a Bass Driver attached to a power amp. It's a 500 watt amp with a newly designed preamp based on our VT Bass products that can be run totally clean if you're into that "hi-fi" bass tone or it can emulate a vintage tube amp. Even when using the tube emulation the amp is capable of clean tones. There are a lot of choices out there and we always recommend you try before you buy if possible. Here are a couple of recent videos of the VT Bass 500: [url="https://youtu.be/aeus-kMK4qs"]https://youtu.be/aeus-kMK4qs[/url] [url="https://youtu.be/iDtTWGwWMj8"]https://youtu.be/iDtTWGwWMj8[/url]

The RBI's output includes speaker emulation. The only problem in your specific application is that bass guitar speaker cabs don't sound like PA speakers. Your sound will change with every different set of speakers you use. I'm curious. How are you hearing your sound through the PA system at gigs while playing? Is the FOH telling you your sound is not good through the PA? What is wrong with the sound? Too, bright, too dark, too overdriven etc? My guess is that you are probably running more high end with your bass cabs and that is getting exaggerated through the PA system. We use a fairly mild speaker sim EQ curve so it works well into a mixer as well as through a bass cab. If there is too much high end you can always roll off some at the board. If the mixer has sweepable mids that's even better. If you really like the sound of the RBI with your bass rig try going direct with your amp and tweaking the tone at the mixer. Another way to do it is if you are running the RBI into the PA and a traditional bass amp you can get the sound you want with the RBI and mixer and the use the bass amp's tone controls to fine tune your stage sound.

The VT Bass DI is a DI. Normally you would plug into the VT Bass DI "first" and send the un-effected parallel out to your bass amp and use it as you normally do and send the XLR out of the VT Bass DI to the mixer. You "can" use it as a stomp box as well but you need to make sure everything is gain staged properly. Do you have the 1/4" output set for instrument level? If it's set for the 10dB boost you could be overloading your amp's preamp. Try using the pedal by itself into either your amp's aux in or post efx return so you can bypass your amp's preamp. That's the best way to hear what the pedal can do and then try putting it in front of your amp once you get a handle on it. As for the cross talk or bleed through with the Blend control at minimum, some early units had this issue and there was a component change in later units to fix this. If you pedal in still in the warranty period this could be sent in for a warranty repair.

Our Bass Driver DI was originally intended for DI use. You would run the SansAmp out to the PA and send the parallel out to your bass rig and use that as you stage sound and the SansAmp for your DI sound. The Bass Driver was meant to get a very specific sound easily without a lot of fuss. People complain about the mid scoop but that has to do with running it into the front end of an amp that already has it's own EQ shape and usually a built in mid scoop. If you want more midrange control and you plan on using the product into your amp vs the mixer we suggest our Para Driver DI which has a sweepable midrange control or our VT Bass products. Because our SansAmp products are emulating a vintage tube amp in its entirety they tend to work best in front of an amp that is set for a more flat response. You can also use the Blend control to give you more of your amp's inherent tone if desired.

Using the headphone jack on the VT Bass 500 mutes the power amp. You can run the amp with nothing plugged into the speaker jack. You can also plug a dummy cable into the efx receive jack and engage the efx loop. This will interrupt the signal to the power amp. In regard to volume it's not always easy to compare unless two given amps are set very clean and are driving the same speaker systems. It seems everyone wants a high powered 5 lb amp head and a light 210 cab and expect it to keep up with an SVT driving an 810. It's not happening. You still need speakers. Our designer was playing the VT Bass 500 last week hooked up to two of our 410 cabinets. It is LOUD. You just can't beat having 8 speakers moving air.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1440576643' post='2852003'] I've used a few T21 products in the past and had to abandon them all due to lack of flexibility WRT to the speaker simulation. You guys have arguably the best solid state drive sound in the industry and yet are determined to hobble certain products in the eyes of at least some of your potential customers for want of including a button than would add negligible production cost, I just don't see the logic behind it. This isn't just about the VTBass, I just cant understand why all T21 products don't have defeatable speaker sim as standard, ideally separate controls for amp output and DI. [/quote] It helps to understand the design of the amp. The VT Bass was designed to sound like it does from the ground up. It wasn't designed to sound like the speaker output of an Ampeg amp and then we added speaker emulation. The speaker emulation is part of the sound. You are also forgetting the topology of the design. An actual tube amp has no tone controls after the output section and speaker. The VT Bass does. The Low, Mid and High controls are capable of 18dB of boost or cut. Those controls are post Drive, Character and Speaker emulation. Just for our own edification we set up the VT Bass 500 with two of our passive 410 cabs and compared the amp and then used the VT Bass DI as a preamp into the efx return. We disengaged the speaker sim at higher distortion setting and there was the top end fizz. We then turned the speaker sim back on and turned up the treble control and could pretty much match the fizzy sound. This would be even more pronounced in a full range cab. Please note that we did not find this a desirable sound. If the Blend control is set at minimum the amp operates like a typical bass amp set clean.