Session fees....?

[RhysP]

Out of the blue I've been contacted by a local recording studio (where I've done some recording in the past) & asked if I'd be interested in doing session work for the singer/songwriters they get in from time to time.

I'm very pleased & flattered to be asked but they want me to let them know how much I will charge for the session & to be honest I haven't got a clue where to start.

Are there standard rates for this sort of thing?
Do you charge by the hour or some other method?

Any advice would be appreciated. Ta!

[Pkomor]

As far as I know its by the hour and around £40 an hour, I could be way off though!

[sockdeluxe_mikey]

My quickest advice - even if you aren't a member, contact the Musician's Union and see what they say as I'm guessing it's a pretty straight up questions and they won't mind answering it.

If you do end up becoming a member as well, there are template contracts available that can be arranged for most situations (including sessions like this) which will avoid them being tempted to stiff you at all, plus the other countless benefits you get through it.

Nice one though! I have not had any legitimate paid sessions yet, so much kudos ^_^

[JTUK]

If it were me, I'd set a day rate fee for 8 hours of £150...but
to start off with a guide would be £50 for a 3 hr shift. If this is your first gig, be flexible.
What do the other guys get, you could ask that and accept the same which seems the fairest.
Remember, costs rack up so don't kill the goose.

This does not sound a very formal session set-up so take it for what it is...an introduction and a chance to get involved
and set your price accordingly. The first thing is to get another call, so take this into account in this enviroment.

Edited June 18, 2010 by JTUK

[RhysP]

[quote name='JTUK' post='871044' date='Jun 18 2010, 06:59 PM']This does not sound a very formal session set-up so take it for what it is...an introduction and a chance to get involved
and set your price accordingly. The first thing is to get another call, so take this into account in this enviroment.[/quote]
This is what I was thinking - I'm more interested in getting asked back than making a fast buck.

[acidbass]

[quote name='RhysP' post='871075' date='Jun 18 2010, 07:39 PM']This is what I was thinking - I'm more interested in getting asked back than making a fast buck.[/quote]

+1 - I'd much rather have 10 sessions at £50 each than one at £500.

[Major-Minor]

Last night I had a 2 hour "jingle" session for which i will be paid the correct MU rate of £103. This is an all rights buy out - there will be no further residual payments ie when the jingle is broadcast i will not get further royalties.

You need to check what the ultimate usage of your performance will be for. As has been mentioned, there are proper rates for these things set by the MU (which I strongly advise you to join). They will also check contracts for you and advise you on your performance rights.

If the recording is destined for commercial release (ie not a demo), the studio should ask you to sign a release form (if they don't, its quite likely to be a dodgy set-up) . This is where you give your permission for the material to be used and exploited in any way the owner of the recording (the guy who pays you) wishes.

If you only get paid a small sum, and the recording then becomes a worldwide hit, you will be kicking yourself that you didn't get a proper fee. And if you don't sign that form, there will be no record of who the bass player was on the session, and then you won't be able to join PPL (Phonographic Performance Limited) and get residual payments that way.

This whole "business" side of the music industry is a mine-field for unsuspecting newbies. You need all the help and advise you can get or, like so many others, you will be taken for a ride.

I'm not a union minded person - far from it - but the MU is the only body which represents the interests of working musicians. They have a good legal dept and know all there is to know about the biz. I have been a member for well over 40 years and have had to turn to them several times for help with dodgy agents / promoters / record companies etc. They haven't been able to solve every problem but they certainly tried their best.

For instance, I once did a session for an indie band, whose record company were run by a very well known Manchester based entrepreneur (recently deceased). I didn't get a contract at the time (stupid me) and of course when that company then went bust, I got no money ! Ant--- Wi---- of course was still a very rich man. But I had no proof I'd been there. So the MU was unable to get my dosh despite trying very hard.

So beware !


The Major

[MacDaddy]

Another possibility could be to negotiate free recording/rehearsal time with the studio for your band.

[benebass]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='871133' date='Jun 18 2010, 09:13 PM']For instance, I once did a session for an indie band, whose record company were run by a very well known Manchester based entrepreneur (recently deceased). I didn't get a contract at the time (stupid me) and of course when that company then went bust, I got no money ! Ant--- Wi---- of course was still a very rich man. But I had no proof I'd been there. So the MU was unable to get my dosh despite trying very hard.[/quote]

Sound advice - I've met a few people recently who helped out on sessions & found they didn't even have a credit when things took off for the singer/songwriter they were backing.

Not trying to derail the thread, but I read Peter Hook's book about the Hacienda recently & couldn't believe how bad Ant--- Wi---- was with money - probably because it usually wasn't usually his own cash I guess.

Just out of interest, who was the session for? Always thought the last Happy Mondays album was polished up by session men to make it fit for a release!

Cheers,

B.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='benebass' post='871347' date='Jun 18 2010, 11:36 PM']Just out of interest, who was the session for? Always thought the last Happy Mondays album was polished up by session men to make it fit for a release![/quote]
I'm not very good with names ! But I seem to remember Monkeys came into the band's name. Space Monkeys ? something like that ...

I should make it clear that I was playing DB in a small string section - maybe 6 or 8 players. None of us got paid, and neither did the studio, the producer or the engineers.

AW was very bad with money alright .... other peoples ! He had plenty of his own !


The Major

[JTUK]

From the OP, it sounds like the Singer/Songwriters are at demo level so pitch accordingly and my hint about mounting costs could be the differnece between them and you doing it or not.

If the ante is higher then get a more formal arrangemnet as above.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='JTUK' post='871743' date='Jun 19 2010, 02:24 PM']From the OP, it sounds like the Singer/Songwriters are at demo level so pitch accordingly and my hint about mounting costs could be the differnece between them and you doing it or not.

If the ante is higher then get a more formal arrangemnet as above.[/quote]
+1

[benebass]

Yeah - Space Monkeys sounds about right. That was part of his Factory Too label - after the first Factory had gone bust. I think he even did a third Factory label after this second one folded...

Cheers,

B.

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='871538' date='Jun 19 2010, 09:51 AM']I'm not very good with names ! But I seem to remember Monkeys came into the band's name. Space Monkeys ? something like that ...

I should make it clear that I was playing DB in a small string section - maybe 6 or 8 players. None of us got paid, and neither did the studio, the producer or the engineers.

AW was very bad with money alright .... other peoples ! He had plenty of his own !


The Major[/quote]

[RhysP]

[quote name='JTUK' post='871743' date='Jun 19 2010, 02:24 PM']From the OP, it sounds like the Singer/Songwriters are at demo level so pitch accordingly and my hint about mounting costs could be the difference between them and you doing it or not.

If the ante is higher then get a more formal arrangement as above.[/quote]

I'm actually recording the bass parts for an album (the artists third) that's being released at the end of July.
It's a small project though that is being financed by the artist. The fact that most of the songs are in Welsh pretty much guarantees it isn't going to be a global smash hit, unless it goes platinum in Patagonia.

[JTUK]

ok..Album is good, but a lot of artists get by with a sort of 'career' with sales ITRO of 10,000 or less
It depends how they finance it..
Some of these guys get an advance from a record company to make the album...but that would apply to licensing across Europe.
Your market is likely smaller. In this case..and being the new boy..make it as easy as possible and say yeah, you'll do it for the same studio day rate as the others and make sure they know you are being decent on this.
You may well find the whole deal has a budget of £1500-2000 or so..and that may include printing and pressing...so you'll likely have to get done in a day and a bit...use the same sound on all tracks, and be very quick on any cleanups/mistakes.

I assume the studio isn't going to add a 'cost' to you getting the job via them so can you speak to the artist direct to determine your fee?
You don't want to be too cheap..as a good job costs, bla bla, but you don't want to blow this one out of the water either.

I am suprised the studio hasn't told you the deal. Call up the gtr or other muso's on the date, ask to hear his stuff to gauge what the standard of end product is going to be like.

There can be a lot of BS about this sort of stuff and the rates people think they can charge as opposed to what the artist can pay.

I'd be thinking about how long it will take, who is on it and what the sales can achieve.
Ask the guy straight out.."what can you pay me ?" and establish a good working rapport so you get to do the next one...

[Major-Minor]

It's perhaps worth pointing out that the rates the MU set are MINIMUM rates. If you can negotiate a higher fee, then good luck to you !

The Major

[RhysP]

Thanks to everyone who offered me advice on this.

I'm going into the studio on Monday to record four tracks for the artists new album, and I'm being paid a fee that both myself & the artist are happy with.

Looking forward to it but I'm quite nervous too. I'm very aware that how I perform next week could make a difference between me being offered more work in the future or not.

[Faithless]

As lame as it sounds - just [i]calm down[/i], dude.. The key, I think, is to concentrate on the current work, not thinking too much (or at all) about future..

[RhysP]

[quote name='Faithless' post='884264' date='Jul 2 2010, 07:33 PM']As lame as it sounds - just [i]calm down[/i], dude.. The key, I think, is to concentrate on the current work, not thinking too much (or at all) about future..[/quote]
I took your advice & it worked.

Did my session today - I was pretty happy with my playing, the artist was extremely pleased with what I did & has asked me if I'd be willing to play bass in his live band.
All in all it was one of the most enjoyable days I've had for ages.

[shaundixon666]

[quote name='RhysP' post='886606' date='Jul 5 2010, 07:29 PM']I took your advice & it worked.

Did my session today - I was pretty happy with my playing, the artist was extremely pleased with what I did & has asked me if I'd be willing to play bass in his live band.
All in all it was one of the most enjoyable days I've had for ages. [/quote]

Congrats on not only getting through the recording process but also getting offered to play it live too. You must be very pleased with yourself

[RhysP]

[quote name='shaundixon666' post='886643' date='Jul 5 2010, 08:32 PM']Congrats on not only getting through the recording process but also getting offered to play it live too. You must be very pleased with yourself [/quote]
Thanks!
It's just been really nice to get a positive response to something that I really enjoy doing.
I've never been the most confident person & doing this bit of work has just given me such a boost.