Mr.T Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I have been thinking for a while about building myself a pair of 12" cabs. Something along the lines of my Aggie GS112nt, but with more definition and punch. I don't think that I like tweeters as I always use my 2x10 neo with the tweeter off. I am torn between using either Deltalite 2512 or Kappalite 3012 drivers, and wondering.... What is the 'real world' difference between these drivers in terms of tone and loudness? Also.... How would either of these drivers compare with the standard unit fitted to the Aggie? (I have read that some people have upgraded their GS's with the Deltalites). Thoughts and opinions please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I think the standard ones in GS cabs are near enough Delta 12LFA, [url="http://www.music123.com/Eminence-Delta-12LFA-12--Bass-Speaker-667708-i1153805.Music123"]suggested as replacements here.[/url] [quote]# Thiele & small parameters # Resonant Frequency (fs): 51Hz # DC Resistance (Re): 6.06 # Coil Inductance (Le): 1.45mH # Mechanical Q (Qms): 7.28 # Electromagnetic Q (Qes): 0.51 # Total Q (Qts): 0.47 # Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas): 67.9 liters / 2.4 cu. ft. # Peak Diaphragm Displacement Volume (Vd): 243cc # Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms): 0.19mm/N # BL Product (BL): 14.1 T-M # Diaphram Mass inc. Airload (Mms): 51 grams # Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP): 100 # Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax): 4.8mm # Surface Area of Cone (Sd): 506.7 cm2 # Maximum Mechanical Limit (Xlim): 13.5mm[/quote] Compared to the Deltalite: [quote]Resonant Frequency (fs) 37Hz DC Resistance (Re) 5.04 Coil Inductance (Le) 0.46mH Mechanical Q (Qms) 3.13 Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.44 Total Q (Qts) 0.39 Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 147 liters / 5.2 cu.ft. Peak Diaphragm Displacement Volume (Vd) 255cc Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.38mm/N BL Product (BL) 11.3 T-M Diaphram Mass inc. Airload (Mms) 49 grams Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP) 84 Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 4.9mm Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 519.5 cm2 Maximum Mechanical Limit (Xlim) 8.5mm[/quote] Think they aren't far apart, but not my area of expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanP2008 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I've been looking at 12" speakers for bass cabs, and if you want a Neo, the Kapplite 3012LF looks like a good bet. One problem with many 12's for bass is that they are often excursion limited at very low freqs. Low E and Low B strings... You can't use them anywhere near their max rated power... The 3012LF has an Xmax of 9.1mm (comparatively large) and Xlim of 14.5mm - both very good for a 12. Also, it has a decent sensitivity of 95.5dB, whereas many of the other LF speakers have rather lower sensitivity... Better though, is the 3015LF, with sensitivity of almost 100dB - Loud! (but that's a 15). Play with it in WinISD, and see what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 [quote name='AlanP2008' post='737444' date='Feb 6 2010, 05:57 PM']I've been looking at 12" speakers for bass cabs, and if you want a Neo, the Kapplite 3012LF looks like a good bet. One problem with many 12's for bass is that they are often excursion limited at very low freqs. Low E and Low B strings... You can't use them anywhere near their max rated power... The 3012LF has an Xmax of 9.1mm (comparatively large) and Xlim of 14.5mm - both very good for a 12. Also, it has a decent sensitivity of 95.5dB, whereas many of the other LF speakers have rather lower sensitivity... Better though, is the 3015LF, with sensitivity of almost 100dB - Loud! (but that's a 15). Play with it in WinISD, and see what you think.[/quote] Think cause its a woofer driver, you get weird in the mids and rolls off loads as it goes higher, needs to be paired with a midrange speaker plus crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nig Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I have 2 gk 12 neos, one went pop and due to the crap and overpriced nonsense from gk and tohmann I opted for a celestion 300x neo, great speaker, affordable and you cant tell it apart from the twice price gk eminence. it was 74 quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 [quote name='AlanP2008' post='737444' date='Feb 6 2010, 05:57 PM']Play with it in WinISD, and see what you think.[/quote] I haven't really got the time (or inclination) to get into modelling, etc. Hence my idea to basically copy the Aggie design (which works fine) and fit suitable drivers. From what I have read over at TBass the Deltalite ii 2512 is looking favourite.... so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanP2008 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='737616' date='Feb 6 2010, 09:02 PM']Think cause its a woofer driver, you get weird in the mids and rolls off loads as it goes higher, needs to be paired with a midrange speaker plus crossover.[/quote] Yes, it does indeed. However, it appears to do a really superior job at the bottom end, which is where the real challenge is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Here are a few pics. of my cab build... [attachment=44458:1x12_c.jpg] [attachment=44457:1x12_b.jpg] [attachment=44456:1x12_a.jpg] I haven't saved any weight over the GS112NT due to the 10 metres of bracing, 100 screws and lots of glue! Although as they will use neos, they will weigh in at approx. 30lbs. each with the drivers fitted. This is my first cab build and woodwork isn't really my thing, so I decided to build them how I build my bikes and cars..... STRONG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMT3781 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 they look great , what wood are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 [quote name='JMT3781' post='769017' date='Mar 9 2010, 11:28 AM']they look great , what wood are you using?[/quote] Thanks. 12mm Ply for the cabs. 12mm x 40mm Ply and 20 x 20mm pine for the bracing. The aim was to get the cabs as 'dead' sounding as I could, while keeping within my weight target. I have tested quite a few cabs recently and they vibrate like a washing machine on the spin cycle! These don't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Just love the bracing! You cannot buy a cabinet in the shops that's as well built as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 (edited) The DeltaLites are really great in the GS cabs!!!! I really miss mine Edited March 9, 2010 by gillento Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 [quote name='gillento' post='769402' date='Mar 9 2010, 04:38 PM']The DeltaLites are really great in the GS cabs!!!! I really miss mine [/quote] Did the Deltalites have as much bottom end as the original drivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Mr.T' post='769881' date='Mar 9 2010, 11:53 PM']Did the Deltalites have as much bottom end as the original drivers?[/quote] Yes, in my opinion, they have. Although because of the "added" hi mids, the cabs may sound lighter in the lows. When you lower the hi mids a bit you'll discover that the lows are still there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='gillento' post='770119' date='Mar 10 2010, 09:57 AM']Yes, in my opinion, they have. Although because of the "added" hi mids, the cabs may sound lighter in the lows. When you lower the hi mids a bit you'll discover that the lows are still there[/quote] Thanks. The possible lack of lows was my only concern with the Deltalites, the GS driver gave me all the bottom end I needed with my 2x10 adding clarity and attack. I have used the new cabs at home and they certainly sound a lot brighter than the GS. They 'seem' to do the job of my 1x12 + 2x10 set-up. .... A gig on Saturday will be the proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Finished! [attachment=45621:Rig.JPG] .... and sounding good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylewis Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 [quote name='Mr.T' post='785663' date='Mar 25 2010, 11:48 AM']Finished! [attachment=45621:Rig.JPG] .... and sounding good. [/quote] .... very nice! Have you thought about making them for others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Nice job and great result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Great job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted March 26, 2010 Author Share Posted March 26, 2010 [quote name='guylewis' post='786825' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:18 PM'].... very nice! Have you thought about making them for others?[/quote] I could be persuaded... Although I openly make no claim to be an acoustic scientist, and had some help with the port sizes from a fellow BC'er (Thanks Stevie). I basically 'cloned' a proven design and improved it with additional bracing, quality drivers, etc. To anyone thinking of building their own, it has to be said... It is not a cheap option and is VERY time consuming to do properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 My band had been forced to take a couple of months off, but we are now back gigging again, so..... I finally have had a chance to use the cabs as a pair, at full gigging volume, with the loudest drummer in the world. They performed excellently. Plenty of lows, mids and top end. I think it was the first gig I have played (since selling my Trace rig) that: 1). I didn't touch my EQ all night. 2). I could hear every note with equal clarity.... up close and out front! 3). I could use the bridge pick-up on my Status without it getting lost and sounding weedy. Both my guitarist and drummer commented on how 'clear' these cabs sounded.... praise indeed. And the added bonus.... After the gig, I carried them out to my car one in each hand. If anyone out there is thinking of building something similar.... do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I've maybe missed this but did you use the 2512 drivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 [quote name='Bigwan' post='828255' date='May 5 2010, 10:59 AM']I've maybe missed this but did you use the 2512 drivers?[/quote] Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 The Deltalite 2512 has a very high Vas - so in a small cab it has a big upper-bass 'hump' that will be good for some players and will give a perception of strong bass although my worry would be that some people (like me) would find them boomy. The Kappalites should have more true bass capability and a less humped response in a smaller box, and for a clear tone I'd go for the 3012HO rather than LF - it still has plenty of excursion and will function better without a separate midrange. Also the higher sensitivity is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Would 60 litres be classed as a 'small' cab for a 12" driver? They are a similar size to the Aggie 12's, and I don't hear too many people complaining about a lack of low-end from those. But hey.... Horses for courses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.