What are you transcribing at the moment?

[urb]

[quote name='JMT3781' post='932810' date='Aug 22 2010, 03:17 PM']Yeah.. don't mess otherwise a moderator will stick up for me

only kidding

I'm blessed with the memory of an elephant, so its very rare i write anything down, if i do, is a random stream of chords symbols, rhythm marks and the swear words lol.[/quote]



Well I happen to agree and be similar to you as well - while I love sitting down and working things out note for note, my approach these days is more about absorbing the principles of a theoretical idea and really getting it locked in to my playing - but also when I'm playing with other musicians just listening and (hopefully) reacting in the correct manner to what the song or situation requries. I also have a good long term memory - but don't ask me what I had for breakfast yesterday...

[Doddy]

I always class transcribing as when you write it out. I do alot of song learning without writing anything down,but
I don't class it as transcription. To me,learning by ear and transcribing to manuscript are two very different things.

[Faithless]

[quote name='Doddy' post='932822' date='Aug 22 2010, 05:38 PM']To me,learning by ear and transcribing to manuscript are two very different things.[/quote]


+1... And this is what this thread is about..

Or should I change the name of it to 'What are you writing out to manuscript right now'?

[JMT3781]

Fair enough..

Just to maintain my credibility on this thread... i recently transcribed Green Day's "wake me up when september ends" for a student

[Faithless]

Ok, chaps, here it goes..

I didn't have time to learn it thoroughly, so I can't post video doing Pino thang yet, but transcription is there..

[attachment=57235:JM___Goo...assline_.pdf]

it's from this live album:

Edited August 22, 2010 by Faithless

[JakeBrownBass]

Currently transcribing the hardest thing i've tried.

Col. Bruce Hampton & the Aquarium Rescue Unit - Its Not The Same Old Thing.

Its a great bassline from Oteil Burbridge and will take me atleast acouple of weeks to get down but i'm loving the challenge.

[Joe Hubbard Bass]

When transcribing always remember that figuring out and writing down the notes is only the first step. Next, thoroughly learn what you have transcribed and be able to play along with the recording replicating the piece with all the different articulation nuance.

[i]Remember in Vic Wooten's book - The Music Lesson - when the teacher advises the student that one of the hidden secrets to understanding music was jamming with musicians that are better than you? When the student replies, he makes excuses how he will never be able to jam with the likes of Mike Stern or Herbie Hancock. Of course the teacher is reffering to playing with records.[/i]

Transcribing and then learning to play what you have transcribed fluently will enable you to understand the attributes used by the players you are transcribing. It is clearly the only way to learn by osmosis from other musicians without actually playing with other musicians.

Another important point to focus on is the time spent doing this. Depending on your level you should be spending at least a month on every transcription you are working on- sometimes many months.

Hope that was helpful.

Peace

Joe

Edited August 25, 2010 by Joe Hubbard Bass

[mcgraham]

[quote]Another important point to focus on is the time spent doing this. Depending on your level you should be spending at least a month on every transcription you are working on- sometimes many months.[/quote]

I've really slacked off on transcribing of late. Been concentrating on my own arrangements. However, this is a sharp wake-up call that I should be transcribing more, and transcribing stuff that challenges me, rather than stuff I can just work out on the fly.

[funkypenguin]

At the moment, im working on the live version of Summer Rain by the Hiromi Trio (inc. the bass solo), Family by Matt Garrison and Chasing Shadows by Tony Grey

[Joe Hubbard Bass]

Also remember to balance what you work on in regard to YOUR goals as a player.

Rhythmically, Western music is broken down into 3- catagories:

1) 8ths
2) 16ths
3) Triplets

The 4th catagory is the swing time conversion to 8ths & 16ths.

In regard to genre, focus on bass lines that cover all of these rhythm structures. After you have developed a vocabulary in bass lines that are functional, move on to adding some solos to your list for transcription. Don't make the mistake of only transcribing solos. Also, Do NOT make the mistake of basing what you do on technical tricks. By all means learn some tricks, but it has to be based on the music- the music always comes first.

Peace

Joe

Edited August 25, 2010 by Joe Hubbard Bass

[Doddy]

Just as a quick aside.... Joe Hubbard's book 'Basslines' was one of the first books I bought when I started playing,and it
really kicked my ass at the time.It also really helped me with my reading due to it's lack of tab (Yay!).
Thanks for that Joe.

Also,as the book features transcriptions of Jaco,Stanley,Marcus and King,Joe obviously knows what he's talking
about regarding transcribing.

Later

Paul.

[Joe Hubbard Bass]

[quote name='Doddy' post='936249' date='Aug 25 2010, 06:55 PM']Just as a quick aside.... Joe Hubbard's book 'Basslines' was one of the first books I bought when I started playing,and it
really kicked my ass at the time.It also really helped me with my reading due to it's lack of tab (Yay!).
Thanks for that Joe.

Also,as the book features transcriptions of Jaco,Stanley,Marcus and King,Joe obviously knows what he's talking
about regarding transcribing.

Later

Paul.[/quote]



Hi Paul

Glad you enjoyed Basslines. I have never been a fan of tablature. My philosophy is that when someone makes a conscious decision to be a musician then they should take the appropriate steps to learning the language of music. Although there is an argument that exists that there are extraordinary players who can’t read music and don’t have any real working knowledge about melody, rhythm or harmony, these cases are few and far between and in most cases these players are extremely one dimensional in what they can actually do.

However, there are the players who can read, but can’t actually play. To be complete, you need to define:

1) Who you are: Attributes (musical, physical, mental, emotional and spiritual)
2) What you know: Skill (technical, tactical, conceptual and interpersonal)
3) What you can do: Play (real-time musical expression in a variety of musical settings)

Peace

Joe

[endorka]

[quote name='Joe Hubbard Bass' post='936021' date='Aug 25 2010, 02:37 PM']Another important point to focus on is the time spent doing this. Depending on your level you should be spending at least a month on every transcription you are working on- sometimes many months.[/quote]

Joe,

If you have time, I'd be really interested to hear about the process you go through to realise a transcription such as this?

Jennifer

[Joe Hubbard Bass]

[quote name='endorka' post='936779' date='Aug 26 2010, 09:16 AM']Joe,

If you have time, I'd be really interested to hear about the process you go through to realise a transcription such as this?

Jennifer[/quote]


No problem- the precursor to transcription is listening. Make sure you do not skip this vital step. I always set aside time just to listen to things that I like and feel drawn towards wanting to learn. When I was at Berklee I had the great opportunity to spend some real quality time with Buster Williams. Buster was gigging with Ron Carter’s band when Ron was doing that piccolo thing. Buster and I had a mutual friend and during the week he was in Boston Buster virtually moved into my apartment. Buster taught me the importance of spending hours listening to all kinds of music. During that time Buster used to go through my record collection and proceed to analyse everything that was happening and explain it to me on the fly. We must have spent at least 4-hours a day doing this and then we would go to the gig. So the first step is to listen to what you are about to transcribe.

Then sit down and go through the piece note-by-note, annotating the music to paper as you go. Depending on what you are transcribing this can be time consuming while striving for accuracy. Once you have everything written out, learn to play what you have transcribed with all the nuance and characteristics of the original performance in real time with the recording.

After this phase, it’s now time to start recognising the characteristic phrases from the transcribed solo or bass line. Start to isolate and loop sections, transpose through keys, create exercises and drills to help you inculcate the “generic essence” of that particular player’s attributes.

This progression works well, but the prerequisite is that you have a solid grounding in music (rhythm, melody and harmony) and a decent technical facility to play what you want to transcribe.

Peace

Joe

Edited August 26, 2010 by Joe Hubbard Bass

[endorka]

Thanks for that Joe.

I've usually spent less time on my transcriptions, sometimes by omitting the deep analysis stage of the process you detail above due to time constraints, or the playing stage, if the transcription has been undertaken as part of writing an arrangement for other instruments.

I can definitely see the benefits to your approach, however, so in future will attempt to set aside more time for analysis of some of the pieces that really appeal to me, including those for other instruments.

Do you think there is utility in performing "quick" transcriptions, or even just playing along with a track and seeing how much you can work out without stopping the track? Sometimes I have to do this due to time constraints, and I find it beneficial, although to some extent it does seem to emphasise different part of the ear/brain/hand connection than the more detailed process you describe.

Jennifer

[Colledge]

i'm not actually transcribing it technically, but i will do once Ive learn it by ear.
Propeller by paul gilbert. some really cool basslines and a pretty good bass solo in the middle.

[Joe Hubbard Bass]

[quote name='endorka' post='938999' date='Aug 28 2010, 07:50 PM']Do you think there is utility in performing "quick" transcriptions, or even just playing along with a track and seeing how much you can work out without stopping the track? Sometimes I have to do this due to time constraints, and I find it beneficial, although to some extent it does seem to emphasise different part of the ear/brain/hand connection than the more detailed process you describe.[/quote]

I guess anything is better than just sitting on the sofa. At some point you may have to quickly transcribe some tunes for a gig because of a deadline, but aimlessly jamming along with records with no end goal in mind will end up giving the player a false sense of security. Of course all of this a dependant on "who you are", "what you know" and "what you can do." Your overall development is timeless and has no deadline; if you worked on 5 transcribed pieces this year and did it thouroughly, it would supercede the benifit of rushing through 50 tunes half arsed. Just my opinion.

Peace

Joe

[endorka]

Thanks Joe. I'm trying to work out a plan for long term musical development at the moment, and that is really helpful.

Jennifer

[TheFear]

Im currently trying to transcribe joydrop - beutiful but im struggling to hell with it, so if anyone can help me out with some tabs etc i would appreciate it

[Doddy]

[quote name='TheFear' post='971247' date='Sep 28 2010, 11:09 PM']Im currently trying to transcribe joydrop - beutiful but im struggling to hell with it, so if anyone can help me out with some tabs etc i would appreciate it[/quote]

Thus defeating the whole purpose of transcribing. The whole point of transcribing is to listen to something and then notate
what you hear. Persevere with it,without tabs,and you'll get it eventually.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

The bass solo from Magnetic Ocean by Incognito.

[quote name='Faithless' post='715237' date='Jan 16 2010, 10:57 PM']You saw the question..

Let it be 6-chorus Coltrane solo on Giant Steps, or just simple accompanying The Police bass-part..

I'm basically interested, in what fellow bassists do transcribe.. So we could share, and maybe catch some suggestions from each other to work on..


I've just started working on Berklee Woodwind Head's, saxophonists, Bill Pierce's solo on a plain 12-bar blues..[/quote]

[endorka]

[quote name='Doddy' post='971296' date='Sep 29 2010, 12:36 AM']Thus defeating the whole purpose of transcribing. The whole point of transcribing is to listen to something and then notate
what you hear. Persevere with it,without tabs,and you'll get it eventually.[/quote]

I agree with Doddy, but perhaps with some clarification.

When transcribing as part of a learning process, I find it useful to compare other people's transcriptions with my own as a means of error checking, but only after I have completed mine. If you short circuit this process, then you are cheating yourself, and improvements in your transcription technique will take longer to happen.

If you are having real difficulty with this tune, perhaps it would be best to work on something not quite as complex or clearer, and revisit it in the future when you are more experienced at transcribing.

On the other hand, it may be that you need to learn this song for a gig and are running out of time, in which case it is perfectly valid to seek out other people's transcriptions!

Jennifer

[Faithless]

Transcribed 9 choruses of Ray Brown's bassline on "C Jam Blues", from "Night Train" with O. Peterson.

The man has some licks

Also finished transcribing bassline on Common's - Real People (Live on Lettermann)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq8hfvl0AjY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq8hfvl0AjY[/url]

Started working on Chet Baker's Autumn Leaves.
Finished the head, will now be moving on Chet's and P Desmonds solos, and, altogether, working on Ron Carter's bassline on this very take..

Also doing some electric stuff, it's Hubert Eaves' line on Erykah Badu's - On And On (Live 1997)



Now I'm asking for some wisdom on working on transcribed walking basslines - well, it's not a solo, and it's difficult to move one around all keys, the best bet for me is to move it to nearest keys from the original..
But somehow, I feel, that this is not enough.

How do you internalize transcribed walking line?
Mr. Hubbard, do you have any thoughts on this?

Edited September 29, 2010 by Faithless

[Faithless]

Finished transcribing H.Eaves' line on Erykah Badu's "On and On"..

a very nice tune, you can check it out (it's not the same one I've been transcribing):




And, about walking bassline transcription.. I messaged Mr. Hubbard about this issue, and here's what I've got, I think it's very useful advice:


[i]"
- Try Chunking it down to 2 & 4 bar phrases. Complicated things are just simple things strung together, bo break it down.

- Look for chracteristic ideas within the transcription itself. Ask yourself, what are the passages that just jump out and grab you?

- You can easily transpose this to all keys, but you may have to do some alterations with fingerings and octave displacements. You just have to play with it for awhile. However, if you are getting bogged down with key transposition, just take it through 3 or 4 keys. You'll probably get the jist of it by then.

- Try to take the ideas you have learned and write more walking lines over different harmonic structures. You don't want to just use those ideas on something identical harmonically; you need to make it part of your vocabulary so you can use it anywhere, anytime, with anyone and over anything."[/i]


Thanks, Joe!

Faith

[Faithless]

Let's see..

Finished Miles solo on Autumn Leaves ("Something Else" 1958 with C Adderley);
Ron Carter's bassline and Chet Baker's and Paul Desmond's solos on the same tune;
Willie Weeks' "Hey Girl" from "Live" Donny Hathaway's album;


Now working on Lester Young's solo on Count Basie's "You Can Depend On Me"


Oh, and also I'm working on [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=117699"]this [/url]list, trying to dig out not only bassline, but chords also..
List should be completed in a few months..