Moos3h Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Hi all, I have been reading with interest the barefaced site and really like the idea of something a touch more portable than my Eden Nemesis 4x10. However, I often need a LOT of output, and the Eden is still a very sensitive cab. I have a very loud drummer and no P.A. support so need tons of headroom. Would one BF Compact cut it or should I be looking elsewhere in the range? I would also, despite what the website says, prefer a 4 ohm cab, as I'd rather run my GK head at the 300w (4 Ohm) output than 200w (8 Ohm). Funds are not limitless, sadly, so I do need to think carefully about which direction I go in. Thanks for any help in advance. Thanks James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Put some castors on the 410 while you're saving up for a Big One, Vintage or 2 Compacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Balsamic Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 What about the Double Midget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 My 'guess' is that if you want the full range of a 4x10 and the horn, then you'll need a horn in your next cab...as a 15" on its own will be quite a let-down Also, to get a balanced set of views, google is useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 I don't think I'll miss the horn really, as I normally have it pretty much off (perhaps on 2 or 3) on the Eden anyway, as I'm not a massive fan of overly tweeter-ish sounds anyway. I'm more interested in how room filling and BIG the BF Compact would sound versus my cab. I guess the only real way is to try it I suppose. At last night's gig, I was running out of steam as it was! I can't afford to have any dip in output at all or I may as well not bother turning up to gigs Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tut Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Have you thought about one of the Nemesis 1 x 15? I've got the 1 x 15 and the 4 x 10 and I reckon the 15 trumps the 4x10 hands down! Very manageable also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electriccheese Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think the Compact would be enough loud with more watts. With 500w @ 8 Ohms would be very very loud. I have one and I can push it with a Thunderfunk 750A at max volume without farting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) With your current amp a Compact definitely won't be loud enough. The D.M. will be similar in max SPL to your Nemesis when driven by your amp but it'll be a close run thing. The Vintage will beat the Nemesis but you could probably guess that from its size! Double or triple the power you have to play with and it'll be a different story with even the Compact likely to play louder and cleaner than the Nemesis. Eden make loud cabs and size for size they match mine when driven with lower power amps - it's when you have more power to play with that when the difference becomes clear but unless you go for a bigger cab and/or a more powerful amp you're not going to get any louder. Tonally, what kinds of sound do you go for? What music are you playing? What bass(es) do you usually play? Do you use that bit of tweeter on the Nemesis to get those extended tweetery highs or is it just to help you cut through and hear yourself? Alex Edited November 23, 2009 by alexclaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='King Tut' post='662101' date='Nov 22 2009, 08:40 PM']Have you thought about one of the Nemesis 1 x 15? I've got the 1 x 15 and the 4 x 10 and I reckon the 15 trumps the 4x10 hands down! Very manageable also.[/quote] Is the Nemesis 15" as loud as the 4x10"? I'll be really surprised if it is! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='662386' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:10 AM']With your current amp a Compact definitely won't be loud enough. The D.M. will be similar in max SPL to your Nemesis when driven by your amp but it'll be a close run thing. The Vintage will beat the Nemesis but you could probably guess that from its size! Double or triple the power you have to play with and it'll be a different story with even the Compact likely to play louder and cleaner than the Nemesis. Eden make loud cabs and size for size they match mine when driven with lower power amps - it's when you have more power to play with that when the difference becomes clear but unless you go for a bigger cab and/or a more powerful amp you're not going to get any louder. Tonally, what kinds of sound do you go for? What music are you playing? What bass(es) do you usually play? Do you use that bit of tweeter on the Nemesis to get those extended tweetery highs or is it just to help you cut through and hear yourself? Alex[/quote] Hi Alex, To answer your questions (and thanks in advance!) 1). Tonally - Clean and clear from the cab is the order of the day, the GK adds a bit of growl of its own, but I prefer a solid sound with no speaker 'flub' (yep, technical term there) and sometimes the Nemesis feels like it's struggling (although it could be the amp) 2). Music - Covers, all sorts...80's synth pop through to Kings of Leon and all points in between really. That said, I don't really try to emulate the sounds, rather stick with my own tone. 3). Basses - Both passive, one Jazz style (main axe) and one Precision style. Neither are particularly high output 4). Tweeter - Tends to be set at about 2 or 3 out of 10 as I found it too clicky and scratchy. Not sure I'd really miss it if it wasn't there. Thanks, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tut Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='662387' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:11 AM']Is the Nemesis 15" as loud as the 4x10"? I'll be really surprised if it is! Alex[/quote] . . . . ermm maybe I should've been a little more explicit. I wouldn't know how to measure each cabs loudness - but - I play in rock bands usually using a Trace AH 250. Seldom turn up more than 3 with either cab. I'm having loads of trouble dialling in a beefy sound with the 4x10, but the 1x15 does it for me every time - is it louder? - not too sure - gonna continue to work with the 4x10 though. Just to mention - the 4x10 is the 'RS' version where the 1x15 is the older version.# Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='King Tut' post='662400' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:34 AM']. . . . ermm maybe I should've been a little more explicit. I wouldn't know how to measure each cabs loudness - but - I play in rock bands usually using a Trace AH 250. Seldom turn up more than 3 with either cab. I'm having loads of trouble dialling in a beefy sound with the 4x10, but the 1x15 does it for me every time - is it louder? - not too sure - gonna continue to work with the 4x10 though. Just to mention - the 4x10 is the 'RS' version where the 1x15 is the older version.# Col[/quote] Hi Col, This is really interesting stuff, I might have to come to one of your gigs to have a listen! Do you gig around Herts at all? Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tut Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='Moos3h' post='662402' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:35 AM']Hi Col, This is really interesting stuff, I might have to come to one of your gigs to have a listen! Do you gig around Herts at all? Cheers, James[/quote] Nothing coming up James but plenty in Bucks - my gig list on my website is down at the moment but if you want me to send you a list, pm me. Regards Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='King Tut' post='662400' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:34 AM']. . . . ermm maybe I should've been a little more explicit. I wouldn't know how to measure each cabs loudness - but - I play in rock bands usually using a Trace AH 250. Seldom turn up more than 3 with either cab. I'm having loads of trouble dialling in a beefy sound with the 4x10, but the 1x15 does it for me every time - is it louder? - not too sure - gonna continue to work with the 4x10 though. Just to mention - the 4x10 is the 'RS' version where the 1x15 is the older version.[/quote] Well the obvious way to measure loudness (i.e. sensitivity) is to swap directly between cabs without moving any of the knobs on your amp. That doesn't tell you how loud the cabs will go because one will run out of power handling before the other, so the cab that is less sensitive (loud) may go louder because it farts out later. However our perception of loudness is affected by how clean the cab is (more distortion equals louder), how trebly/midrangey the cab is (more of that equals louder) and of course what we put into it (a bass with lots of low mids will make a low-midrangey cab sound louder than a cab which is scooped in the low-mids but louder elsewhere in the spectrum). I don't know if Eden have always used the same drivers on the Nemesis cabs - if they haven't then that could make a huge difference to the results. The RS cabs don't use the compressed composite construction so if they've tried to save weight to make up for that by using speakers with smaller magnets then that will have a direct effect on sensitivity, particularly in the midrange. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='Moos3h' post='662392' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:25 AM']1). Tonally - Clean and clear from the cab is the order of the day, the GK adds a bit of growl of its own, but I prefer a solid sound with no speaker 'flub' (yep, technical term there) and sometimes the Nemesis feels like it's struggling (although it could be the amp)[/quote] My guess is that you're getting a bit of both reaching their limits - I doubt the Nemesis can handle the full 300W in the lows but conversely I doubt you're always keeping within the amp's limits. The GK growl does seem to work well with my inherently clean sounding cabs, gives them some grrr that can be required. [quote name='Moos3h' post='662392' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:25 AM']2). Music - Covers, all sorts...80's synth pop through to Kings of Leon and all points in between really. That said, I don't really try to emulate the sounds, rather stick with my own tone. 3). Basses - Both passive, one Jazz style (main axe) and one Precision style. Neither are particularly high output 4). Tweeter - Tends to be set at about 2 or 3 out of 10 as I found it too clicky and scratchy. Not sure I'd really miss it if it wasn't there.[/quote] My gut feeling is that you don't really need a tweeter but I'd be more certain if you named/linked some tunes where you think "yes, that's my kind of bass sound" so I can have a listen and double-check. However it's all futile it you don't have enough power, as unless you're willing to cart a BIG cab then you'll need more power than you currently have to get enough loudness with one of the Barefaced stable. If you can pick up a GK700 or 1001 cheap then I think a D.M. would do a storming job. I think the Compact would beat your current rig with an amp like that pushing it but it sounds like you play LOUD so the extra output of the D.M. would be worth having. I don't think it's worth rushing a small change, better to hold off longer until you can make a big leap and then stop thinking about amplification for the next decade. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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