Changles Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Okay, I am sick of electric bass. I desperately want to play ARCO! An acoustic Double Bass would be too big to fit in my guitarist's little fiat punto, although I'd love to get one some day.... So I'm thinking of investing in an Electric Upright. I can't exactly afford a brilliant, top of the line one as I am financially challenged. I guess my budget is between £0 (ideal!) and £1000 (TOO FAR.) I have only just taken my first step into this exciting new world, in fact I have only snook a tiny peak. I am lost and confused, so any help, advice, suggestions, warnings, insults etc. are welcome. Thanks, -Changles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='Changles' post='657538' date='Nov 17 2009, 10:04 PM']An acoustic Double Bass would be too big to fit in my guitarist's little fiat punto, although I'd love to get one some day....[/quote] You'd be surprised- I've gotten my bass(a big one at that) +3 people into a Nissan Micra. Not really much help other than that I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude_b Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You should really get a proper upright and I just happen to be selling one that fits in your price range... However, they are cumbersome old lumps and I can understand why you might want an electric upright first. Personally, I've found it quite difficult to make the transition from electric (including fretless) to upright. I think the main reason is that, because of where I am in life at the moment, I just haven't been able to put in the practice I think you need. If you want to play upright properly I'd suggest getting a teacher, having lessons and being prepared to put in some serious groundwork. I've found the physicality of the upright is quite different too - particularly trying to get the strings down to the fretboard in higher registers. It depends what you want to play, of course. Generally speaking, folk is likely to be easier to pick up than jazz. My (limited) experience of electric uprights is that they're nothing like as difficult to play as "proper" uprights and it's possibly easier to wing it on an electric upright without developing correct DB technique. So going to electric upright first might be a bit misleading. Best of luck in any case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='jude_b' post='657600' date='Nov 17 2009, 10:59 PM']My (limited) experience of electric uprights is that they're nothing like as difficult to play as "proper" uprights and it's possibly easier to wing it on an electric upright without developing correct DB technique. So going to electric upright first might be a bit misleading.[/quote] I'd say yes and no to the above... yes because an electric upright can usually be setup with a lower action than a double bass, so it can be easier in that way to begin with, and you always have an amp, which means you don't have the hard work of developing a good acoustic tone, even though you should. No, because if the scale length of the neck is the same as a 3/4 upright, you'll need to use Simandl 1-2-4 fingerings on the electric upright anyway, unless your hands are huge. Most importantly, as I moved from electric upright to double bass, I found the double bass easier, because it is more physically stable, making it easier to play in tune. In reality I could only progress up to a certain point with the electric upright, to move further on required a proper double bass, *especially* with arco playing. I reckon you are correct though, in the sense that to begin with, the electric upright can be easier, although in the long term I think this is not the case. As for shifting the instrument around, I've moved the double bass, a keyboard, myself, and the keyboard player, in a new Mini. At a gig on Saturday there was the double bass, my amplifier, myself, keyboard player, and full size stage piano, in a Fiesta. So no worries there! Jennifer Edited November 18, 2009 by endorka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 A double bass will go into anything with a hatch, however small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 It's also worth noting that the cost of a good EUB, there's not point in buying cheaper as it's false economy, is probably good money spent on a proper upright. There are some good deals to be had and some good instruments to be found if you look around. I'm all for the ease of EUB, but nothing beats that feeling of playing a proper upright, with it's big boomy tone and vibration next to your body. You just can't get that in a EUB ever. Some come close to a reasonable upright tone, but nothing beats the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changles Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Ah you guys are all saying the things I've been painfully aware of! I feel like I should get an acoustic so I can learn properly. I feel like an electric might just give me a wholly unsatisfying pale imitation... But I doubt I can transport the double bass, my guitarists' needlessly large amp and the needlessly large drum kit all in that punto! I wouldn't be so fussed about getting it to gigs early on anyway, just having it to play at home would be enough for me. Then, maybe one day, we'll get a large van and I'll be good enough by then to justify bringing it! Yes I am convinced an acoustic is the best option, right? Am I right? Right? Time to start saving up the pennies for it then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 [quote name='Changles' post='657980' date='Nov 18 2009, 12:11 PM']Time to start saving up the pennies for it then![/quote] I picked a full size (4/4) DB from a school clear out for a mere £50!!!! The sound post had slipped, other than that it was quite playable and worth considerably more. It was a Meinel I believe and was about £20 years old. Nothing super amazing, but it did the job. Might be worth ringing around schools etc, as most now don't have orchestra's and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supabock Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 [quote name='Changles' post='657980' date='Nov 18 2009, 12:11 PM']Ah you guys are all saying the things I've been painfully aware of! I feel like I should get an acoustic so I can learn properly. I feel like an electric might just give me a wholly unsatisfying pale imitation... But I doubt I can transport the double bass, my guitarists' needlessly large amp and the needlessly large drum kit all in that punto! I wouldn't be so fussed about getting it to gigs early on anyway, just having it to play at home would be enough for me. Then, maybe one day, we'll get a large van and I'll be good enough by then to justify bringing it! Yes I am convinced an acoustic is the best option, right? Am I right? Right? Time to start saving up the pennies for it then![/quote] Went through the same dilemma myself and there are valid points and arguments for each situation. You will need to pay a substantial amount of money for a good EUB and there are some good luthiers out there who can emmulate the feel and sound of a traditional acoustic.. Thumb position and right hand techniques are essential if you are going to learn to play properly. Some EUB's dont encourage these techniques. I have a clifton EUB, Yep, it was expensive but fairly priced, has bouts and feels like a traditional acoustic and needs time to get used to, just like an acoustic, but my advice would be to go and try as many basses both EUB and acoustic, but do not be put off from the fact that an acoustic bass when first played in a shop, will feel really starnge and maybe not easy to play. If you have or know of any players, try their bases also as they are likely to be reasonably set up if they play regularly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major-Minor Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 It's also worth bearing in mind that a quality DB is nearly always a good investment. A few years down the line and you should be able to get more than you paid for it, assuming it's still in good condition. You can't say that for electric instruments which nearly always depreciate at an alarming rate. My orchestral bass cost me £300 in 1973. It's now worth in excess of £25K. Now that's a good investment ! The Major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supabock Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 +1 for the investment on the acoustic, but i have to say a good bespoke or luthier made EUB will hold its value. Like anything i guess instruments are only worth what people are prepared to pay for them at the end of the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Major-Minor' post='658291' date='Nov 18 2009, 04:33 PM']My orchestral bass cost me £300 in 1973. It's now worth in excess of £25K. Now that's a good investment ! The Major[/quote] I'll give you £350 for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synaesthesia Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 There is first of all, Electric UB modelled on the physicality of a DB and then there's EUB for the sake of having something upright with the scale of a DB but which really is not much more than a Longer scale EB, with some random radius to the fingerboard and an action and sound more like an electric bass. The EUB, DB and EB all share some commonality, but they are different instruments, just as a balalaika, mandolin, violin, er hu, sitar etc are not the same as an electric guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='bassace' post='657862' date='Nov 18 2009, 09:48 AM']A double bass will go into anything with a hatch, however small.[/quote] Even if the back seats won't fold flat? I'm umm-ing and aah-ing about buying a DB but my (girlfriend's) car is a little Daihatsu and I can't imagine how a DB would go in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Major-Minor' post='658291' date='Nov 18 2009, 04:33 PM']It's also worth bearing in mind that a quality DB is nearly always a good investment. A few years down the line and you should be able to get more than you paid for it, assuming it's still in good condition. You can't say that for electric instruments which nearly always depreciate at an alarming rate. My orchestral bass cost me £300 in 1973. It's now worth in excess of £25K. Now that's a good investment ! The Major[/quote] Here's a couple pics of mine that's was rescued from being chucked in a skip and after several hundred pounds worth of repairs and refurbishments. It's a solid wood Romanian dating from somewhere in the 70's, just got to learn how to play the thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='659346' date='Nov 19 2009, 03:50 PM']Even if the back seats won't fold flat? I'm umm-ing and aah-ing about buying a DB but my (girlfriend's) car is a little Daihatsu and I can't imagine how a DB would go in there.[/quote] They don't have to fold completely flat but the backs need to turn down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major-Minor Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='659066' date='Nov 19 2009, 11:43 AM']I'll give you £350 for it [/quote] Sorry Bilbo - I've already got a buyer ready waiting to buy it the moment I retire (and that won't be for some time yet, I hope !). The Major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateybass Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 It really depends on how much you want to spend, but you could end up with one of each for less than the total of your upper budget of £1000 if you shop around. I've seen 3/4 AUBs go on ebay for around £350 and the same amount will get you a brand new Stagg EUB which, despite some opinions on another forum I've read by people who haven't actually played one, with a tiny bit of [url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/52673786@N00/sets/72157622373540977/detail/"]modification[/url] to finish it off properly, make really decent sounds (according to other musicians I've played it with). There is another consideration to be made and that is what volume you are likely to be playing at on stage. An acoustic bass is far more prone to feedback than an EUB, one of the problems which prompted me to try a Stagg in the first place. I've now got 2 of them, one of which I've had converted to 5 string, and an AUB which only ever gets played at home these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I agree that the Stagg sounds very good, especially for the price, but the way the strings on the instrument are setup (if memory serves me correctly) is closer together than a standard DB. Also, the arch of the bridge and curvature across the neck are less pronounced than a standard DB. Both of these make bowing more difficult than it should be. Sure, it can be done, but it's just more difficult, and if you're looking for something to learn arco on you're going to need all the help you can get. I agree about the better usability of the EUB in "stupid loud" situations, although I've found it possible to amplify the DB very effectively in moderately loud situations, as long as you have a good pickup. Poorer pickups will turn such an endeavour into a nightmare. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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