I've confused myself with modes!!

[Amazoman]

Hi All,
I play in a church band where we generally are given and play songs with chords written above the words ie no 'dots'.
I have fallen into the root,5th, octave, rut and simply move that hand shape around as the chords change and because I know the melody in my head simply play a random beat that fits the song.
In my desire to improve and be more effective I decided to investigate playing using modes and feel that I have missed something crucial in the learning curve.
So: If I am playing a song that for example is in the Key of A and there is a passage of chord changes that goes Bm7,C#m7, F#m7 am I correct in assuming that the shape/pattern for those three chords as the changes come would be Dorian pattern starting on B, Phrygian pattern starting on C# and Aolian pattern starting on F#. If this is correct why doesn't it sound right? and how do I know which notes out of those patterns are available to 'sound right' without being stuck in another root, third, fifth, octave rut.

I think I read somewhere that all of the odd numbered notes in any pattern should be OK or have I missed a vital piece of the jigsaw?
Thanks in anticipation.

[Major-Minor]

This is one of those instances where the teaching (and misunderstanding) of modes is just so ridiculous. Yes we need to understand modes, and they can be applied very effectively when composing or improvising, but for the type of bass parts I guess you are trying to create, modal thinking just muddies the water.

In your example, all the chords are related to the A major scale. All the constituent notes of these chords are in the A major scale.
Make sure you know the notes of each chord as a starting point. So for instance C#m7 is C# E G# and B. Using the root and 5th on the strong beats of the bar, you can mix in the other 2 notes to taste. Obviously use notes in different octaves for variety. If you want to use passing notes (on weaker beats or sub-divisions), just use other notes from the A major scale if you want it to sound "right".
Or you can use other notes from out of the key if you are looking for "tension" within your part. It's all down to taste and genre. You need to learn firstly how the chordal notes will work in your part, and how to make them fit, before widening your scope to encompass extraneous tones.

When you start to play more complex harmonic sequences, with frequent modulations and dissonances, then you might want to start reading up about modal thinking. But I would suggest with respect that you are not yet at that point.

The Major

[Doddy]

You'd really be better off getting a solid understanding of arpeggios than trying
to play modally at this point.

[Amazoman]

Thank you Major for the swift response I appreciate it.

I guess what I was trying to do was look for a short cut to the 'magic key'!

I do not already know them all but I understand how to work out chord spellings.
I can actually see in my minds eye the patterns on the fretboard that the modal shapes look like i.e where the first,second, third etc would fall under my fingers for each mode without necessarily knowing the names of any of the notes I was playing. My thinking was I only have to learn and visualise 7 patterns which are transferrable to any key.

I thought if I was looking for the next chord change, thinking 'what notes are in that chord', 'now then where are they on the fretboard' this seemed a much longer process than thinking I'm in the key of A, the next chord is built off the second degree so my finger pattern is Dorian and so on.

Do you advocate I scrap this idea and go back to commiting to memory the notes which are found in each chord?

[leftybassman392]

I'd have to agree with the two previous posters - trying to play modally for the sake of doing something different is unlikely to achieve what you're trying to do, and in any case (as has been pointed out) there are other ways of doing it - what's wrong with playing more imaginatively in the key you're in (arpeggios, passing notes, chromaticism, embellishment of the basic harmony)?

The reason modal playing won't work is that it involves a change of tonal centre - if you're playing in B Dorian, for example, then B is you're tonal centre and the harmonic relationships are built around it. If everybody else is thinking in A Major then what you're doing will sound odd (not wrong exactly, but odd nevertheless).

What you're talking about is more pattern related than modal as such - although each pattern [i]can [/i]be thought of as a mode, in this instance it doesn't really serve any purpose.

Edited November 10, 2009 by leftybassman392

[sdgrsr400]

Hmm, well personally I wouldn't assume a modal approach is right at all. I would be assuming pretty much a regular diatonic (major/minor) tonal framework with limited modulation, unless there is very clear melodic and harmonic evidence to the contrary.

If you want to move on from triad tones, then I'd say clearly to look at stepwise walking bass lines with diatonic and/or chromatic passing notes. There are a number of books on that subject, Ed Friedland comes to mind.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='Amazoman' post='651124' date='Nov 10 2009, 10:40 PM']Do you advocate I scrap this idea and go back to commiting to memory the notes which are found in each chord?[/quote]
Yes I would suggest that a thorough understanding of the chordal notes is an essential starting point. As I said before, modal thinking is a useful tool for widening your compositional / improvisational ideas, but only when you fully understand the basics of chord building.

Its also important to understand how you can build a bass line that takes into account the "change" from one chord to another. (In the jazz genre we refer to a chord sequence as "the changes").

Taking your A major example:

Let's say you are looking to "change" from C#m7 to F#m7: (chords built on the 3rd and 6th notes of the A scale)

You can simply use the root notes C# moving to F#.

Or, looking at the notes from within the chord of C#m7, you could approach the F# root from the note E which is the minor 3rd of the C#m7 chord. Or you could use the G#. The note B (the 7th in the C#m7 chord) would be less convincing in a regular style of music.

There is a great amount of knowledge to take in when you want to be involved in music. I've been pro musician for 40 years and I'm still learning something every day. You need to build a solid foundation to progress from. A clear understanding of chord building should be your first goal.

The Major

[jakenewmanbass]

I would add weight to what is being said about a solid chord tone knowledge being the right next step for you.

I would also point out to anyone that is interested, the following: I have been a bass teacher on and off for over fifteen years and the number of people over those years that have approached me with a question like. "I'm bored of root and fifth, how do I play something more interesting?" almost all my students at some point utter something like this. What is critical to remember for anyone at that point is that the likelihood is, in fact you are simply bored of what [i]you[/i] do with root and fifth. Take a good listen to many bass players and analyse what they are doing and you'll find tons of root and fifth ideas that you probably don't have a grip on. I rattle on about this guy ad infinitum but check out what Jimmy Johnson does with James Taylor's songs and you will hear variety using root and fifth like you would never believe. What that says is it's the musician, not the music that can end up stale. Remember the importance of our role, revel in how good you can make it feel just plonking down a root and fifth. think of 9-5 by Dolly Parton rocking root and fifth....

[fatback]

Given the serious expertise above, I hesitate to join in this. But I do remember very well the journey from very limited to reasonably competent, so it might be helpful.

Try working on the ideas below, one thing at a time.

1. Use the third as well as your roots and fifths to help define whether the chord is major or minor. This is more important when you have a minor.
2. If there's a 7th in the chord, know whether it's major or minor/dominant, and sometimes use it.
3. If there are unusual 'colour' tones in the chord, especially a 6th, try picking it out.
4. Practice playing from one chord into the next using notes common to the two and/or half steps to bridge the gap. This is probably the biggest difference between the beginner and the more educated player.
5. Where a song changes section, there's often a chance to introduce that change using '4' above, and be aware of the dom. (minor) 7th in that job.

As for modes, I'd disagree (hesitantly) with the views above. It's important to learn the scales that can go with each chord, and a good way to do that is to learn the modes that go with each chord. There's not a lot to it when you look a it that way.

No way am I saying use all the above all the time. I'm only saying that by expeimenting with each of the steps above and building on them one at a time you'll see a big difference in your playing and your confidence.


Hope that helps.

fatback

Edited November 11, 2009 by fatback

[Bilbo]

One of the hardest things I find about playing the bass is learning how to serve the music rather than one's own egocentricity. I have learned over the years to deeply value to wonder of a simple root note. I have also learned to appreciate the value of understanding that the length of the note is important, where it ENDS as well as where it begins. Then there is the tone of the note, the rhythms and the dynamics you can use to make a line sing. And, against all of that, you have to contextualise it in the music you are performing at any given time. One of the difficult things about trying to learn to explore more complex ideas is that you inevitably want to try them whenever you are playing music. The trouble is, most music doesn't require the complex utilisation of modes and root/five does the job more than adequately. You need to learn to love the simple things that make the music work.

Learning WHEN to and when NOT TO get clever is as important as learning what to do when you enter that territory.

[fatback]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='651426' date='Nov 11 2009, 11:03 AM']Learning WHEN to and when NOT TO get clever is as important as learning what to do when you enter that territory.[/quote]

+1 to that.

But it's also true that it's much easier to play with simplicity when you're confident you could do other things if you wanted. The feeling of not knowing the options is not nice.

Twice I sold amazing basses that I loved, and stopped playing for years out of frustration at my own ignorance. Something I deeply regret. That was when the internet resource wasn't what it is now.

Get the knowledge, then choose.


fatback

[chris_b]

[quote name='Amazoman' post='650987' date='Nov 10 2009, 08:10 PM']....I play in a church band where we generally are given and play songs with chords written above the words ie no 'dots'.
I have fallen into the root,5th, octave, rut and simply move that hand shape around as the chords change and because I know the melody in my head simply play a random beat that fits the song.
In my desire to improve and be more effective I decided to investigate playing using modes and feel that I have missed something crucial in the learning curve....[/quote]
Sounds like you're just bored with what you are playing. I'm in a duo with a guitarist playing blues, ragtime, Django, folk, swing and everything in between and I play a lot of 2 in the bar feel, root and 5, because that's what works best. It's how you play it that counts, like what passing notes do you play and how you view your contribution to the whole. I keep time, add the rhythm, support the number and sometimes lead. I try to make both of us sound like one and mostly it seems to work. If you want to be effective, be simple.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='fatback' post='651416' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:53 AM']As for modes, I'd disagree (hesitantly) with the views above. It's important to learn the scales that can go with each chord, and a good way to do that is to learn the modes that go with each chord.[/quote]
This is precisely why I think modes should be looked at later in the educational process, once a true understanding of chords is in place.
If a young player believes he/ she has several modal options when seeing a chord in a sequence, then that player will be confused when certain notes simply sound "wrong" because they have yet to understand the harmonic direction. Everything in music is allied to context and good taste.

Take a simple A minor triad for example. There are many modal scale options to play against this chord:

A B C D E F G
A Bb C D E F G
A B C D E F# G
A B C D E F# G#
A Bb C D Eb F G
A Bb C D Eb F G#

Each one of these has a usefulness in a given context. But if you don't understand that context from a harmonic perspective, you will come unstuck very quickly.

For a player who barely knows the chordal notes of simple 3 and 4 note chords, these options are a step too far too soon.

And, as usual, I heartily agree with both Jakesbass and Bilbo' comments.
It's amazing what you can do just using the tonic note, maybe in various octaves, underpinning the action, keeping that fundamental floored.

The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack !! (I just made that up - sounds a bit pretentious actually !)

The Major

[Amazoman]

Thank you all for the excellent adviceand contributions.
I realise that chords and arpeggios and the notes that form them now need to be my focus and especially how they link together with common notes and half step lead ins and this will be my next goal.
I am not bored with root and 5th Chris and Jake I just thought that I could contribute more to the music but I do understand the concept that 'less is often more'. The bass player previous to me was affectionately called 'root note Ronnie' and I was trying to avoid this!!
I knew this wasn't going to be as easy as strumming chords on a 6 string guitar!!

[The Funk]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='651426' date='Nov 11 2009, 11:03 AM']One of the hardest things I find about playing the bass is learning how to serve the music rather than one's own egocentricity.

[...]

Learning WHEN to and when NOT TO get clever is as important as learning what to do when you enter that territory.[/quote]

Agree 100%.

[fatback]

[quote]The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack[/quote]

I quite like that, actually!

I guess I'm chipping in my 10cents because I really believe that keeping it simple shouldn't seem like an argument for not learning whatever there is to learn ( I'm sure you didn't mean it that way).

The players I love are the ones who play little but add small touches that are just perfect and nearly always depend on good knowledge.

Amazoman, you've a lot of fun ahead of you, learning this stuff. You'll be delighted with yourself.

fatback

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='fatback' post='652338' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:02 AM']The players I love are the ones who play little but add small touches that are just perfect and nearly always depend on good knowledge.


fatback[/quote]
Fatback, you are absolutely right - good knowledge of music is vital if one wishes to add those special little touches to an otherwise simple bass line.
But my point was about how you go about acquiring that knowledge - or should I say the order in which that knowledge is taken in. I'm looking at this from an educator's point of view. It's so easy to confuse the student if the knowledge is fed in the wrong way or in the wrong order.

For a bass player, it is essential to understand not only how the "key" structure works but also basic chord building and how to use those chordal tones in an effective way when creating a bass part before trying to fill in the gaps with non chordal notes.

But in order to understand chord building, a solid foundation in the basic scales - major and minor (natural / harmonic / melodic) is a good starting point. These are the most commonly used modes anyway.

To be honest, there is no "right way" to teach somebody about harmony / theory / improvising / arranging / . A lot depends on the aptitude of the student and whether the teacher can give an overview without missing out too much detail. You can read endless books about this subject - but it's only when you can see the overall picture that the penny drops and it all makes sense.

The Major

[mikebass78]

Little to add except that I'm in the same position of trying to advance my playing through the same stage, while in context, with the slight difference that I'm in a post-punk band with an [u]advanced[/u], and thankfully patient, guitarist.
Root and fifth variations work, use octave shifts in the progressions for colour, don't forget that changes in your right hand position can add dynamics or a sense of movement and a well placed slide can give the impression of passing notes without worrying about the 'right' one to hit. Also listen the drummer to get a feel for if/where you can add rhythmic variation.

I'll definitely be bookmarking this topic for the excellent advice offered, cheers all


PS Oh, I am still learning the major modal shapes in my own time as an excercise, but I learn them as alternative fingering patterns rather than trying to apply them to songs. Letting them soak in rather than studying them I guess.

Edited November 19, 2009 by mikebass78

[jude_b]

"The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack"

[quote name='fatback' post='652338' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:02 AM']I quite like that, actually![/quote]

I like that too - sounds like Bob Dylan.

I've never really got my head around modes, despite covering them in theory, they always seemed a bit unnecessary given a knowledge of major, minor and blues scales.

I've just misspent some money on a bass magazine on a journey home from London and the theory part in the back on modes makes general relativity look like a breeze - really horrible. The names are enough to put you off alone.

From memory, did modes predate the development of major/minor scales - I seem to remember them being used in Medieval plainsong or something? Can we consign them to history?

They always seem to be used in guitar magazines and (I think) tend to confuse the issue. I can't remember Ray Brown directly using modes in his book on bass method.

I'm self taught on bass, so maybe this is a gap in my knowledge - can anyone who's been trained with modes explain whether/how they are helpful?

(Sorry for going a little off topic)

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='jude_b' post='660575' date='Nov 20 2009, 09:53 PM']"The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack"



I like that too - sounds like Bob Dylan.

I've never really got my head around modes, despite covering them in theory, they always seemed a bit unnecessary given a knowledge of major, minor and blues scales.

I've just misspent some money on a bass magazine on a journey home from London and the theory part in the back on modes makes general relativity look like a breeze - really horrible. The names are enough to put you off alone.

From memory, did modes predate the development of major/minor scales - I seem to remember them being used in Medieval plainsong or something? Can we consign them to history?

They always seem to be used in guitar magazines and (I think) tend to confuse the issue. I can't remember Ray Brown directly using modes in his book on bass method.

I'm self taught on bass, so maybe this is a gap in my knowledge - can anyone who's been trained with modes explain whether/how they are helpful?

(Sorry for going a little off topic)[/quote]

Without wishing to sound overly pompous & boring may I politely suggest you have a look at my article series on Ancient Greek music in the pinned thread on this forum, which will give you a historical perspective (and maybe a few other bits as well...)

[Paul_C]

[quote name='jude_b' post='660575' date='Nov 20 2009, 09:53 PM']"The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack"



I like that too - sounds like Bob Dylan.

I've never really got my head around modes, despite covering them in theory, they always seemed a bit unnecessary given a knowledge of major, minor and blues scales.

I've just misspent some money on a bass magazine on a journey home from London and the theory part in the back on modes makes general relativity look like a breeze - really horrible. The names are enough to put you off alone.

From memory, did modes predate the development of major/minor scales - I seem to remember them being used in Medieval plainsong or something? Can we consign them to history?

They always seem to be used in guitar magazines and (I think) tend to confuse the issue. I can't remember Ray Brown directly using modes in his book on bass method.

I'm self taught on bass, so maybe this is a gap in my knowledge - can anyone who's been trained with modes explain whether/how they are helpful?

(Sorry for going a little off topic)[/quote]

If you know the major and natural minor scales, then you know two modes already - the Ionian (major) and the Aeolian (natural minor).

If, for example, you take the major scale and flatten the 7th a semitone, you have the mixolydian scale, or mode - so that's three down already !

[jude_b]

Had look at this and it was quite interesting. Particularly in the sense that it is a reminder of how current western scales are a mixture of convention and fashion. No doubt we will end up with something quite different in a few hundred more years.

The main point I was trying to make, albeit a little flippantly, was that I think modes may be quite confusing for someone trying to pick up theory. Whilst I'm self taught on bass, I'm classically trained on piano and modes were completely unnecessary for the range of styles I covered as a student (and continue to play).

I've always been surprised that guitar magazines and the like always seem to introduce them at an early stage, rather than as an arcane bit of historical theory.

I can understand that it might be useful to learn different patterns that are variations of the western scales with diminished/augmented notes in - however, why isn't this just expressed in the more commonly used standard musical notation rather than modes? Perhaps modes can be used as a shortcut to the family of 7ths, which are important in jazz/blues/rock etc, which the vast variety of electric guitarists/bassists want to get to?

Someone learning using modes also has to (eventually) convert what their learning into standard scales, which I can imagine leads to additional confusion. I guess a tutor would argue it's good for the soul.

Finally, guitarists/bass guitarists have to communicate with other musicians and surely ordinary/diatonic scales is the best way to do this?

I was really just looking for some insight into why modes tend to be pushed in mainstream guitar/bass tutor books but not (at least in my experience) for other instruments, where modes are a rather more advanced theoretical idea.

My prejudice probably comes from my old piano teacher. He was also a classical guitarist and told me not to waste my time worrying about modes.

If there are good reasons why modes are useful, then I may have been missing out and I should get practicing them. I just need to make sure I don't get them mixed up with the columns outside old buildings.

[quote name='leftybassman392' post='661117' date='Nov 21 2009, 03:52 PM']Without wishing to sound overly pompous & boring may I politely suggest you have a look at my article series on Ancient Greek music in the pinned thread on this forum, which will give you a historical perspective (and maybe a few other bits as well...) [/quote]

[leftybassman392]

Errr.... thanks (I think ).

However I am a little surprised that reading my articles gave you the impression that scale structures are a combination of convention and fashion, much less that I was suggesting such a conclusion. To be sure, I did leave out a lot of detail about how notions of intervallic relationships developed, both during the Ancient Greek period and in more recent times (specifically how the current Equal Temperament system evolved from Just Intonation), but one of the main thrusts of the series has been to bring out the evolutionary nature of Western scale theory, with developments appearing out of a perceived need or else a perceived limitation in the status quo. I'm not so sure that convention - much less fashion - have had a great deal to do with it. In order to bring this out fully, however, I would have needed to go into a great deal more detail. In the event I decided that a broader picture would better suit the needs of those most likely to be reading it. If that approach served to confuse anybody, then I apologise.

As to modes in the modern sense, I disagree with the claim that they are arcane. Not only are modal approaches adopted by musicians working in many genres; they form part of the exam sequence in both RockSchool and RGT syllabi, and can be an invaluable analytical tool. In order to obtain full benefit of these qualities however, one needs to have a sound grasp of the elements of music theory (as several posters on this thread have been at pains to point out).

Teaching a guitar or bass student how to play the 7 patterns of the Major Scale (for example) is not the same as teaching them how to think modally. I suspect that most of the problems encountered in the teaching and learning of modes stem from a degree of confusion over this fact (on the part of both students and tutors).

Edited November 23, 2009 by leftybassman392

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='jude_b' post='660575' date='Nov 20 2009, 09:53 PM']"The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack"



I like that too - sounds like Bob Dylan.

I've never really got my head around modes, despite covering them in theory, they always seemed a bit unnecessary given a knowledge of major, minor and blues scales.

I've just misspent some money on a bass magazine on a journey home from London and the theory part in the back on modes makes general relativity look like a breeze - really horrible. The names are enough to put you off alone.

From memory, did modes predate the development of major/minor scales - I seem to remember them being used in Medieval plainsong or something? Can we consign them to history?

They always seem to be used in guitar magazines and (I think) tend to confuse the issue. I can't remember Ray Brown directly using modes in his book on bass method.

I'm self taught on bass, so maybe this is a gap in my knowledge - can anyone who's been trained with modes explain whether/how they are helpful?

(Sorry for going a little off topic)[/quote]

OK I'll try to help:
Thinking about the way modes are used in music education today (and I'm referring to the pop/rock/jazz/blues genres):

It's important to understand that a (modern) mode is not a fingering pattern as has been mentioned in another post. A particular fingering pattern could be said to be in a particular mode but not the other way round. Confused ?

Let me try to explain ( and I'm keeping this at a basic practical level):

When you play a scale - lets say C major CDEFGABC - you create a particular musical character, a "mode". On its own, that scale gives a very clear harmonic inference to the modern ear. Put a C triad under it, and it is even more clear.

Now alter just one note - change the F to an F#. The character changes when you now play the scale. Again put the C triad under it, and the harmonic instability is clear. You have created a new mode (the titles of the modes don't really matter - they are purely academic).

Now play any of those notes - CDEF#GABC - in any order - create a melodic line just with these notes (in various octaves).
You will hear the "mode" inferred by that F#. If you don't play F# or F natural in your melody, you will not get that particular character you had a moment ago.

Now, the modern way of using modes is to take these "characters" and add them to one's arsenal of musical ideas.

Let's say you were improvising over a G7 chord. The notes of the C scale fit perfectly and if we start our theoretical scale on G we get GABCDEFG (still a C major scale). This is the Mixolidian mode (not that the title matters!). Because G7 is the dominant chord in C major, the C major scale works well over this chord.

However, if you want to make it sound a bit more exotic, lets change one of the notes:

Lets change the E natural into an Eb. Play the scale GABCDEbFG over a G7 chord. A whole new character emerges. Now improvise, create a melodic line using these notes - still over a G7 chord (get your guitarist mate to strum).
You'll hear how different the "character" is now.
But the danger is that you will think you can only use just these notes to create that character. Yes you can make a point of including that Eb to create that exotic feel for some of the time during your improv or composition - but don't get hung up on it ! It's like adding seasoning to you food - if you overdo it it will be unpalatable.

Over one chord, you can play in several different modes in quick succession. You can then create some great sounding lines.
But only an Academic transcribing your work would actually assign modal thinking to your lines. It's much better to have the musical freedom to incorporate notes as you feel them rather than in a stilted academic fashion.

So modes (in the modern thinking) are there to add spice to our musical lives. But don't be a slave to them !

Does this all make sense ? I can write more if you wish !

The Major

Edited November 23, 2009 by Major-Minor

[Dundee]

Heres an exercise that I use a lot either when warming up, teaching or trying to learn new modes.

If we take the major modes...

Starting on, say, G.
G - Ionian
A - Dorian
B - Phyrigian
C - Lydian
D - Mixolydian
E - aeolian
F* - Locrian

The exercise involves playing each interval of the scale on by one in each mode.
Play the root of each mode on the E string (going up one string punk rock style), followed by whatever interval your on.
So if we start with 3rd's we get a tab that looks something like this....

A----B---C---D---E---F*---G---A
E--G---A---B---C---D---E---F*--

So what we've done is play the root of each major mode in G followed by its 3rd.
See that Ionian, Lydian and mixolydian have major 3's while Dorian, phyrigian, Aeloian and Locrian have minor 3's
Then we progress to 4th's. so...

A----C---D---E---F*---G---A---B
E--G---A---B---C---D---E---F*---

This time we notice that all the modes have perfect 4ths, except lydian which has a sharp 4.
Notice that throughout this exercise we never play a note outside of the G major scale.

5ths,
A----D---E---F*---G---A---B---C
E--G---A---B---C---D---E---F*---

This time we see that Locrian has a flattened 5th, while all others are perfect.

6ths
D----E---F*---G---A---B---C---D
A-----------------------------------
E--G---A---B---C---D---E---F*---

This time we see that Ionian, Dorian, Lydian and Mixolydian have major 6th's while Phyrigian, Aeolian and Lociran have minor 6ths.

7ths

D----F*---G---A---B---C---D---E-
A-----------------------------------
E--G---A---B---C---D---E---F*---

Ionian and Lydian have major 7th's, while the rest have flattened 7ths.

9ths (For me 9ths are better to learn than seconds. Partly for the techinque building, partly because 2nds would be hard to hear but mainly because 9ths are more commonly played than 2nds)

G----A---B---C---D---E---F*---G
D----------------------------------
A----------------------------------
E--G---A---B---C---D---E---F*--

with 9ths/2nds we see that Locrian and phyrigian are the exceptions with flattened 9th's/2nds

I'd extened the exercise to 10ths (3rds), 11ths(4ths) and 13ths (6's) as well.

This exercise allows you to see how the modes are constructed 1 interval at a time. As you are playing the intervals at the same time then you are able to
1. hear the differences
2. Get those intervals under your fingers
3. realise that the major modes all use the same notes as each other but by shifting the root you get a totally different set of sounds as the importance of each note changes.

Hope this is of some help in getting modes under your fingers.