Effects into a separate Amp

[PauBass]

I'm thinking of running my effects into a second amp, mainly for distorted sounds. I'm currently using a Classic SVT through a Bergantino NV610.

What's the best way to do it?

Which amp should be enough to pair with my current amp? Guitar or Bass amp?

What's the difference between using a second amp for effects or just one amp with a blender pedal? Any experiences?

I'm a bit lost here so any input/advice from you guys would be highly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[cheddatom]

I always thought what I needed to do was run a clean signal into a bass amp, and a dirty signal into a guitar amp. At first I couldn't afford, so got an LS-2 to blend instead. Then, my guitarist got a new amp, so I started using his old one. It sounded crap. Then I tried the guitar amp coming out of the crossover on my peavey bass amp, so after the end of my blended effects chain. That sounded amazing, and it's what I used for the next 3 years. I would imagine that the combination of both amps got me somewhere near the capabilities of a very powerful bass rig with amazing cabs with crossovers etc.

The main thing I missed when running clean to the bass amp was the distorted low end!!

[Silent Fly]

I am not sure I understand why you would like to run the effects in a second amp.

Unless the the second amp has a very strong personality, from the sound viewpoint, you should be able to achieve the same thing with a blender.

[Dread Bass]

[quote name='Silent Fly' post='621407' date='Oct 9 2009, 10:46 AM']I am not sure I understand why you would like to run the effects in a second amp.

Unless the the second amp has a very strong personality, from the sound viewpoint, you should be able to achieve the same thing with a blender.[/quote]

+1 I found having a loop with a blend sorted me out but ive never tried biamping so i'm probably missing something.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Silent Fly' post='621407' date='Oct 9 2009, 10:46 AM']I am not sure I understand why you would like to run the effects in a second amp.

Unless the the second amp has a very strong personality, from the sound viewpoint, you should be able to achieve the same thing with a blender.[/quote]

Timmy C does it with similar amps doesn't he? There must be a reason for that.

[lateralus462]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='621503' date='Oct 9 2009, 12:14 PM']Timmy C does it with similar amps doesn't he? There must be a reason for that.[/quote]

Timmy C does use more than one amp, although I think he may have had them set up for different sounds, rather than having a seperate one for fx, he'd have one set clean, one set for drive etc.

[cheddatom]

AFAIK (and someone will probably correct me) He has 3 rigs, one is always running, and it's clean, another is running most of the time and he chooses how dirty it is with pedals, another is switched in and out and is seriously dirty.

[lateralus462]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='621519' date='Oct 9 2009, 12:38 PM']AFAIK (and someone will probably correct me) He has 3 rigs, one is always running, and it's clean, another is running most of the time and he chooses how dirty it is with pedals, another is switched in and out and is seriously dirty.[/quote]

Sounds complex! and heavy!! But then again he has one of the best sounds - saw them at Reading in '96 and was blown away by how good his bass sounded.

[Finbar]

I was under the impression that he used 3 SVT-IIs, one which ran a clean 8x10, and then two 4x10s which were at two different levels of gain, and he switched between them, rather than what you suggested? But I'm not entirely sure.

[lateralus462]

[quote name='Finbar' post='621859' date='Oct 9 2009, 05:51 PM']I was under the impression that he used 3 SVT-IIs, one which ran a clean 8x10, and then two 4x10s which were at two different levels of gain, and he switched between them, rather than what you suggested? But I'm not entirely sure.[/quote]

That's what the thread on talkbass suggests - although back in the day he just used 2 svt's and 2 8x10's (and by back in the day I mean around the time Evil Empire came out, on which he has simply the best sound ever)

[burno70]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='621519' date='Oct 9 2009, 12:38 PM']AFAIK (and someone will probably correct me) He has 3 rigs, one is always running, and it's clean, another is running most of the time and he chooses how dirty it is with pedals, another is switched in and out and is seriously dirty.[/quote]

This is what I've read in some interview with him which I think was posted on TB. I think he also said that his clean rig is always on and he either blends the dirty or 'seriously dirty' - as Cheddatom puts it - amp with it.

I may be wrong here but I'm sure they are three different amps but all bass amps. one may have been an ampeg and another an ashdown but I could be mistaken. Do a search under Timmy C in the effects forum. You'll have some trawling to do I'm sure but some fan of his posted a tonne of stuff on him in a thread.

[Finbar]

Looks all Ampeg to me.

How did this turn into a Timmy C thread? XD

[PauBass]

[quote name='Finbar' post='621936' date='Oct 9 2009, 07:25 PM']How did this turn into a Timmy C thread? XD[/quote]

Exactly! I'm not trying to emulate his or anyone else's rig! I'm trying to find my own sound and I'm considering the possibility of running two amps so I just want some advice...I've never had a two amp set up before and I'm a bit lost here. So, for people that runs , or has run two amps:

What's the best way to do it?

What amp would you suggest to pair with my current gear?

Is there a big difference between having a second effected amp and using a blender pedal?

Edited October 9, 2009 by PauBass

[Finbar]

I think buying a blender and experimenting would be a cheaper option to see if you like it. it'll show you some possibilities. And if you do decide moving onto having two amps, then you'll be making an informed choice then

[PauBass]

[quote name='Finbar' post='622118' date='Oct 9 2009, 10:54 PM']I think buying a blender and experimenting would be a cheaper option to see if you like it. it'll show you some possibilities. And if you do decide moving onto having two amps, then you'll be making an informed choice then [/quote]

I'm already using a blender, I've used it for a long time, but I'm not completely sure I like the end result so I'm consodering the two amp set up. I know many people run two amps with good results and I was hoping someone could give me some advice.

[fretmeister]

I've run proper split rigs:

Rig of Doom Version 1:




2 marshall Bass VBC4x12 cabs. I used the Ashdown for the lows (and octave FX) and the Hartke for the highs and drive etc.


Then I went to Rig of Doom version 2:




That was an Ampeg SVT BSP for the clean lows, and a Pod Pro XT for the Highs and FX - used each side of the Yamaha poweramp into Harke Pro 2200 2x12 cabs.

Then I started to blend 4 tones, so I could have frequency specific drive. Dear god it was MASSIVE.


At the moment I'm using a Mark Bass head and a blend pedal (house space is an issue at the moment!)

I can absolutely say the split system is MUCH better. Much finer control, and you aren't compromising the speakers asking them to do too many things at once. I will be going back to a full split system as soon as I can.


Rhythm guitarists to fill the sound out? We don't need no stinking rhythm guitarists.....



(My basses all have 2 outputs to run each side totally independently)



I did try it with a bass amp and a guitar amp - did't like it. 2 bass amps and good drive pedals are the way to go. And a sh*t load of compression to help get the levels relative all the time. Clean tones have much greater variation and need a bit of control compared to the drive.

[Sonic_Groove]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='622325' date='Oct 10 2009, 11:11 AM']Then I went to Rig of Doom version 2:




That was an Ampeg SVT BSP for the clean lows, and a Pod Pro XT for the Highs and FX - used each side of the Yamaha poweramp into Harke Pro 2200 2x12 cabs.

Then I started to blend 4 tones, so I could have frequency specific drive. Dear god it was MASSIVE.[/quote]


Wow it looks massive & cool. There are two pods aren't there? (one guitar one bass) did you blend them or run separate pick-ups amps?

Have fun building your new one (and can you bring it round for the morons next door to me (I don't have neighbours) to hear?



Brendan

[Finbar]

Just make sure the cab for your clean lows can keep up with the distorted cab. The distortion cab won't need to be as big, or as loud as the other one to get as loud, especially if you are using a crossover or low/high pass filter somewhere along the line. Also, think about the space. Are you going to run two amps? If you're using an Ampeg SVT, I'd assume you'd want something similar for the other head. It is much simpler with a stereo power amp and two preamps in a rack in my experience. YMMV.

I am currently using:

Bass, going into my pedalboard where the signal is split after a few effects (tuner, volume pedal, octave pedal, whammy pedal) and then everything below around 375Hz is cut off from my 'lows channel', fed into an Aguilar Tonehammer and then into my poweramp. The other side runs full range (though I knock most of the bass out of it), through all my drive pedals and other effects before going into an Ampeg SVP-Pro preamp and the same poweramp. Each channel has its own volume control, and feeds a separate Schroeder 1212L.

I think the best thing you can do is try it and see, but it isn't necessarily a cheap thing to do, especially if you want quite specialised stuff to do it with.

It does sound good, but I feel like I want a different cab for the low end part of it. I may also be selling it all up for one filthy valve head at some point in the future, so time will tell if I REALLY like it that much

[PauBass]

[quote name='Finbar' post='622476' date='Oct 10 2009, 03:35 PM']Just make sure the cab for your clean lows can keep up with the distorted cab. The distortion cab won't need to be as big, or as loud as the other one to get as loud, especially if you are using a crossover or low/high pass filter somewhere along the line. Also, think about the space. Are you going to run two amps? If you're using an Ampeg SVT, I'd assume you'd want something similar for the other head. It is much simpler with a stereo power amp and two preamps in a rack in my experience. YMMV.

I am currently using:

Bass, going into my pedalboard where the signal is split after a few effects (tuner, volume pedal, octave pedal, whammy pedal) and then everything below around 375Hz is cut off from my 'lows channel', fed into an Aguilar Tonehammer and then into my poweramp. The other side runs full range (though I knock most of the bass out of it), through all my drive pedals and other effects before going into an Ampeg SVP-Pro preamp and the same poweramp. Each channel has its own volume control, and feeds a separate Schroeder 1212L.

I think the best thing you can do is try it and see, but it isn't necessarily a cheap thing to do, especially if you want quite specialised stuff to do it with.

It does sound good, but I feel like I want a different cab for the low end part of it. I may also be selling it all up for one filthy valve head at some point in the future, so time will tell if I REALLY like it that much [/quote]


I'm sure it sounds awesome done that way but to be honest, I don't want to spend a fortune right now.
Adding a bass combo can do the trick?

[Finbar]

As long as you have something which will split your signal in two, and access to two amps, you can try it. So borrow a friend's rig, or use a decent combo you have lying around to test it out? You don't need a dedicated splitter to try it either, as long as you have something lying around with two outputs. I used a DL4 delay pedal to split my signal when testing it, as it has two outputs

[PauBass]

[quote name='Finbar' post='622487' date='Oct 10 2009, 03:46 PM']As long as you have something which will split your signal in two, and access to two amps, you can try it. So borrow a friend's rig, or use a decent combo you have lying around to test it out? You don't need a dedicated splitter to try it either, as long as you have something lying around with two outputs. I used a DL4 delay pedal to split my signal when testing it, as it has two outputs[/quote]

A Boss LS-2, maybe?

So in what order should I set it up? I mean, bass, effects , amps...

[Finbar]

Basically, you just need to decide whether you want one cab clean ALL the time or not? If you do, then split the signal before any effects, and only apply them to the effected cab. If you want some effects to go to both amps, then split the signal after them. Should be pretty self explanatory otherwise?

[PauBass]

[quote name='Finbar' post='622498' date='Oct 10 2009, 04:00 PM']Basically, you just need to decide whether you want one cab clean ALL the time or not? If you do, then split the signal before any effects, and only apply them to the effected cab. If you want some effects to go to both amps, then split the signal after them. Should be pretty self explanatory otherwise?[/quote]

Thanks a lot for your help!

I'll stick with one cab clean at all times and the effects going into the 2nd cab....I'll have a go on our next rehearsal and see how it works out.

[joegarcia]

I've been running two rigs for a while now and absolutely love it. I have a big board with lots of effects and use two Aguilar GS412's. I have a Sunn 1200s driving my 'bassy' rig and a 100w valve amp (changes round a bit at the moment) running my 'fx' rig. I split the signal at the start of the pedal board and have bassy distortions, fuzzes and octave down fx going into the Sunn and any quirky, noisy fx (wahs, ringmods, phasers reverbs, delays, synths etc) as well as an octave up running into the valve amp.

This way I have a big solid state amp delivering crushing low end with lots of meaty headroom and the breakup of a valve amp at full tilt at the same time. Awesome.

I think that having different fx (particularly if some are a bit 'out there') into separate amps creates an amazing array of textures and really works the kind of stuff I play.

[burno70]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='622860' date='Oct 11 2009, 02:16 AM']I've been running two rigs for a while now and absolutely love it. I have a big board with lots of effects and use two Aguilar GS412's. I have a Sunn 1200s driving my 'bassy' rig and a 100w valve amp (changes round a bit at the moment) running my 'fx' rig. I split the signal at the start of the pedal board and have bassy distortions, fuzzes and octave down fx going into the Sunn and any quirky, noisy fx (wahs, ringmods, phasers reverbs, delays, synths etc) as well as an octave up running into the valve amp.

This way I have a big solid state amp delivering crushing low end with lots of meaty headroom and the breakup of a valve amp at full tilt at the same time. Awesome.

I think that having different fx (particularly if some are a bit 'out there') into separate amps creates an amazing array of textures and really works the kind of stuff I play.[/quote]

I'd love to hear that rig, sounds amazing - do ya play in the Northwest?