AI in music

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, edstraker123 said:

Rick Beato dissing AI music is really getting on my nerves. In one interview he mentioned Spotify marking the tracks as AI so people could avoid listening to them which I find ludicrous. I subscribe to it to listen to good music, some of the non-AI tracks he recommends are woeful. 

 

I've no issue with full disclosure ai labelling whether it be "fully ai generated", "ai assisted" etc - I think folk should be allowed to choose to support/listen to what they want in the same way that "free range" eggs is a useful label?

 

But I agree that there is plenty of human slop out there! Would it be fair to say that 99.99% of original material uploaded could be regarded as derivative and uninteresting?

 

Most successful solo artists / songwriters are using session musicians to lay down the backing tracks. It seems to me that the latter could well be a first music casualty of war with the new tech (just as software engineers, audit juniors etc are finding in their fields of work). Where ai is going to struggle to compete is full band live performances with no backing tracks - and that is where I'm going to be focussing my live bass playing. If we end up including songs that have an ai imprint rather than purely covering other folk's back catalogue, I'm cool with that - the human interaction with an audience will remain intact.

 

Edited yesterday at 08:54 by Al Krow

[TimR]

Geoffrey Hinton talks to Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

 

You may have difficulty sleeping after listing to this discussion. 

 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/30xO8jBd3jynb7mOAE1v0O?si=0-buIMDXTBanSOYeEMCL_w&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A1mNsuXfG95Lf76YQeVMuo1

 

[MacDaddy]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

I've no issue with full disclosure ai labelling whether it be "fully ai generated", "ai assisted" etc -

 

Full disclosure labelling. I like that!

 

So for example:

 

My Generation 

 - P. Townsend (didn't write the bass line)

 

Every breath you take 

 - G. Sumner (didn't write the guitar part)

 

Etc.

[Al Krow]

19 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Full disclosure labelling. I like that!

 

So for example:

 

My Generation 

 - P. Townsend (didn't write the bass line)

 

Every breath you take 

 - G. Sumner (didn't write the guitar part)

 

Etc.

 

Haha - now you might not think it misleading if your bandmates wrote their particular parts, but how about Elvis - didn't write any of his own stuff (co-authored a few)? Tbf he never claimed otherwise = full disclosure?

And apparently audiences weren't too fussed?! (See earlier comment about performer / audience interaction surviving AI).

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Al Krow

[edstraker123]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

how do you find the Pro version "Editor" for editing / changing parts of tracks you have already got that you're not 100% happy with?

There are 2 versions of the editor in the Pro model. They work in slightly different ways. I think it is o.k. but not brilliant. It's really useful in your lyrics section to mark things as intro, verse 1, bridge etc. as then it allows you to more easily make changes to the section you want. Alternatively just do a cover of the song and vary the style or audio percentage so it is regenerating something almost identical, as I find more issues with clipping etc. than producing something musically horrible. This is also useful to do when changing the lyrics if they haven't been performed in the way you want.

Definitely have a play with Personas if you want to produce an album with a consistent singer.

[Woodinblack]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

the human interaction with an audience will remain intact.

 

Will it? If music is something done by AI there may just be less interest in it. Certainly there is less interest in younger generations than older generations. With pubs closing down and event spaces reducing, I can't see that there is much time left for people playing live. I have the advantage of being old so I don't really have to worry about it, but you know, people only started going to see groups from the 50s on, everything has a time and maybe that is over. What is the actual point learning an instrument if you are never going to be as good as a machine?

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Will it? If music is something done by AI there may just be less interest in it. Certainly there is less interest in younger generations than older generations. With pubs closing down and event spaces reducing, I can't see that there is much time left for people playing live. I have the advantage of being old so I don't really have to worry about it, but you know, people only started going to see groups from the 50s on, everything has a time and maybe that is over. What is the actual point learning an instrument if you are never going to be as good as a machine?

 

People still go to hear classical music live, right? And arguably the very best of that had been composed by the early 20th Century give or take? There's still a very considerable demand to hear orchestras performing classical "covers". Why is that?

The human interaction I'm referring to is between performer and audience. If their rep includes AI music and it's great music, then the performance will still be the performance irrespective of who/what composed the tune. That was my point about Elvis. No one cared who wrote the tune as long as it was a great tune.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

People still go to hear classical music live, right?

 

How many have you been to recently? Me, not so many.

 

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

There's still a very considerable demand to hear orchestras performing covers. Why is that?

 

Is there? There are about 10 cover bands in the local area this weekend, but I don't see any orchestras.

 

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

That was my point about Elvis. No one cared who wrote the tune as long as it was a great tune.

 

No-one cared about the tune as long as it was Elvis playing it, it could have been anything. How did Elvis get a start, what happens if he never did?

Or are you saying that ultimately we will just end up with live mime acts, or like the abba projection thing?

 

Or actually I suppose, like elvis, the only people who will be able to perform are the pretty ones (similar to the national level but local). If there is no skill required to do it, then aesthetics will be the only thing that matters. Thats me out then!

[Ben Jamin]

As far as I can see, Gen Z and Gen A are not interested in AI music at all. All the kids I know are listening to CDs in their rooms and buying DVDs out of frustration with the streaming services. Radiohead are popular with the youth again for their authenticity. Snapchat is the last social media standing, and only because it's used as a messenger.

 

The next generation is already tired of fake filters and algorithms. Whilst it's incredible technology, if anything I think the backlash against AI will mean more live music - and music that focuses on tangible instruments, texture and real-life sounds.

 

I doubt there will be any money left in music production though, just live events.

[TimR]

The next step is when AI learns to read the audience's reactions and understand their emotional state. 

 

At that point they will be better than a lot of the original acts that I see who obviously pour a lot of effort and emotion into their songs, but just don't build a following, understand stagecaraft or song composition. And many continue flogging a dead horse hoping one day for that big break. 

 

I saw 4 bands on Sunday night. The last two of them were musically and stagewise superb, but older probably all 50 and over.

 

The first band on played songs that all sounded identical and had no life. The front man/guitarist was good with the patter. The second band were a bunch of school age teenagers who seemed to have bought a load of their classmates, who were only interested in leaping around. It was refreshing to see. The front man was funny but the musicianship was novice level.

 

I can see having an AI critique would really help some of those bands. 

 

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

How many have you been to recently? Me, not so many.

Is there? There are about 10 cover bands in the local area this weekend, but I don't see any orchestras.

 

No-one cared about the tune as long as it was Elvis playing it, it could have been anything. How did Elvis get a start, what happens if he never did?

Or are you saying that ultimately we will just end up with live mime acts, or like the abba projection thing?

Or actually I suppose, like elvis, the only people who will be able to perform are the pretty ones (similar to the national level but local). If there is no skill required to do it, then aesthetics will be the only thing that matters. Thats me out then!

 

Well it's a different audience, isn't it, and you'll often find folk either into classical or pop/rock with some in the overlap group. I really enjoyed going to the Proms!

1 orchestra can have more musos than 10 cover bands. And let's not try to compare musicianship 'cos it's not going to come out too well for the average pub rocker is it?

 

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

No-one cared about the tune as long as it was Elvis playing it, it could have been anything. How did Elvis get a start, what happens if he never did?

Or are you saying that ultimately we will just end up with live mime acts, or like the abba projection thing?

Or actually I suppose, like elvis, the only people who will be able to perform are the pretty ones (similar to the national level but local). If there is no skill required to do it, then aesthetics will be the only thing that matters. Thats me out then!

 

Nope, what I'm saying is pretty much in line with what @Ben Jamin said - live performance is, for me, where it's going to be at.

Btw Elvis sang some great songs, the point is no one remembers who wrote them, they remember him though. And it wasn't just about looks, the man could sing and he could also perform.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Al Krow

[Ben Jamin]

I'm booked to see the London Concert Orchestra soon and I'm buzzing! There will always be more local bands than orchestras - classical music takes a huge amount of coordination!

 

Neoclassical artists like Ólafur Arnalds and Hania Rani are really popular with the young folk. 

A big part of the appeal is that you can really hear the hammers, felt and pedals in Ólafur's piano - a mix of really close mics and room mics to accentuate the fact that it's a real instrument being played in a real space.
 

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Ben Jamin

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Nope, what I'm saying is pretty much in line with what @Ben Jamin said - live performance is, for me, where it's going to be at.

Btw Elvis sang some great songs, the point is no one remembers who wrote them, they remember him though. And it wasn't just about looks, the man could sing and he could also perform.

 

But to get to live performance you have to had wanted to learn in the first place. I think the oportunities are reducing for that - and the locations.

And however elvis was with a crowd, his last performance was 49 years ago, so for most people alive, he was just some historical figure.

[Al Krow]

8 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

But to get to live performance you have to had wanted to learn in the first place. I think the oportunities are reducing for that - and the locations.

 

Sure, but that's not something that started this year, it's been happening over a couple of decades already, and driven by multiple factors that preceded AI, in particular:

- decline in alcohol consumption and pubs closing down;

- the rise of video/pc/multi player gaming in popularity as an alternative to going out / heading to a nightclub.

 

[SumOne]

I would be worried if I'd trained as a mastering engineer, or was a commercial jingle/advert music maker or made background music for TV/games etc. those aren't careers that are going to be around in 10 years.

 

People making original music recordings are going to be up against more competition, but AI can also help them and there hasn't been much £ to make a living purely in recording music for a while now so I'm not sure if it'll make a huge difference. They make £ performing and merchandise, I doubt AI will make much of a dent in that.

 

Live performers haven't got much to worry about, and people that just like playing instruments have nothing to worry about. I'm not worried as someone who enjoys playing instruments with a band and pub gigging. People have had the option of just listening to recorded music at home for over a century but they still want to go out and see live music and have that human connection (all be it less so then previously). I wouldn't mind for musicians to go right back to the folk type 'turn up to a pub with an instrument and all have a sing along' stuff, everyone being part of it, I've no interest in being seen as anything special up on a stage.

Edited 10 minutes ago by SumOne

[SumOne]

I wonder if people had similar discussions when the self-playing 'pianola' was invented.