Very low tunings...

[Cameronj279]

Long story short after a fairly long time not playing live and having not recorded anything in about 8 years I'll be recording shortly and (hopefully) gigging again soon. 

 

Previously I have been in bands that always played in standard tuning (BEADG for me but not using the B string much) and these bands have always been more on the RHCP side of things so fairly easy to cut through the mix. 

 

This band however tunes in Drop A but with a lower E string below it so I'm tuning in EAEAD. Using a Dingwall NG2 for this so scale length isn't an issue thankfully. Ive got a fairly decent tone for cutting through set up but would love to hear advice from others who have more experience playing in these (quite frankly absurd) tunings! 

 

Should say as well, gear wise I just put everything through a Quad Cortex.

[Russ]

39 minutes ago, Cameronj279 said:

Long story short after a fairly long time not playing live and having not recorded anything in about 8 years I'll be recording shortly and (hopefully) gigging again soon. 

 

Previously I have been in bands that always played in standard tuning (BEADG for me but not using the B string much) and these bands have always been more on the RHCP side of things so fairly easy to cut through the mix. 

 

This band however tunes in Drop A but with a lower E string below it so I'm tuning in EAEAD. Using a Dingwall NG2 for this so scale length isn't an issue thankfully. Ive got a fairly decent tone for cutting through set up but would love to hear advice from others who have more experience playing in these (quite frankly absurd) tunings! 

 

Should say as well, gear wise I just put everything through a Quad Cortex.

Honestly, this sort of tuning only really works through a direct-to-PA solution like running it through a QC or other modeller, as it's the only sort of system that can come close to doing justice to notes that low, and that's only if the PA is running multiple 15s/18s with loads and loads of power. Most regular bass amps, no matter how much power they have and the size of the speakers, tend to roll off below 40HZ (E1) anyway. If you go down to E0 (20Hz) there's no bass amp out there that will come close, unless you're using servo speakers or other such tech. Properly EQ'd, a regular low E will sound fuller and clearer than using a string tuned an octave lower. The exception to this would be if you played the string up around the 12th fret, which gives you the regular E1, but with that thick tubbiness you only get when you play in that position. 

[Downunderwonder]

Either do it an active up, and still have no 40hz audible, or revert standard 4 banger ( with no 40hz audible ), and punch the mix in the guts.

[BigRedX]

If the band is tuning that low the guitarists will already have most of the bass frequencies covered. Got some bass pedals for some additional bottom end and then unleash your inner Peter Hook on the bass guitar!

[Dood]

It sounds counter-intuitive, but, my advice is to not concentrate on the lows or sub frequencies any lower than a good B (i.e. don't boost 30hz willy-nilly). In fact, on stage, it clears the mix up if they aren't there (or are carefully controlled if they need to be). Yes, it is true that most on-stage speaker systems can't handle the fundamentals anyway, so why put them through the stress of trying. 

 

The funny thing about frequencies is what we believe to be there when they are not - and to take advantage of that. Case in point, We have all enjoyed monsterously chunky guitar riffs that sound deeper than satan's codpiece - but, when solo'd in the mix, the low end is often shaved off 100hz or higher purposely. 

 

For us bassists tuning low (I've tuned to E0, my 7 string is currently tuned to F#) , I have had no issues with using standard backline taking in to consideration the above. TL/DR:- Know that there is more weight - or 'girth' as folk like to call it in the 80-160hz region for bass guitar - for obvious reasons and that's where I start carving my bass tone. You don't need a 24dB/Oct High Pass Filter on the lows if you are careful, but it can help. Start at 30hz and work up until the beef tightens up a bit. Next, there's a balance between what your bass needs to sound full and what the mix dictates. I wouldn't want a wimpy bass tone, but, we can't all fight for the same area of the frequency spectrum in the mix (and this is also where the decision is made about who gets the the higher crossover point, or sitting forward in the mix - the guitarists shaving away their lows to make way for a fatter bass tone, or, the guitars taking the lion's share and the bass is relegated to unison lines and a more underpinning role. Think Karnivool versus Alterbridge as examples. 

Back to bass again - and, remember the mids! I'd use band-pass distortion to add energy and life to the midrange to cut through where needed and, as I have said a million times before, I am a huge fan of parallel compression, more specifically upward compression to create a big 'bed' of sound that kinda acts like the smoothing compressive qualities of distorted guitars. (to help them blend) - If you have access to Parallax by Neural DSP, it uses a well known studio method for bass that entails compressing the low frequencies and treating the higher (driven) frequencies separately. Coincidentally a video from either Produce Like A Pro (Warren Huart) or one of the online academies came up on my feed again discussing this very method recently. - You can either go in hard on the QC with this or leave it to front of house.

Funnily, even though Billy Sheehan doesn't tune low, his method of splitting the bass signal in to 3 isn't far off this idea, but many other bassists have split their signal between different amps for example to straddle the low end support and still being able to be heard in the mix. Duff McKagan has recorded using both a bass amp and plugging in to a guitar amp for the mid range and top end bite. Dug Pinnick's tone is another option. There's lots of low end in there, but his more aggressive top end (easily attainable with the Tech21 DP pedal) will help your pitch clarity come through. I'm also thinking about awesome bands like Vola or Gojira for their bass tones here too.

 

Anyway, as you have one, the great thing about the QC is that you can do this virtually with almost limitless amp combinations! 

 

Finally, I suppose another /TLDR is that a down-tuned instrument sounds down-tuned. Doesn't it? Drop D on a bass just has a different tone. It still sounds drop tuned on an iPhone speaker, and given the amount of people who can't tell there's nothing below 100hz coming out of one of those... 

 

 

/sorry if this is a ramble, I'm half asleep still.. 

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dood

[Dood]

Oh, nearly forgot to mention, the NG2's aggressive tone is great for low tuning, even if you don't go specifcally for a "Nolly" tone. Coincidentally, my own pickup choices aren't a million miles away from Nolly's to gain the same results. Bite when needed but enough "punch" in the low end without becoming pillowy and unstable. 

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

It’d be interesting to hear your version of mustang sally . 

This tuning is going far beyond beard twitching territory. If I was in a gigging band with a 5 string ( bead) ,I’d be a little put out  as more often than not  Low B is supposedly enough to deal with lower range of vocals etc . Your vocalist must sound like a dying dog .

Having said that, I do like the Warwick vampyre tuning for some reason but it would seem to have very ltd purpose , unless I was in a gigging death metal band etc .

Speaking of Warwick vampyre it doesn’t seem to be  available anywhere anymore . Maybe lack of demand or price ?

 

The other thing I was wondering is , how many  4 string basses are available down tuned as standard ?