Best bang for 'my' buck active PA/monitor cab(s)

[Downunderwonder]

All I know about fancy schmancy actives is local sound co has a fleet of the OP ones so I heard them a few times. They sound F N good to me. Mostly I am asking them to be turned down a bit. I helped them load out once so I can say they are light enough.

 

Since OP can't point to lacking anything I can now be sure this has been a gas exorcism.

[Al Krow]

On 27/09/2023 at 15:04, warwickhunt said:

My situation - Play bass and sing harmonies in several (loud) bands and play acoustic guitar in a quiet duo.  I own various bass rigs but I'm wanting to move away from that weight/load and I've tried/failed the IEM route, so a good quality active speaker mounted on a stand at the side of the stage will be my rig and the same speaker could do the acoustic duo as FOH (2 might be overkill).  I'm presently using an RCF310 (I have 4 in total that I bought as a package) which is working fine but I feel I'd like to take the next step up.  

 

My shortlist is QSC 12.2 or RCF 732/932 but I'd not be averse to a similar quality 10" but I feel that to get the best from the vocalist in the duo a 3" compression driver would be best (don't know of a 10" driver + 3" CD).  

 

Am I missing anything (manufacturer or series/spec by QSC RCF) by focusing on these 2 options and/or could I get away with a lower spec version of the above (inc 10")?

 

I could buy a single of the above new, so that is my budget but I'm inclined to look for used as that's just the way I'm wired.    

 

Was interested to understand what led you to giving up on the IEM route / why they didn't work for you? This is the path I'm looking to encourage our band to go down - and if there are issues or problems that you found couldn't be solved be good to hear in case it's the same for a couple of them too.

[warwickhunt]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Was interested to understand what led you to giving up on the IEM route / why they didn't work for you? This is the path I'm looking to encourage our band to go down - and if there are issues or problems that you found couldn't be solved be good to hear in case it's the same for a couple of them too.

 

First off I'll just warn of my initial absolute chew on getting a clean, undistorted 'bass' tone through my IE.  I tried Linsoul KZ10 from Behringer P2 wired to Aux out, KZ's into Rolls PM381 wired to Aux, KZ's via wireless to Aux out, I tried Hifi headphones via all routes which established it was a desk / output issue!  I'm under the impression there was some guitar set-up/architecture under the channel I was input to... just a heads up for that. 

 

As to why I didn't get on with IE themselves.  Several things, each of equal importance.  

 

1. I could never get comfortable with the fit of the 3 types I tried (KZ's + the guitarists 2 sets) and they always felt like a vigorous movement of my head would have them out.  I did try various size and material of bud but all 3 sets felt like they weren't far enough in my ear.  

2. The IE never inserted sufficiently to get good isolation, hence I had a lot of drum bleed which necessitated me tweaking/increasing the IE volume... which never felt right.  

 

To both of the above I could have gone custom moulded IEM but the cost given #3 didn't seem worth the risk.

 

3. With IE seated at their best and me not moving my head (difficult as I also sing), I could get them to work OK but I felt isolated from the whole playing experience!  Obviously I've had 44 years of playing bass live and the whole sound stage (inc audience) is around you, the IE took away that spatial sound... I suppose a bit like sitting in a room listening to something you get the reflections and room acoustics but with headphones on it is very 'immediate'!  

 

Plenty of people have no issue with #3 but it was plain odd for me.

[Al Krow]

Cheers for that. 

 

#2 I'm actually thinking of working with a line up with electronic drums and guitarist losing his amp and going straight into the desk via a decent pedal board / multifx set up (Russ is going to be amused to hear me say that!) Probably means getting a new drummer and guitarist in the process, but they do say change is as good as a rest 😅

[warwickhunt]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers for that. 

 

#2 I'm actually thinking of working with a line up with electronic drums and guitarist losing his amp and going straight into the desk via a decent pedal board / multifx set up (Russ is going to be amused to hear me say that!) Probably means getting a new drummer and guitarist in the process, but they do say change is as good as a rest 😅

 

Our guitarist hasn't used backline in almost 10 years.  Initially he used a monitor (as did I, to hear him), then he went IE, hence trying to convince me.  Drummer used headphones to hear us when we experimented with my IE but he much prefers me putting a monitor on a stand and firing it diagonally back/sideways to the stage.  

 

[warwickhunt]

I did an A/B comparison with my RCF310 and the QSC K10 (first series) at a couple of gigs this weekend.  Stand mounted at the side of the stage, angled across/back.  

 

Volume - no discernible difference at all, at regular volume with both monitors turned to 100% (volume set via Aux Send).  I'm sure if I needed to increase the volume, the QSC would better the RCF BUT at regular volume no benefit having 1000w over 350w.  

 

Tone - 'subjective' with the vocals, guitar and bass mixed and coming through, I thought the QSC was less harsh and I could detect nuances in the sound better.  The RCF was 'fine' but seemed to pierce on higher frequencies.  We did experiment playing program music through them and we all agreed the QSC was the winner though the RCF was absolutely adequate.  The QSC was more balanced and I'll use the term 'sweeter'.  

 

I was always able to tell which monitor was in use, which was/is the deciding factor for going for the QSCs.

 

Note - I had someone swap the lead every couple of songs and I repositioned the monitors for the second sets (swapping stands), so that 'if' I was off axis it was relevant for both. 

[Owen]

Interesting and useful. Could you EQ the send to the RCF and save some $$$$? I am sure the onboard processing in the QSC is more complete, but you have outboard EQ, no?

 

Obv, don't let me stand in the way of buying new kit!

[warwickhunt]

I had the QSC set 'flat' via the presets and the sound out of the desk was EQd to sound good with the RCF, which I had been using.  My outboard EQ via the Fishman and the Sansamp was set pretty much flat with the Fishman HPF taking out the lows and the Sansamp giving a smidgen of drive.  I also checked the Aux EQ and we had that set for my previous amp and cab set up, which had the lows rolling off from 100hz down over.  

 

I maybe could tweak the RCF further but then what would I have GAS for next?    

[Owen]

Just now, warwickhunt said:

I maybe could tweak the RCF further but then what would I have GAS for next?    

I know, I know. I am sorry.

[casapete]

On 30/09/2023 at 12:52, warwickhunt said:

With IE seated at their best and me not moving my head (difficult as I also sing), I could get them to work OK but I felt isolated from the whole playing experience!  Obviously I've had 44 years of playing bass live and the whole sound stage (inc audience) is around you, the IE took away that spatial sound... I suppose a bit like sitting in a room listening to something you get the reflections and room acoustics but with headphones on it is very 'immediate'!  

 

Plenty of people have no issue with #3 but it was plain odd for me

This is exactly how I feel about using IEMs. The rest of my band shifted over to them, so onstage it’s just me

( with my wedge monitor) who hears everything going on in the room. They tried setting up an ambient mike

to feed into their IE’s but gave it up after a while. I can’t do with the ‘immediate’ sound either and dislike the way

onstage communication has been reduced to lip reading! I appreciate it’s a bit of the ‘old dog new tricks’

thing, but I’ve lost count of the time we’ve spent at soundchecks when there have been IEM problems to

sort ( interference, channels changing etc). My old db technologies active 350w wedge will probably see

me out. 😆

[warwickhunt]

1 hour ago, casapete said:

This is exactly how I feel about using IEMs. The rest of my band shifted over to them, so onstage it’s just me

( with my wedge monitor) who hears everything going on in the room. They tried setting up an ambient mike

to feed into their IE’s but gave it up after a while. I can’t do with the ‘immediate’ sound either and dislike the way

onstage communication has been reduced to lip reading! I appreciate it’s a bit of the ‘old dog new tricks’

thing, but I’ve lost count of the time we’ve spent at soundchecks when there have been IEM problems to

sort ( interference, channels changing etc). My old db technologies active 350w wedge will probably see

me out. 😆

 

re communication with the band live.  If you have one person who needs to stage direct/call songs etc, you can get a talkback pedal which in effect when pressed gives a signal direct to the desk outs 'except' for FOH which is muted.  Only downside is if you don't want the audience to hear, you'd need to mute this going to any live monitors (easily done).