New BassChat 8"Cab design

[rwillett]

The cabs are stackable so relieving the stress on my two slipped discs 😁

[Stub Mandrel]

15 hours ago, rwillett said:

Finally got the top coat on and the other bits attached to the speaker. It's basically finished. As it's basically black, there's not a lot of detail that can be seen on camera.

 

 

The Gnome goes on the top or at the back

 

 

 

 

You can see the rails here for front and back with the grab handles

 

 

Here's the grill attached

 

 

 

It definitely has a chunky Lego or kids toy vibe to it  

 

That's one down, I need to mull on the lessons learnt and then do Cabinet #2.

 

Rob

 

 

Congratulations! Looks good.

 

How does it sound?

 

 

[rwillett]

It sounds very good. Lots of midrange tone and very loud.

 

I suspect I need to spend some time with it to work out the sound I like the best.

Rob

[rwillett]

16 hours ago, Richard R said:

Why do you need a second cab? Or is that the sort of question one shouldn't ask...?

In a more serious vein, a second cab allows me to keep one connected in my "office" and one I can take out easily to jam with. I hate undoing all the connections and redoing them each time.

[rwillett]

Not sure if I should even post this here... It might offend some people so I've hidden this below. If you are easily offended, then don't look. You can't say you haven't been warned  

 

Spoiler

Just plugged a Telecaster into the 8" cab and had 15 minutes of playing with that. The neck pickup is a bit muddy, but I can fix that. 

 

I turned the bass down a little, perhaps 10 o clock but the mid and treble EQ were left at 12:00, gain was at 09:00 and it was great. I'd have zero issues playing a guitar with this in place. 

 

I've got a Laney LC15R as well downstairs and if the jam session goes ahead tonight, I'll take both and see how it all sounds. I am seriously tempted to get a small valve head for this amp as well as the Gnome just to see how it all sounds.

 

Caution: I have no idea what I'm talking about and other people may disagree. 

 

[Chienmortbb]

26 minutes ago, rwillett said:

Not sure if I should even post this here... It might offend some people so I've hidden this below. If you are easily offended, then don't look. You can't say you haven't been warned  

 

  Hide contents

Just plugged a Telecaster into the 8" cab and had 15 minutes of playing with that. The neck pickup is a bit muddy, but I can fix that. 

 

I turned the bass down a little, perhaps 10 o clock but the mid and treble EQ were left at 12:00, gain was at 09:00 and it was great. I'd have zero issues playing a guitar with this in place. 

 

I've got a Laney LC15R as well downstairs and if the jam session goes ahead tonight, I'll take both and see how it all sounds. I am seriously tempted to get a small valve head for this amp as well as the Gnome just to see how it all sounds.

 

Caution: I have no idea what I'm talking about and other people may disagree. 

 

Spoiler

As T*l*s go, I like it, providing no one puts the bridge pickup through a Fender twin. 

 

[Richard R]

@rwillettHere be dragons, and worse: 

 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/forum/99-guitar-amplifiers/

 

 

[rwillett]

11 minutes ago, Richard R said:

@rwillettHere be dragons, and worse: 

 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/forum/99-guitar-amplifiers/

 

 

 

Thanks for that. I had forgotten about that section, looks like the last time it was touched was nearly ten years ago

 

I've plugged the Tele in, will plug the active Strat (heresy on heresy) in later and just have a play. The 8" cab is (to my ears) a very good cab for both guitars and basses. I would like to say it's my playing but I'm not that stupid (or egoistical).

 

Rob

[Richard R]

https://www.guitarchat.co.uk/forum/15-amps-and-cabs/

 

GuitarChat is more current, but I just searched this site first, I didn't check how old the posts were.

Edited Thursday at 16:41 by Richard R

[rwillett]

The more I played, the more i liked the cab. 

 

The Gnome (which is technically a bass amp) suits it very well for both bass and guitar. I don't have any experience with other small amps so can't comment on the Elf but suspect it would be equally nice.
 

Putting a bass through it, no compression or any pedals sounded great. The gain on the Gnome does make a big difference. It's far better than my Ampeg practise amp RB-108 but it's about twice the price in parts alone with the Gnome. 
 

I'll put some pedals on it as well as try it with some modellers, a Tonex and a Mod Dwarf. I'd like to get the Gnome set up with as flat a respective as I can. If I put a microphone into a Mac and ran Audacity would that be a good way to check the frequency response or would there be other recommended ways. 
 

It's great to have the Gnome attached on the top or the back as it's basically a small but loud combo. Hopefully a small and decent quality speakon cable will be coming soon.
 

I showed it to the other half and she said how small but perfectly formed it was. The children (19 and 16 so not really children) thought it looked like Lego as well. Definitely a plus. 
 

Rob

[Phil Starr]

I'm so pleased that you like it. I've used mine at rehearsals with a moderate drummer and a Gnome sitting on top. With a second cab you should be able to gig with most bands.

 

I hope other people are inspired by you to give it a go. Well done Rob

[rwillett]

All the credit should go to all the people who did this before me. I didn't do anything clever but just followed other people and make my own mistakes. 

There's an awful lot of help here, freely given, for how to make it and make it work well. You don't need lots and lots of specialist tools, it can help, but a lot of people have found cheap and easy ways to do it. (That's a compliment BTW).

 

I will be doing a second cab, and it will be made slightly differently as I have learnt what works and what doesn't. I may list all my mistakes so you can learn from them, but that might require a lot longer thread.

 

For anybody who is thinking of building one, do it. Enormous satisfaction at the end which is nice, but you also get a good insight into what's needed. If I can do it anybody can.

 

Rob

 

 

[Obrienp]

I have all the bits, except the plywood ready to go for a 12" cab. Unfortunately, illness over the last few months has prevented me from doing anything. I don't have the wherewithal to accurately cut the ply, so I am looking for a local supplier that can do it. My local B&Q doesn't but having seen the quality of the ply they sell, I wouldn't want to use them anyway.

 

Congratulations @rwillett. I found your journey very inspiring. I might eventually get round to building the cab after all!

Edited Friday at 13:13 by Obrienp

[rwillett]

2 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

I have all the bits, except the plywood ready to go for a 12" cab. Unfortunately, illness over the last few months has prevented me from doing anything. I don't have the wherewithal to accurately cut the ply, so I am looking for a local supplier that can do it. My local B&Q doesn't but having seen the quality of the ply they sell, I wouldn't want to use them anyway.

 

Congratulations @rwillett. I found your journey very inspiring. I might eventually get round to building the cab after all!

Perhaps somebody on Basschat is local to you who can help with the cutting? My knowledge of the East Anglia area is zilch so can't comment.

 

One option might be to clamp or screw down a length of straight wood on the inside of where the cut should be and to slowly cut through with a hand saw. That's how it used to be done anyway. If you go off the edge, at least it's on the waste side of the wood. That's one of the most difficult bits, the others (to me anyway) are cutting the large hole for the speaker and the port hole. I used a cheap trim router, but it could be done using a small hand saw. I am very happy to print you off the port pipe for nothing and post it down. If you are concerned about making a mess the speaker hole, I can also print you a little cover for the edges to hide any mistakes, that's the thing below. Its amazing what you can hide if you try hard enough

 

There may be other options that people can suggest. If you were closer, you;d be welcome to come round and do it here or take some tools off to try.

Rob

[Stub Mandrel]

20 hours ago, Obrienp said:

having seen the quality of the ply they sel

 

They sell different grades if you poke around you can find the type and quality you need.

[LawrenceH]

43 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

They sell different grades if you poke around you can find the type and quality you need.

Where's that then? I've never seen decent plywood in any of ours. I'd like to find a source that's somewhere between far-eastern poplar-core with loads of voids and super expensive birch from Sydenhams

[Stub Mandrel]

They do softwood, marine, hardwood with birch or oak facing.

 

The marine stuff has no voids.

[tauzero]

23 hours ago, Obrienp said:

I have all the bits, except the plywood ready to go for a 12" cab. Unfortunately, illness over the last few months has prevented me from doing anything. I don't have the wherewithal to accurately cut the ply, so I am looking for a local supplier that can do it. My local B&Q doesn't but having seen the quality of the ply they sell, I wouldn't want to use them anyway.

 

Congratulations @rwillett. I found your journey very inspiring. I might eventually get round to building the cab after all!

 

If you have a circular saw, you could make a saw sled. I did that for my build which is currently stalled due to doing it outdoors.

 

 

[Chienmortbb]

2 hours ago, LawrenceH said:

Where's that then? I've never seen decent plywood in any of ours. I'd like to find a source that's somewhere between far-eastern poplar-core with loads of voids and super expensive birch from Sydenhams

I am sure @Phil Starr will be along to add his experience to the void (sorry). As I remember he was planning to use the Eucalyptus faced Poplar cored ply from Jewsons. 
 

The prototype is a cube and from memory made from 15mm birch. Add that to the 5Kg plus of the drive and it is quite heavy for its size. Using a poplar core would approximately half the weight of the cabinet 
 

I also seem to remember a conversation about the number of cores being just as important as the thickness. When we were discussing this, the options for Italian Poplar were 7 or 12 ply on 15mm thickness with the 12 ply being much better. 

[rwillett]

2 hours ago, tauzero said:

... My build which is currently stalled due to doing it outdoors

Been there, done that, got the frostbite....

[Phil Starr]

As far as I know B&Q only do one grade of hardwood ply. It's usually got one good side and one where the knots and voids are patched on the outer veneer. It's good enough for a speaker that is to be painted or vinyl covered but subject to a bit of splintering if your saw blades are a bit dull.

 

Wickes do a better range of plies, though sadly they have stopped doing their marine ply. Saying that I haven't visited them for a couple of years as I have quite a lot of ply in stock. Mine is currently from a batch Jewsons got in just before covid described as Poplar but actually Chinese sourced and made from two varieties of 'Eucalyptus' only one of which is actually Eucalyptus sp. The thing to understand is that the English names aren't strictly defined, you need the latin names to be sure what you have. So Poplar isn't always Populus sp and neither is Birch always Betula sp. When you are looking at species that grow in China they have no English name, so they can call them what they want. A lot of Russian 'birch' was exported from Kaliningrad so became Baltic birch.

 

You can't even rely upon counting the plies as a test of quality, generally it is quicker and cheaper to fabricate fewer plies but if the wood is poor then they might take thinner plies. It's a bit like choosing a wine on the basis of the dimple in the bottom of the bottle.

[Bassybert]

So basically then @Phil Starr, it doesn’t matter half as much as people think it does as it’s a bit of a lottery, and as long as it looks fairly well made with no obvious voids and the veneers aren’t paper thin, than you should be ok?

Edited 18 hours ago by Bassybert

[Stub Mandrel]

I have a very similar project happening soon. It's actually an aquarium hood from 8mm ply though...

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, Bassybert said:

So basically then @Phil Starr, it doesn’t matter half as much as people think it does as it’s a bit of a lottery, and as long as it looks fairly well made with no obvious voids and the veneers aren’t paper thin, than you should be ok?

I suppose I'm saying there is something in between. which is probably not particularly helpful  The main thing that you want from a bass cab is that it is rigid and strong and as airtight as you can get it. In this case the cab is going to be portable so it would ideally be lightweight and tough enough to take knocks along the way. Already you have to compromise, lightweight timbers are almost always softer than those with more densely packed fibres so even in an ideal world there are choices to be made and probably no simple 'right' answer. Plywood is a man made material, there are lots of variables in it's manufacture. The species you use for the plies can vary and wood itself is a variable product between trees and even within a single tree there can be variation in the wood. Then you have variations in how the wood is handled and the resins and glues used to bind the plies together. There are British standards for the glues used and the resistance of the cores (based upon European Standards) and grading for the quality of the face veneers A-D commonly B-BB where B is the best face but not perfect and BB is meant for the inner surface often with small patches but still good enough to take a paint finish. The last ply I bought from B&Q was graded B-BB.

 

The thing is there is such variation most of us won't try to specify. Often the better grades are only available in large qualtities so you aren't going to be able to specify. I have some block board in front of me with tropical hardwood (FSC) outer veneers 1.8mm thick. Three 8x4 sheets cost me an arm and a leg and had to be supplied by my timber merchant as part of a much larger order. These were for some furniture btw not for cabs. The reality is that unless you want to spend a fortune and hours searching you are pretty much stuck with the ply supplied by the big sheds. If you buy hardwood ply which is grede 2 or 3 (exterior grades) then you are going to get a reasonable quality product. I've got mine from Wickes over the years as I can go in and sort out the best sheets in the pile. If you look along the cut edges you can see if there are a lot of voids and if the edges are separating or splintering. Honestly I doubt if you would really hear much difference in the completed cab. I know a couple of people here who have made a cab with softwood ply I shudder to think about it, but they built a cab that worked.

 

So my advice is to buy the best ply you can find, be aware of the gradings but don't agonise if the choice is down to take it or leave it, you can still build a great cab. Probably the lower grade is ging to affect the finish more than the sound of the cab.