Clarity - damn those mids

[Boodang]

Most bass rigs don't do well below 100hz, you'll often see -9db or more at 41hz. So although mids will cut through the mix more, boosting the bass on most rigs isn't very efficient.

I've started using a rig with a dedicated sub, but as it's the Mackie DLM it's smaller than most rigs anyway. I find I get a cleaner sound this way and need less mids to be heard.

Of course, if you're going thru a bigger PA you're at the mercy of the FOH engineer but if they're any good they should be able to give you a non growl sound that can be heard. Although for that you have to give the FOH a di that they can work with and is sympathetic to the PA setup. 

[fleabag]

We are our own FOH engineers. Well, not me personally, but one of the gitards. I'm certainly in the camp of bassists that dont wind up the low EQ.  I usually cut that

 

The PA is active with a pair 12" subs.  Also i dont play with a pick.  I've tried but hated it.

[DGBass]

On 11/02/2023 at 10:32, fleabag said:

I can never get a clean sound by increasing the mids. So whats the answer ? 

I've never been a fan of the low mids are where its at thinking and have theories about where that saying originated. That being said and not wanting to court extreme controversy, its a fact in my experience boosting them gets you heard out front. But not always appreciated. And it might sound naff on stage. I've tried similar experiments at rehearshals and usually the band comment on the growly and sometimes farty sounding low mid honk that results. For the most part I boost low frequencies and scoop the lowish mids for an old school clean thump as it suits the classic rock covers we do. I've often had folk come up to me and say after a gig that the bass was just barely audible but more than anything they could feel it coming up through their bar stools and see it rattling the glasses on the table. That apparently i'm told is not so common these days amongst pub and club bands. Tales of growly and prominent bass tone that carries little weight seem to be common nowadays. Perhaps thats a symptom of modern times where we've all never had so much choice with lightweight gear and tone shaping devices to tweak the most from our setups. Everyone obsessing over the 'T'  word and how they sound when how the bass feels in a live situation to an audience and sits in the overall mix might matter more? Most people in an audience don't care about how the bass sounds and care even less about bass rigs. They do notice more if they can feel the bass and/or dance to it - imho.

I use a single large folder horn cab with a big reasonably decent excursion driver and a reasonably powerful amp. The band have a 2k largely vocal pa with some acoustic and kick drum through it so our amps are doing all the backline. The bass works the low end of the spectrum and I boost between 60-180hz, flat by about 340hz and then cut anything above that except for a little boost around 2khz to add a nice click to my flatwounds. Granted, i'm using a lot of power just to keep that sort of sound clean but it works well with a P-bass which has just enough natural mid content to still be heard. Also and importantly it leaves a clear sonic slice of the spectrum for the guitarists who dont boost any bass frequencies on their setups at all. It works well. With a proper PA support, I have to back off my usual low end settings a lot because it upsets the sound engineers when so much low end is coming off the stage.

So whats the answer? Well there probably is no easy answer and its all a sonic compromise. Maybe its time to dust off the old Trace elliot 1518 full range cabs, get back to feeling the bass and be able to boost lower frequencies knowing the cab won't complain because it can take whatever we throw at it. The natural mid tone of the bass can then surf on top of a silky smooth and clean low end wave without so much as a growl being heard. And if one (1518) cab isn't loud enough or struggling to cope then get two as is often advised on BC😉 You'll also need some accesories for that kind of solution eg a van and optionally a roadie! You will sound great though and growly low mids will be a thing of the past unless you choose to have them. 

[fleabag]

11 minutes ago, DGBass said:

 Maybe its time to dust off the old Trace elliot 1518 full range cabs

 

And if one (1518) cab isn't loud enough or struggling to cope then get two as is often advised on BC😉

 

Answer 1 :  You're having a laugh , i know.  Not with my facked hips 

 

Answer 2 : I'm not using on stage cabs

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by fleabag

[DGBass]

36 minutes ago, fleabag said:

 

Answer 1 :  You're having a laugh , i know. 

 

Answer 2 : I'm not using on stage cabs

 

Yes of course I am to an extent 🙂 and its only my experience of gigging. I can't recall ever doing any gig without a backline of some sort, maybe only ever in a recording situation where I was DI'd and that was all down to EQ set by the recording engineer. In those cases a good tone through the monitoring cans was never a consideration. A third person to the band ( the engineer ) had the final say on what sounded good and a monitor tone was all that was needed through the headphones to do the gig. In those cases I put my faith in someone else to decide where the bass and mids were in the mix.   

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by DGBass
.

[fleabag]

Well, i dare say that my Barefaced 4x10 would be better than just having a monitor,  but i'm really only concerned with the out front sound.

 

On stage sound is mostly irrelevant

So if the sound through the monitor without a cab is lacking / bland / naff  its ok.  AS long as out front sounds good, job done

 

Also, i'm the only person that decides my out front sound

[DGBass]

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

Also, i'm the only person that decides my out front sound

Yes same here and onstage sound is also to an extent irrelevant for me as I (choose to) wear strong ear protectors because of the high spl in my corner. The bass onstage is more feel than what any mids might be doing or can be heard doing. I guess i'm lucky to have been using the same basses and cab for nearly nine years and that's allowed me to fine tune 'a sound' i'm happy is doing the job out front for me and doesn't distract the rest of the band or have the audience gritting their teeth. I've recently ordered a wireless transmitter so I can go out front and check what the bass sound like at a distance. That was mainly because I changed just one item in my signal chain recently and despite me thinking it was EQ'd the same as before, it didnt sound the same. Different kit, different tone. It was an unintentional over abundance of mids that caused the problem. I might be pleasantly surprised or deeply shocked at what I hear out front when I get to use my wireless setup although I hope its the former. And here's hoping the wireless doesn't change anything either. If it does sound naff out front, then I'm sure someone in the band will be happy to twiddle a few settings for me. They're all a helpful bunch in that respect🙂

[fleabag]

I too use wireless -  a Line 6 Relay G75, so i can bimble about out front and check stuff. Also means i can check the gitards volume 

 

 

[musicbassman]

8 hours ago, fleabag said:

Also means i can check the gitards volume 

Well, @fleabag, we bass players can 'check' a gitards volume, but that doesn't mean we can do anything about it.

We are about as powerless over gitards as any other regulatory authority, like those that control the energy or water industries.

So, instead of Ofwat, maybe could be called Offvol.

We could send the gitard a strongly worded letter about excessive volume after the soundcheck, that'll show 'em ..........

[Downunderwonder]

21 minutes ago, musicbassman said:

, @fleabag, we bass players can 'check' a gitards volume, but that doesn't mean we can do anything about it.

It does if the guitarist has an increment of team player like the guy in my little story a few posts back. High passing his acoustic was no issue at all. Of course that makes him not a guitard but neither are the ones in OP's band from the sound of it.

[Lozz196]

@DGBass, your description of how your bass is felt not heard is great, I used to love going to see bands where the bassist had a sound like that.

[fleabag]

1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

It does if the guitarist has an increment of team player like the guy in my little story a few posts back. High passing his acoustic was no issue at all. Of course that makes him not a guitard but neither are the ones in OP's band from the sound of it.

 

We often have to ask the lead git to turn up a bit.  He's no racous axe murderer

[Downunderwonder]

Just now, fleabag said:

 

We often have to ask the lead git to turn up a bit.  He's no racous axe murderer

It's one of the few rewards for becoming an older git,  getting to play with a better class of gitarist.