The non Rock'n'Roll bassist...

[zbd1960]

Rather than piggybacking onto the threads of others, I thought I really ought to create my own about my own musical journey.

 

For bass, I'm in the local Rock School franchise playing with the adult learners group. I have a lesson one week and the jam session alternate weeks. Bit of a hiatus with lessons due to tutor being on paternity leave... but he's back this week.

 

I already know all about GAS - you're talking to someone who is into astronomy, hi-fi, photography... before we get to music and I have two viols, 2 cellos, 4 saxes, and currently 4 (soon to be 5) basses...

 

I've been able to read music (bass and treble clef) since I was about 12. The viols mean I have to read alto and octave treble clef; cello means I have to read tenor clef as well.I've got G6 theory and I'd like to get G8 done.

 

I started singing lessons in my 30s and have sung in various sizes of choir since then. I have performed in probably several hundred concerts over the years. Some have been major concerts in big concert halls. I've performed at Philharmonic Hall (Liverpool), Bridgewater Hall (Manchester), Symphony Hall (Birmingham), Royal Albert Hall (London). I've also sung in about two dozen of the UK's cathedrals.

 

I'm not in a choir at the moment as I'm retraining to sing tenor instead of baritone - I hope to join a group in the autumn.

 

I started cello and sax in 2011. I joined local community music groups straightaway as I know how important playing with others is. I'm working on G6 for sax and my teacher says I'm around G7 on cello. Currently, I play cello in two orchestras. For sax I'm struggling to find a wind band near enough that meets on a usuable day that doesn't conflict with other things. I do play sax in a small ensemble which I run, but it only meets once a month.

 

Although I bought my Fender back in 2016, I really struggled to find a teacher I got on with and it was only just before lockdown hit that I found someone I got on with. It's not that I'm difficult (honest! 🤣) but a lot of people who put themselves out to teach beginner bass players find I start asking questions they can't answer...   

 

The pic is me and my cello a couple of weeks ago at my first concert since late 2019... The orchestral part of the programme was the suite from Peer Gynt (Grieg) and a medley from Lady be Good (Gershwin).

 

A bit different from the Blitzkrieg Bop at Rock School...     

 

Edited September 29 by zbd1960
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[zbd1960]

I usually got to some sort of music summer school for a week each year. In recent years it's been either a mixed one where I've played both cello and sax, or one where I've played just cello in orchestras, or choral ones. This year I'm looking at booking onto a cello summer school - probably the one in Oxford.

 

Which got me thinking... are there summer schools that anyone knows of where you have a mix of teaching and playing for bass? I'm assuming some sort of summer school version of Rock School?  

 

 

[uk_lefty]

You're on a very interesting musical journey! I wouldn't know about schools of the sort you mention if Google hasn't turned any up then I guess if it does exist at all it's very hard to find. 

 

I would suggest you track down via YouTube or instagram etc. players you like, who play the kids of music you want to learn and come across as personable. A lot may offer private lessons 1-1 which is great because then you can set out what you want to work on and get their input. Some absolute top players offer lessons. From my own experience I saw that Nathan King (pro guitarist and bassist who does the Andertons bass demos) was offering lessons during lockdown. A single 1-1 1hr lesson with him helped me re focus on what I needed to learn in order to progress my playing. 

[Happy Jack]

Retraining as a tenor instead of a baritone?

 

I've been a baritone for the last 50 years and I had no idea that was an option. 🦄

[zbd1960]

3 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Retraining as a tenor instead of a baritone?

 

I've been a baritone for the last 50 years and I had no idea that was an option. 🦄

It's due to the nature of my voice - not something you would usually do. When I started having lessons back in the early 90s I was told I was a light baritone. I've always been able to hit tops Ds, Es quite hard and no real problems getting to F and F#. My voice was reasonably resonant down to the C on the 2nd space of the bass clef, and even OK down to A, by bottom F#/F we're on or off with no control over them. If I did intensive singing like a week's summer school, I'd be able to sing down to Eb. If I did a music workshop and got asked to dep as a 2nd tenor (baritones often are) my voice would tire quickly. 

 

In 2019 I had an assessment on a specialist course with a well-known vocal coach that trains opera singers. He put me through a lot of exercises and told me that baritones don't sing Ds and Es the way I do, nor F, F#, G, G#.... he had me singing up to top C and told me I was really a 1st tenor.

 

So, why did I tire trying to sing the lower 2nd tenor part? Because I was trying to sing it as a baritone and 'push' with too much weight in the voice and this brings in all sorts of muscles and locks on the voice which tire it.

 

Why was I assessed as a baritone? Men's voices don't fully settle until around age 35 and I was 33 and my voice was probably had not completely settled.

 

So I found a local (well 35 miles away) teacher. He's an operatic tenor, who originally trained as a baritone at RNCM and encountered the same issue as me, just rather younger as he's only in his 40s now. So i've been learning to unlock my upper voice and to 'let go' of the way I used to sing as a baritone. It involves getting rid of a lot of learnt involuntary habits.   

Edited May 31, 2022 by zbd1960

[Crusoe]

Astronomy, hi-fi, photography... you really don't like having money, do you? 😄

[zbd1960]

1 hour ago, Crusoe said:

Astronomy, hi-fi, photography... you really don't like having money, do you? 😄

You noticed 🤣

 

The hi-fi used to be the most expensive thing.... currently it's the saxes...

[ubit]

Good for you mate. That sounds like a very fulfilling musical journey you have been on and are still on. I too sing but I have no idea what bracket I fall into as I only sing rock and country type music. I can get quite high but my comfort is pretty low. I have been told I am quite decent but I realise that I can be quite good in a small pond and if I was to venture into a bigger pond I might flounder. So the local pub scene  is my lot.

[bass_dinger]

This is the musicianship that I aspire to - reading the dots, and understanding timing too.

 

I probably started too late, and did not have lessons.  

 

However, I do enjoy sight-reading music on YouTube videos.

[zbd1960]

26 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

This is the musicianship that I aspire to - reading the dots, and understanding timing too.

 

I probably started too late, and did not have lessons.  

 

However, I do enjoy sight-reading music on YouTube videos.

It's never too late. Something I picked up from when I started singing is the importance of playing/performing with others. My singing teacher had me singing in a choir in a few months. When I got my cello and sax back in 2011, I joined a community orchestra straightaway. Community orchestras are almost always short of bass players. If you want to get to grips with reading and playing from staff notation, then playing the bass part in an orchestra is a way forward (and yes the community group I was in had both an electric bass and a DB on that part). Such groups tend to play a lot of film music.      

[bass_dinger]

That's helpful to know.  

 

I play in a church band, and previously, a ukulele band, both on bass.   Certainly, playing with others helps improve one's ear, timing and sensitivity to the playing of bandmates.

 

However, a lot of the music is improvised, with nothing written down, apart from chord charts.  It seems to me that I need to develop my ability to read music.   

 

Do you have any advice, or hints?

      

[zbd1960]

42 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

That's helpful to know.  

 

I play in a church band, and previously, a ukulele band, both on bass.   Certainly, playing with others helps improve one's ear, timing and sensitivity to the playing of bandmates.

 

However, a lot of the music is improvised, with nothing written down, apart from chord charts.  It seems to me that I need to develop my ability to read music.   

 

Do you have any advice, or hints?

      

This comes up in the sax world as well where players are also split between readers and ears...

 

You have to be patient and accept that it's like learning to read - you start off with 'Janet and John', not Shakespeare. A useful technique is to download the score from a site such as IMSLP for an orchestral work, play a recording and follow a line in the score (bass/cello in this case). Acquire the ability to follow the line and listening for it as well. That will get you used to reading and following. 

 

My singing teacher would just put stuff in front of me and say 'sing that'. If you want to get better at reading, you just have to get on and do it. Find some easy stuff, and take it slowly until you can get it right, then speed it up, until eventually playing it at the correct tempo. 

[zbd1960]

Today was the regular monthly sax ensemble meeting. We're widely scattered: Shropshire, North Wales, Liverpool, Lancashire... so we meet in a village hall near Manchester airport as it's just about equally inconvenient for all of us. We should be an octet of two each on soprano, alto, tenor, and baritone saxes.

 

Somehow I end up running the group and leading it. Partly it's because I have the most experience of performing in groups plus I've had some training in conducting. We were down to five today so instead of me bringing baritone I had to bring alto and tenor, but as it turned out I just played tenor today.

 

Whilst we would like to play the odd gig, we know that it's difficult with only meeting once a month. We play an eclectic mix and I throw in some renaissance music, which is good for sight-reading practice. Why do I use renaissance music? Being polyphony, no one line dominates on the tune - each line is independent. This also means you don't have the 'vertical' harmony that people are used to with 'tune and accompaniment'. It means you have to count and be brave and play your part.

 

The renaissance piece we did today was a pavan (a slowish dance) by the English composer Holborne which he published in 1599.  

 

 

  

A galliard is a much faster dance, which includes leaps/jumps. Might be a while before we do the Fairie Round (in thei video they've simplified the time sig to 6/8 it should be 6/4).

 

 

[zbd1960]

Dowland's "Frog Galliard" played on a lute. Teh rolling score is in staff and English/French lute tablature (the letter indicates which fret - 'a' is open, b is first fret etc.). Note the use of flags to indicate rhythm. Tuning of a standard 6 course renaissance lute is the same as a tenor viol: GCFADG - two octaves from the G on the bottom line of bass clef. 

 

 

[zbd1960]

The weekend started with a chamber orchestra rehearsal on Friday where I play cello. This group meets alternate weeks. We're doing a suite by Delibes "Le roi s'amuse" and the movements are based around renaissance dance forms. One movement has a 4/2 time signature, which is pretty common with renaissance music (four minims to a bar). It's a quickish piece so the conductor decided she'd beat it in two, which in effect makes the time signature 2/1 - two semi-breves to a bar... the crotchets are quite short...  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by zbd1960

[zbd1960]

Bit slow to update this... tonight will be the last rehearsal this term of my Monday evening orchestra. I play cello there and we're looking at Schubert Symphony No. 5, which is ideal for a small chamber orchestra like this. 

 

Last Friday was Chester rehearsal and the last before our short concert on 8th July.

 

Last week's bass playing was a double hit. First it was Rock School, which includes a jam session at the end, followed by a one-to-one lesson. I know some people will think me weird, but I find playing from lyric sheets really hard going - there's not enough information on there for me as I'm used to reading notation.  

[zbd1960]

I ordered a new block of Melos dark rosin for my cello from Caswells Strings. The pack cannot be more than about 75mm perhaps 100mm square and weighing less than 100g? It's been sent by DPD? Why on earth...

 

hmmm... maybe it is RM as that's what the invoice says, but the dispatch notice says DPD... Maybe it's Schrödinger's Rosin and both will arrive but it can only be in one.... 

Edited June 30, 2022 by zbd1960

[zbd1960]

Finally booked myself onto a music summer school for this year. I'm hoping it means the bass will get an outing. IT's a course that has multiple options. Most courses for orchestral instruments you're in one main group for most of the week e.g. symphony orchestra. This one on cello I'll be playing chamber music, string orchestra, and chamber orchestra. On bari sax I'll do wind ensemble, and either bass or bari sax for big band (hoping bass). 

 

With a cello, baritone sax, and a bass in the car, there won't be room for luggage...

[dclaassen]

I’ve taught school music for 41 years, play pretty much all the wind instruments, and my preferred type of music is Western swing, but I am really enjoying playing with the group of guys in the rock band. I would not mind doing pit work or big band jazz either.

[zbd1960]

Amongst the eclectic (read 'weird') selection of instruments I play is the viola da gamba aka the viol. The three main instruments are the treble, tenor, and bass. There is the violone which is the double bass member of the family (and it is in fact the instrument DB are derived from). Viols are descended from the vihuela, which is also the ancestor of the guitar. 

 

Viols have 6 strings and are tuned in 4ths, apart from one pair which are a 3rd.... Sound familiar? Confusingly, the 3rd is not the same pair of strings as on a guitar...

 

The tenor's tuning (well, standard tuning - there are others) two octaves starting the G on the bottom line of the bass clef: GCFADG. The instrument is fretted, but the frets are tied on by hand using lengths of fret gut (off-cuts of strings basically). You have to push them up and down the neck to tune them.

 

The tenor viol uses the alto clef (C3) for notation, the same as the viola. Obviously, it goes into treble clef for higher pitched stuff.

 

Anyway, the reason for this post is I've not played it for ages and I've decided it needs new strings. It takes gut strings (you cannot use metal string, the neck would snap). In the past I've used fancy mineral loaded gut strings for the lower strings etc. but I've gone for standard strings this time. The bottom two (5 and 6) are metal wound. For 4 I'm using gut with a single wire that spirals around the string. For 1, 2, and 3 plain gut. That's £120. Unlike modern cello strings, gut do not last. If playing regularly, the top string will go false, or snap, within a few months. That one is about £10. String 2 is also prone to snapping. The other strings are less likely to snap but tend to go 'false' i.e. the intonation goes out and it's not in tune with itself.

 

Strings should be here next week, so I'll post photos of me tying the strings to the tail piece and close-ups of the strings. There will then follow immense pain whilst the tuning attempts to stabilise, which will not be helped by variable humidity. Gut unlike metal 'breathes' and it absorbs or releases water vapour as the humidity varies. This affects the mass per unit length of the string which alters the tuning. It can take several hours for the strings to reach equilibrium during which time you will be re-tuning every 5 or 10 minutes.      

Edited July 16, 2022 by zbd1960

[bass_dinger]

For £120 a set, you should not be attaching the strings to the instrument - you should be framing them!

 

Fascinating post - I look forward to seeing the photos of the instrument. 

[zbd1960]

8 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

For £120 a set, you should not be attaching the strings to the instrument - you should be framing them!

 

Fascinating post - I look forward to seeing the photos of the instrument. 

The strings on my cello cost £300 a set and they're not even the most expensive you can get but 'average' 😭. Fortunately, only the A string is likely to need regular replacement and they're about £35... it's the lower strings which are painfully expensive

[zbd1960]

The viol strings should arrive today... Viol string generally do not have a loop on them, so you have to tie your own loop into the end of the string to fix the string to the tailpiece. One thing I am not looking forward to is re-tuning the frets, which will probably involve replacing a few as well. Frets on viols and lutes are not fixed like they are on guitars, they're lengths of gut that you tie onto the neck - there's a special way of tying them on known as a 'fret knot'. I'll document this further later and I'll see if I can find a useful YT link.  

 

As I wrote in the neck relief thread, the cello was not keen on the very hot weather. The instrument is kept most of the time in its Hiscox case and usually the tuning is very stable. My strings are a mix of Larson and Spirocore. Essentially they have a steel core and a 'tape' that's wound around them making for a nice smooth string. With the heat, the strings stretched and everything went very flat (about 15/20 cents).

 

I checked the tuning in the cooler weather yesterday and as expected it had now gone sharp, but only by about 5 cents. I suspect it will move a bit more as the environment 'normalises'.     

[zbd1960]

OK - a series of posts about re-stringing a tenor viol (aka viola da gamba). The tenor viol in terms of pitch sits half-way between a modern cello and viola, with its lowest string being the G on the bottom of the bass clef. Strings are sold (generally) by their diameter and tension and inconveniently are not labelled as say "Tenor Viol string 6 - G", but at "2.50mm". This is because the same stirng might be used for stringing a lute, or another size of viol. You can end up making mistakes... which I will come to later.

 

So, postie delivered a package of 6 new strings yesterday.

 

  

 

 

 

As you can see you don't get much help beyond "plain gut 0.62mm" - that's the top G string. 

 

Here's today's patient:

 

 

 

String #1, the top G, has snapped. The other strings are old and certainly number 2, 3, and 4 are very likely to snap when I tune it up. Gut strings, even heavy gauge ones will snap. There is a type used for low strings known as 'catline' which are plaited like a rope. They're much more robust, but their thick and you have to drill out the holes in the tailpiece...

 

Here's the peg box:

 

 

 

And the tailpiece

 

 

 

Unlike guitars which have machine heads on the tuners, you have to wind a decent length of the string onto the peg. As you can see from the tailpiece, the bottom two strings have a loop provided on the string, the rest don't: you have to create your own - more on that later....  

Edited September 29 by zbd1960
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[zbd1960]

There are a few things to think about when changing the strings, unlike a guitar, you cannot just remove all the strings as you risk the sound post falling over (same as with a violin). So you have to change one at a time. The new strings are coiled. You have to be careful handling them - you have to avoid putting a kink in the string as it will just snap at that point either as soon as you tune it up, or at some point later. Even if it doesn't snap, it will make the string sound 'false', i.e. it will not be in tune with itself - intonation will be off.

 

I started the re-stringing at the bottom with string #6, the low G. This is a metal wound string with a gut core. The metal wounds strings have a loop, which simplifies matters. I used a pair of pliers to put a bend in the last few cm of the string to make it easier to get it into the tailpiece.

 

 

 

You then carefully pull the string through then pass the end through the loop and tighten. It's not an issue with wire wound string, but with the plain gut ones, you have to be careful not to abrade the string on the hole in the tailpiece. Before going further, I use a soft 2B pencil to lubricate the bridge and nut string slots. The graphite in the pencil works quite well as a lubricant to stop the string catching.

 

 

 

 

 

I can then pull the string through the loop and move onto the pain of winding it onto the peg...  

 

 

Edited September 29 by zbd1960
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