Tone Chasing

[BassAdder60]

4 minutes ago, Waddycall said:

If I want to thicken up my pick sound without tweaking anything I do some light palm muting as I play. 

Yep I do that too on some songs where I don’t need the notes to sustain. Works well on a PBass 

[BassAdder60]

Tone update … band rehearsal showed me that my pick tone just didn’t come close enough to my finger tone to warrant a change 

Flesh wins over plastic for me !

[lownote]

1 hour ago, BassAdder27 said:

Flesh wins over plastic for me !

Should find it's way into the BC quotes page

[BassAdder60]

I’m back on this tone challenge and I’m on occasions happy finger style but then sometimes pick.

 

I can do both equally as bad !! Or good I guess so it’s more of best tone with the band. 
 

I now use mostly my CTM100 head and it works well with the picked PBass 

Found I needed better EQ so added the MXR preamp and for faster compressor the Keeley Bassist 

I would say that’s the best I can make it sound using a pick. 
 

Note definition is better and less boomy and even removing some mids it’s nice and punchy 

[WishICouldWalk]

If you're playing certain songs with a pick because you're hitting a limitation in your fingerstyle then putting the time in to overcome that limitation is probably the way to go in the long term as you'll be taking your overall level up a notch. Easier said than done though 🙂

[Soledad]

On 13/05/2022 at 16:27, Osiris said:

 Not all plectrums sound the same - I find that the thinner the plectrum, the thinner the bass tone is.

And conversely, the thicker your plectrum the thicker your tone.

 

Absolutely, and vital.

Picks can do things fingers can't  - it may be in the detail but there are styles where picks rule (punk being an obvious one).

If you want the fat sound - fingers, But if you want the precise attack and clarity - a decent pick cannot be beaten.

And there are some runs that are un-doable with fingers (some Phil Lynott for example, or Chelsea Dagger).

OK, someone will tell me otherwise, but listen to fast picking - it's all in the pitch focus and attack. The fact you hear he's playing with a pick (Immediately) says it all.

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 13/05/2022 at 17:27, Osiris said:

My experience over the years of playing with both fingers and a plectrum is that to get a similar tone when switching between the 2 techniques is to use a thicker plectrum. For me, a 2.0mm plectrum retains the depth of tone you get from playing with fingers but has some extra bite in the high end. 

 

Not all plectrums sound the same - I find that the thinner the plectrum, the thinner the bass tone is.

And conversely, the thicker your plectrum the thicker your tone. 

 

In my experience anything under 1.0mm just makes the bass sound thinner and more guitar like. For year I used 1.5mm which have more tonal weight than anything under 1.0mm, but once I'd tried 2.0mm I  knew I'd found the balance that works when switching between the 2 techniques without losing the depth and weight of the bass tone. 

 

These are my current go to plectrum, virtually impossible to drop and they don't suck any low end from your sound. 

Jim Dunlop 450P2.00 Prime Grip Delrin 500 Picks, 2 mm

 

Different pick material sounds different too, beyond the mere thickness and flexibility, Nylon picks for example will sound much warmer than Tortex.

 

In fact the material the pick is made of has a quite substantial effect on the tone you get out of it as said beyond mere thickness/gauge and flexibility.

 

As for what OP speaks about, yes, I can definitely obtain a fuller more rich and complex tone using fingers than pick (I am personally not into really deep, fundamental dominated bass tones, and not what I am speaking of here either, I don't dig in deep, I sort of merely stroke the strings, rather than striking or plucking them really), but I actually think wanting to make pick sound like finger playing is kind of missing the point, I for one actually also love that aggressive snappy emphasis on the attack unique to pick playing, that you simply really can't get with your fingers.

 

I do however find it a big challenge to dial in a base tone that works optimally for both finger and pick playing, in fact simply impossible, and I if one tries it will always end up resulting in a compromise, making neither approach really sound it's absolute best (I know cover players really don't have that luxury of being able to pick (pun actually not intended) one over the other, but in that case I've found that generally adding more compression, but with a relatively long attack time to let the full transient of the pick attack through (to emphasize the attack, rather than attenuate it), and drive helps with getting a better pick tone). 

 

My main point though being that if I use a pick it is because I want it to sound like I am using a pick, if i use my fingers it is because I want it to sound like I am using my fingers.

 

And trying to make either sound like the other is bound to end up with a less satisfactory, far less than optimal/ideal, result. 

 

At the moment, personally, fingers win, but as said I do love that specific tone that you can only get by using a pick too.

 

 

Also a warning: Don't buy rubber picks (and yes, I have tried several different gauges and hardness/flexibility grades) in an attempt to make your picking sound like finger playing, it will give you absolutely all the worst qualities of pick playing, with non of the actual advantages of pick playing, and all the absolute worst aspects of finger playing, but with non of the advantages of finger playing, and it'll really sound nothing like neither, but very much like absolute donkey donkey (not to be confused with the David Bowie album "Hunky Dory"), just completely and utter rubbish (pun fully intended), if you ask me.

 

 

Edit/Update!: 

 

I've changed my opinion on rubber picks, and now my go to picks, when not using my fingers, is a Dunlop Tortex .60mm and a Wedgie Soft 3.1mm rubber pick. depending.

 

As said it sound neither quite like a pick, or like fingers, which I guess was what put me up at first, but it does have got its own unique kind of tone going on for it, with a more mellow roundness to it, that I've come to like for some stuff

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

I’m finding the very best tone I can get is using Dunlop Delrin Primegrip 2mm picks 

 

These are the black ones and have a fuller sound compared to Ultex or Toretex 

 

Using the Keeley Bassist Comp. is helping too adding a depth to the tone when pick playing 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by BassAdder60

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

I’m finding the very best tone I can get is using Dunlop Delrin Primegrip 2mm picks 

 

These are the black ones and have a fuller sound compared to Ultex or Toretex 

 

 

A 2mm Nylon one would be even warmer sounding.

 

Tortex and even more so Ultex is pretty bright and clicky sounding.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

8 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

A 2mm Nylon one would be even warmer sounding.

 

Tortex and even more so Ultex is pretty bright and clicky sounding.

 

I’ve tried Nylon too and yes very warm sounding but not as robust as Delrin. 
 

I have the Big Stubby ( nylon ) in 2mm but the tip is too pointed for me 
 

After using triangle picks going to the smaller Delrin 500 Primegrip was a challenge but the grip keeps in place and the size allows for faster picking 

Edited April 5, 2023 by BassAdder60

[JellyKnees]

Interesting discussion. As an almost exclusively fingerstyle player since forever, I've recently started using a pick regularly for the first time in about 30 years as I'm currently playing in a 3 piece post punk-esque band (with a couple of guys I also haven't played with for 30 years!), and I needed a bass sound that is fairly aggressive and will cut through the mix - think JJ Burnel Raven era, gritty but not quite as full on at his early sound. Tone wise, there is no way I could get that sound with my fingers.

 

So far, I'm finding that a .88 or 1.00 mm tortex pick is giving me the right balance between playability and tone. Any thinner, and the sound is too thin, any thicker and it becomes hard to play fast 16th type runs with precision and it looses that bite that I'm after. I'm running my ACG bass through a Bassrig Super Vintage preamp, pushed just past the edge of breakup with some bass rolled off, into a cheap TC electronic BQ250 head set flat, and I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting - punchy and bright with just enough clank - it sounds spot on in the mix.

Edited April 6, 2023 by JellyKnees

[BassAdder60]

44 minutes ago, JellyKnees said:

Interesting discussion. As an almost exclusively fingerstyle player since forever, I've recently started using a pick regularly for the first time in about 30 years as I'm currently playing in a 3 piece post punk-esque band (with a couple of guys I also haven't played with for 30 years!), and I needed a bass sound that is fairly aggressive and will cut through the mix - think JJ Burnel Raven era, gritty but not quite as full on at his early sound. Tone wise, there is no way I could get that sound with my fingers.

 

So far, I'm finding that a .88 or 1.00 mm tortex pick is giving me the right balance between playability and tone. Any thinner, and the sound is too thin, any thicker and it becomes hard to play fast 16th type runs with precision and it looses that bite that I'm after. I'm running my ACG bass through a Bassrig Super Vintage preamp, pushed just past the edge of breakup with some bass rolled off, into a cheap TC electronic BQ250 head set flat, and I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting - punchy and bright with just enough clank - it sounds spot on in the mix.

I’m the same .. played for years never ever considering a pick even though before bass I also played guitar to a decent standard using a pick.

Having returned to the bass about four years ago I just found my finger tone was getting lost especially in certain rock covers. 
Playing with a pick has created a better sound for myself and the band and I found after trying many pick types that 2mm Delrin Prime Grip ( black ) just worked very well. Gator picks in same gauge were close but still not as good.

And now we can enjoy palm muting 🤟

[Soledad]

20 hours ago, BassAdder60 said:

And now we can enjoy palm muting 🤟

👍 absolutely. I have eternal huge respect for Jamerson and love his playing and that sound, BUT there is a place for pick playing (maybe a few places!) and @JellyKnees is dead right - for some band setups and many tracks the pick sound is (IMHO) vital. And you get palm muting which is a very fine thing indeed, in the right places of course.

It's the eternal debate (like best flats, best O/D pedal, P v J....) but I honestly believe a good versatile bass player needs fingers and pick to a decent standard.

[iconic]

https://www.jimdunlop.com/max-grip-nylon-standard-pick-1-5mm/

 

I find the Dunlop Max Grips (thicker than this pictured) very good indeed😎

Edited April 8, 2023 by iconic